SteveS55

Good point, Romansh, I went to a food truck once for a delicious cheese burger. The sign on the side said "Our cows are vegetarian, so you don't have to be!" Apparently vegetarians have little compassion for "vegetation". It's always been a personal choice, and not particularly a "spiritual" one if you consider the nature of our existence and how we must survive. Some creatures just don't do well on a vegetarian diet. Steve

Hi Soma I agree with what you have said here. Our individual paths are only known in retrospect. What seems in each discreet moment in time to have been a series of well thought-out, or compulsive choices, are seen in retrospect as an unconscious, timeless movement toward maturity, or self-actualization. To move away from that natural process, and many do, is destructive. So, perhaps the appropriate lesson is not to get in our own way and let it happen. The hard part, in my opinion, is to resolve the paradox of being and non-being – existence and non-existence. I think this is our main existential problem; the thing that most thoughtful people worry about. It is something very few of us ever resolve, but I’m not sure it is all that important. Steve

"Every morning when you wake up you pray Thy Will Be Done, just as Jesus did. Then you let it happen." Fatherman, Your statement may sound simplistic to some, but it is extremely profound. The point is not to presume to know God's will, but to merely let it happen.C.S. Lewis said that prayer didn't change God, it changed him. To relax into it and "let it happen" is the key to happiness, at least in my opinion. Glad you are still with us. Your opinions are just as valuable, and valued, as anyone here. Steve

That the people who normally post on this forum can be a little rough there can be no doubt. There is an old adage that says "avoid those who are vexatious to the spirit". So, I think it's perfectly okay to leave the field when vexed! Of course, this runs the risk of attracting less diversity of opinion. I'm just say'in. Steve

Intelligence, wisdom and compassion were never meant to be mutually exclusive, either in Christianity, or any other tradition, including secular humanism. If you have all three, count your blessings, because it is rare. Intelligence gets you to the "ground" which is the door. Wisdom and compassion are learned through the path of love or suffering. Steve

I would say that the alcoholic's problem has more to do with the ego than the will. And, recovery from alcoholism has more to do with dissolving the ego/self than anything else. Reading the Twelve Steps will point this out very nicely. While we possess something we like to call "will", it is not free in the sense that we can do anything we want (or imagine). We are all limited by genetics, cultural conditioning, parenting, and so on, not to mention just existing in the human realm. I would argue that the potential (genetic predisposition) alcoholic, who then manifests their alcoholism, might also recover due to other genetic predispositions not yet accounted for. While it is fairly common to hear a recovering alcoholic say "I was always an alcoholic", they are only "potential" alcoholics until they drink. I once asked a physician in AA why he thought some people recover and some people don't. He told me the only thing he could come up with was "grace". I think he meant karma. Without all the necessary knowledge to say exactly why this is, I suppose that's as good an explanation as any! Steve

We live in a post-Christian age, and have been doing so for some time. The appealing thing about some Eastern traditions, like Buddhism, is that you don't have to be a Buddhist to be Buddhist. On the other hand, you have to be a Christian to be Christian. Steve

"There is no path to truth and there are not two truths. Truth is not of the past or of the present- it is timeless - and the man who quotes the truth of the Buddha, of Shankara, of the Christ, or who merely repeats what I am saying, will not find truth because repetition is not truth: repetition is a lie. Truth is a state of being which arises when the mind -which seeks to divide, to be exclusive, which can only think in terms of results, of achievement - has come to an end. Only then will there be truth. The mind that is making effort, disciplining itself in order to achieve an end, cannot know truth because the end is its own projection and the pursuit of the projection, however noble, is a form of self-worship. He alone shall know truth who is not seeking, who is not striving, who is not trying to achieve a result." - J. Krishnamurti, Collected Works, Vol. VI,134

Thanks for posting those articles, apex. The Wikipedia article mentions that one's "worldview" is conditioned by beliefs and values we take as axioms, that we argue "from". I think that's what makes beliefs so intractable; they are axiomatic and lay the foundation for a worldview that can only change when one experiences cognitive dissonance. I remember studying Leon Festinger's theory of cognitive dissonance in college. I thought it was fascinating then and it still rings true today. So, I personally think it's beneficial to examine all of our beliefs from time to time in light of new information. Honestly, I think one can be perfectly happy with absolutely no beliefs at all, although I don't know if that's possible. It seems to me that otherwise, we will always be troubled by our cognitive dissonance. Steve

Well, the stronger the opinion, the greater the disagreement! Steve

Hi fatherman, I think beliefs are artifacts of unconscious habitual mental tendencies. They are empty in themselves, but are constructed to protect us against the unknown. While we think we are aware ofour conscious beliefs, and that they are accurate, we can't say for sure. We don't know if what we state as a belief is what we believe unconsciously, since much of that was planted early in our lives. So, I think beliefs are a product of memories of the past. There is an old expression that says: "There aren't any atheists in foxholes". If that's true, what does the atheist truly "believe" to make him/her pray in a tight spot? Does it even matter, since there is no evidence either way? Steve

I agree, romansh. I think our beliefs have both a conscious and unconscious component, and that the beliefs we have about ourselves, others, and our unique vision of reality are mainly of the unconscious variety. Steve

"What is particularly disturbing about this anti-intellectual trend is that members of these fundamentalist groups hold views with implications that are dangerous and destructive for our civilization, for our nation, for world peace, and for human rights and freedoms. [ed. note: We will expand on this particular issue in a subsequent article.]" In case we haven't noticed by now, there are a lot of "destructive" ideas and concepts in the world. On a scale of 1 to 10, I would rate the "fundamentalist threat" at a 1 or 2 at most! We are all deluded, it's just a matter of the degree of our delusion. Steve

It seems to me that the question of whether or not our existence is illusory has been somewhat popularized in the West. It is an Eastern notion related to the ideas of impermanence and non-self, but it is also a realization that comes to very few of us. In the meantime this “illusion” is very persistent. It also has the characteristic of being “sensate”, meaning that just because existence is illusory, doesn’t mean we don’t experience it as physical sensation. As long as we are human, we will experience these physical, mental and psychological sensations, many of which are painful. To try and tell ourselves that all of this is “merely” an illusion does nothing to alleviate the suffering that is pervasive in the world. Peace. Steve

I was first introduced to meditation 29 years ago when I got sober in AA. There is sometimes a lot of other stuff that goes on with an alcoholic, such as depression, anxiety, etc. In a twelve step program, meditation is the eleventh step, and I think there is a reason for that. There is quite a bit of preliminary work prior to engaging in a solid meditation practice, namely, the first ten steps! In contemplative Christianity, these preliminary steps could be referred to as the "purgation stage" (purification practices in Buddhism). Along with my work in that program, I was in therapy for the first six years of my sobriety and only after did I begin a serious meditation practice. I guess my point is that there are many things that can be adjunctive to our mental health. Probably just one thing isn't going to do the trick for some of us. The other thing is that it can take a very long time for some of us to "get well". That usually doesn't go over well with people I share that with. Everyone wants the quick fix and to feel good all the time and right away. But, at least in my case it didn't work that way. The trick is to stay motivated over time and realize that time is illusory anyway, so it doesn't really matter how long it takes. Now, it seems to me that I've always been emotionally/spiritually healthy, and everything in the past was merely a dream. Peace. Steve

I'm pretty much in agreement with Joseph on this one, fatherman. However, I don't think dropping belief systems necessarily leads to doubt and uncertainty, just the ineffable. The problem with belief systems is that they are mainly conceptual, and the real meaning of whatever we are trying to understand is not contained within them. Not only am I trying to drop all of my belief systems I'm trying to "drop the mind" as well! But, I do still believe in coffee! Steve

"Religion is a defense against the experience of God".............gotta love that one!

If I'm reading you correctly, Mike, you are asking if Christianity, specifically by exemplifying the life of Christ, is the only way to experience "God" (whatever is meant by that). Sometimes fear holds us in place when we might move forward in our spiritual evolution. But, the spiritual path is kind to the courageous, and if one develops wisdom and compassion along the way, then there is nothing to worry about. If one's path does not lead to at least these two manifestations, then it is probably not worth the effort. Christianity, while not being the "only" way, is certainly on solid footing as one of the ways. We are all very much culturally determined in our particular belief systems. If you were living in India, you might be a Hindu, chanting the "one thousand names of God" and wondering whether or not that was the only way. I think we need to find "God" in the moment, and that moment encompasses all of our personal history, psychological development, cultural determinants, and religious beliefs, among many other factors. Best of luck with your dilemma! Steve

Hi Mike, I think this is one of those problematic passages in the NT that is subject to a wide variety of interpretations. Ruling out a literal meaning, we are left with metaphor. In terms of Christian contemplative language, Jesus was in the "unitive state" with his Father (God, we presume). I would also say he had dissolved the ego, except for his "survival ego", of course. There is also a non-dualistic perspective implied here. The question then, is how can any or all of us attain to this state. If one thinks it is by following the path of Christ, I guess they can't go too far afield. Some Christians say that Christ's life is "recapitulated" within all of us; how Christ's life went, so will ours. If that's the case, then it is only a matter of relaxing into a state of primordial union. Steve

Very well said, fatherman. I could say more, but I'll just leave it at that. Steve

Hi Deva, I think it's great that you have recovered your faith. Although, I would suggest that your faith has been there all along. Most people don't distinguish between "faith" and "belief", but I think they are two separate things. I think faith is what guides us to Truth, wherever that might be found, and that path is different for everyone. It's difficult for a Western Christian to "convert" to Buddhism, or any Eastern tradition for that matter. There are so many cultural and linguistic differences. Like me, you are probably a "cultural" Christian, not a "cultural" Buddhist. Even the Dalai Lama suggests that a person should work within the framework of their own cultural traditions, rather than trying to sack it all and convert to something completely new. Best of luck with your "new" faith. Peace, Steve

I recently came across a quotation from Bro. David Steindl-Rast about the practice of “silence”. Steindl-Rast is a Catholic Benedictine monk, who has also studied and practiced Buddhism with Zen masters. He is therefore a contemplative, and as such he practices silence. Here is the quote: "When chant music stops, sometimes quite abruptly, an audible silence reverberates ... This silence is not merely sound's absence, but a mysterious presence, the immense nothingness that is our origin and our home. If we listen carefully, we discover that when all is said and done, chant inducts us into this silence that is the ground of our being." - David Steindl-Rast If you have ever engaged in chanting, as a practice, you will recognize the experience of what he calls “an audible silence”. It is within this silence he claims that the “ground of our being” is to be experienced. But, rather than referring to this silence as “immense nothingness”, I would call it “emptiness and cognizance”, a term used in some schools of Buddhism. In this context, “emptiness” is a synonym for the “ineffable”. To be cognizant or aware of the ineffable is to experience, in a non-conceptual manner, the “ground of being” which has become popular in some Christian circles as another name for “God”, or the “Absolute”. Whatever you decide to call it, the point is that it is an understanding beyond the intellect, which is more akin to “realization” or “intuition”. At the same time, a certain amount of intellectual work is required to become completely aware of how this process works. Chanting is not the only way one can become aware of this experience. Music and singing can also lead to this realization. In these cases, silence is implicit in the melody, it being the brief interval between notes or chords. There could be no music without these intervals of silence. The interchange of sound and silence is perhaps what allows us to “feel good” when we hear our favorite song. In meditation it is sometimes possible to become aware of the “space” between our thoughts. Within this space, one can also become cognizant of the “immense nothingness/emptiness” of our true nature. For most of us, these experiences are fleeting at best. The purpose of these practices is to continually bring our awareness back to the primordial state of our original nature, which again is called “emptiness and cognizance”. In time, we may come to recognize this state more and more and, ultimately, “live” in this state. And, to live in this state is what many might call “enlightenment”, “nirvana”, or the “kingdom of heaven”. Peace, Steve

I know you are a fan of Meister Eckhart, Soma. I love this quote from him in Sermon 87: "While I yet stood in my first cause, I had no God and was my own cause: then I wanted nothing and desired nothing, for I was bare being and the knower of myself in the enjoyment of truth. Then I wanted myself and wanted no other thing: what I wanted I was and what I was I wanted, and thus I was free of God and all things. But when I left my free will behind and received my created being, then I had a God. For before there were creatures, God was not 'God': He was That which He was. But when creatures came into existence and received their created being, then God was not 'God' in Himself - He was 'God' in creatures." Peace. Steve

Hello Barb, I think many Christians are confused by the distinction between "Jesus", the man, and "Christ" as meaning the union of the divine Logos with human nature. Most Christians are taught to believe that Jesus is the second person of the trinity and therefore equal in stature to God. But, other Christians see it a bit differently. These Christians understand Jesus as a representative of this union (Christ), and in fact, theologically speaking, this was the thinking of some of the early Church Fathers responsible for the development of Christian doctrine, and the real understanding of the Incarnation. This view was ultimately rejected, mainly I think, because the "common folk", as the faithful were regarded, wanted a savior and messiah - something a bit more "special". Whether or not this was Jesus' understanding of himself, no one will ever know. My guess is that he realized a union with his "Father" (God), (as Romansh mentioned in his post) and that was about as far as he went. In any case, everyone is free to believe what they want, but not because everyone else does or because they don't consider you a Christian if you don't. This is just a different perspective for your consideration. Peace. Steve

I'm with you on this, Angelo. I see diversity everywhere, and I have no reason to believe that we are all "one". We are all diverse. "Oneness" is a nice idea that reminds us that we are all made up of the same basic stuff, and we should treat each other accordingly. I don't see that idea going very far though, in our day to day dealings with one another. People pretty much live in disregard of that idea most of the time. I have no reason to believe that things were not always diverse, and will not continue to be so. I think we are culturally conditioned to believe that we all came from a source that is "one", and eventually we will all return to that source. People call that source "God", or the "Absolute", or "Consciousness", or what have you. But it does not necessarily logically follow.....at least in my opinion! Peace. Steve