des Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 Didn't ya'll love Pat Robertson's idea to assassinate the president of Venzuela: "I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war, and I don't think any oil shipments will stop. But this man is a terrific danger, and this is in our sphere of influence, so we can't let this happen. We have the Monroe Doctrine, and we have other doctrines that we have announced, and without question, this is a dangerous enemy to our south, controlling a huge pool of oil that could hurt us very badly. We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability. We don't need another 200-billion-dollar war to get rid of one strong-arm dictator. It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with." - Pat Robertson, advocating the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez. Yep, God wants us to have his oil. Who else would Jesus like us to take out? --des Why I really dislike Onward Christian Soldiers-- some people take it LITERALLY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AletheiaRivers Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 The man is nuts! As I understand it, even fundamentalists have had it up to *here* with his comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realspiritik Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 Who else would Jesus like us to take out? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, I don't know about Jesus wanting to take out people , but I sure wish he had a pair of human hands to help me take out my recycling bin. Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cunninglily Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 Who else would Jesus like us to take out? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, I don't know about Jesus wanting to take out people , but I sure wish he had a pair of human hands to help me take out my recycling bin. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> yeah...i think he wants me to take out Johnny Depp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowperson Posted August 26, 2005 Share Posted August 26, 2005 Awwww, C'mon Lily. Little Eddie scissorhands was sooooo cute! And good ole Vince Price was his Daddy! And he could do such great topiaries and hair do's too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia Posted August 27, 2005 Share Posted August 27, 2005 I thought Brad Pitt was the obvious choice. After, y'know, how he treated poor Jen and all... LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socius Posted August 27, 2005 Share Posted August 27, 2005 It would have to be all those movie stars that are into Scientology. It will be like killing 2 birds with one stone for someone like Robertson. Not only will he fracture Scientology but he will help in the demise of Hollywood all at the same time. Now whose on that list? - John Travolta, Tom Cruise, Lisa-Marie Presley, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cunninglily Posted August 27, 2005 Share Posted August 27, 2005 Awwww, C'mon Lily. Little Eddie scissorhands was sooooo cute! And good ole Vince Price was his Daddy! And he could do such great topiaries and hair do's too! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, no! You guys misunderstood. I mean "take out" Johnny Depp...you know, for a burger or something...lol... lily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia Posted August 27, 2005 Share Posted August 27, 2005 Lily!!! Sorry! I think he's married with kids (a four year old who thought he was employed as a pirate during the filming of Pirates of the Carribean) There was an email a while back about God's Hit List.... pretty amusing. Then another asking W what to do about neighbors who disobeyed various laws from Leviticus... long hair, mixed fiber clothing, etc and how they should be killed. Of course www.Godhatesshrimp.com can't be missed. The charges against the religious right, in my opinion, will start with the huge numbers of people who look at/listen to them and are unable to consider christianity or any religion... Christianity has become a long 4-letter word to so many.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AletheiaRivers Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 (edited) We have enough votes to run the country. And when the people say, "We've had enough," we are going to take over. -- Pat Robertson, speech given to the April, 1980 "Washington for Jesus" rally, quoted from Robert Boston, The Most Dangerous Man in America, p. 29 We at the Christian Coalition are raising an army who cares. We are training people to be effective -- to be elected to school boards, to city councils, to state legislatures, and to key positions in political parties.... By the end of this decade, if we work and give and organize and train, THE CHRISTIAN COALITION WILL BE THE MOST POWERFUL POLITICAL ORGANIZATION IN AMERICA. -- Pat Robertson, in a fundraising letter, July 4, 1991 There is no such thing as separation of church and state in the Constitution. It is a lie of the Left and we are not going to take it anymore. -- Pat Robertson, address to his American Center for Law and Justice, November, 1993. We have imagined ourselves invulnerable and have been consumed by the pursuit of ... health, wealth, material pleasures and sexuality... It [terrorism] is happening because God Almighty is lifting his protection from us. -- Pat Robertson, oblivious to the statistical (and obvious) fact that no nation or group of people has ever enjoyed a higher degree of personal, political, or economic safety than the Americans enjoy today, Robertson engages the fearmongering typical of Christian preachers by blaming the Americans' lifestyles for bringing upon themselves the judgement of the God of Everlasting Mercy; this is Robertson's explanation of the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, in a three-page statement released Thursday, September 13, 2001, quoted from AANEWS #958 by American Atheists (September 14, 2001) Individual Christians are the only ones really -- and Jewish people, those who trust God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob -- are the only ones that are qualified to have the reign, because hopefully, they will be governed by God and submit to Him. -- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, January 11, 1985, defending his stance that only Christians and Jews are fit to hold public office I never said that in my life ... I never said only Christians and Jews. I never said that. -- Pat Robertson, Time magazine, after having been confronted regarding his statement on The 700 Club of January 11, 1985 When I said during my presidential bid that I would only bring Christians and Jews into the government, I hit a firestorm. "What do you mean?" the media challenged me. "You're not going to bring atheists into the government? How dare you maintain that those who believe in the Judeo-Christian values are better qualified to govern America than Hindus and Muslims?" My simple answer is, "Yes, they are." -- Pat Robertson, The New World Order, p. 218 You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist. I can love the people who hold false opinions but I don't have to be nice to them. -- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, January 14, 1991 It is interesting, that termites don't build things, and the great builders of our nation almost to a man have been Christians, because Christians have the desire to build something. He is motivated by love of man and God, so he builds. The people who have come into [our] institutions [today] are primarily termites. They are into destroying institutions that have been built by Christians, whether it is universities, governments, our own traditions, that we have.... The termites are in charge now, and that is not the way it ought to be, and the time has arrived for a godly fumigation. -- Pat Robertson, New York Magazine, August 18, 1986 The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians. -- Pat Robertson, fundraising letter, 1992 Many of those people involved with Adolph Hitler were Satanists, many of them were homosexuals -- the two things seem to go together. -- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, January 21, 1993, ignoring the facts that the Nazis killed homosexuals as ruthlessly as they did Jews and that Satanim emerged with Anton Szandor LaVey If the widespread practice of homosexuality will bring about the destruction of your nation, if it will bring about terrorist bombs, if it'll bring about earthquakes, tornadoes and possibly a meteor, it isn't necessarily something we ought to open our arms to. -- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, August 6, 1998, on the occasion of the Orlando, Florida, Gay Pride Festival 199 I would warn Orlando that you're right in the way of some serious hurricanes, and I don't think I'd be waving those flags in God's face if I were you. -- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, August 6, 1998, on the occasion of the Orlando, Florida, Gay Pride Festival 1998 How can there be peace when drunkards, drug dealers, communists, atheists, New Age worshipers of Satan, secular humanists, oppressive dictators, greedy money changers, revolutionary assassins, adulterers, and homosexuals are on top? -- Pat Robertson, The New World Order, p. 227 Just like what Nazi Germany did to the Jews, so liberal America is now doing to the evangelical Christians. It's no different. It is the same thing. It is happening all over again. It is the Democratic Congress, the liberal-based media and the homosexuals who want to destroy the Christians. Wholesale abuse and discrimination and the worst bigotry directed toward any group in America today. More terrible than anything suffered by any minority in history. -- Pat Robertson, interview with Molly Ivins, 1993. Worse than the plight of the Jews in Nazi Germany. Worse than the plight of the Natives and the African Slaves in North America. Worse than the plight of the "witches" and the "atheists" in Europe and America. Edited August 31, 2005 by AletheiaRivers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Yeesh! I knew he was a nutcase... I just had no idea he was so all-fired clear about it for so long!!!!! Where's a 72 hour hold when you need one??? (apparently in 1985) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredP Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Oh, so THAT'S why New Orleans is underwater... what with all those girls showing their breasts for beads and all. Now it all makes sense.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeInChrist Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Yep, God wants us to have his oil. This calls into question God's perfection. Why did he put American oil under everyone else's land? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowperson Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Yep, God wants us to have his oil. This calls into question God's perfection. Why did he put American oil under everyone else's land? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It just could be that our native and indigenous brothers and sisters had the answer for this. When you punch holes into mother earth's skin to take out her life's blood to burn and foul the air we breathe so that we may live faster, you are upsetting life's balances on many levels. But then, of course, that's the whole point. They also understood that NO ONE could really own the land that the Creator put there for the plants and animals and us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des Posted September 2, 2005 Author Share Posted September 2, 2005 He says such awful things, I was actually expecting something about this from him. I suppose it would make slightly more sense than most of the things he says. No I didn't say that it really made sense, just slightly more sense. It's not saying much. --des Oh, so THAT'S why New Orleans is underwater... what with all those girls showing their breasts for beads and all. Now it all makes sense.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cunninglily Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 Oh, so THAT'S why New Orleans is underwater... what with all those girls showing their breasts for beads and all. Now it all makes sense.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yup. "Sin City" has fallen. I wonder if the fundies are praising "God" for his "righteous judgement"? But forget the fundies. This catastrophe in the wake of hurricane Katrina exposes the nation, and indeed all of us. I hope that you guys are watching. lily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 Lily - the level of exposure is horrifying... but nothing most of us didn't know re: the current government. On the other hand, don't sit and watch. Do something. I spent 5 hours at my church tonight. It was the most awesome and inspiring thing I have seen in a long time. It is a big church, we are serving dinner from Wed until it is no longer needed, every night, free (good, real food) to anyone who is displaced. The church looks like a mall. Donations of food (ready to eat for other meals), clothing, toiletries, toys, etc is astonishing. Huge numbers of volunteers were there to listen, help people find clothing (volunteers sorted all the donations), play with kids, serve food, find housing, Drs writing perscriptions, money, gift cards, etc. It's the body of Christ moving hands, feet, and hearts. Target Stores are being extremely generous. Our city has over 10,000 refugees and counting... the schools are opening up, churches, civic groups, and even local government have really stepped up to help people. Personally, it is such a joy/relief/comfort to see people acting well/honorably/with interest in others. Perhaps this tragedy will serve to shake us, as a nation, out of our apathy, materialism, and self-involvement.... Lord hear our prayers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
October's Autumn Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 Did you see the "Pastor" who said GI's are dying in Iraq because they are protecting a nation that harbors homosexuals? You can interpret things anyway you want. You could say that Katrina was God's judgement against a state that persecutes homosexuals! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredP Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 This catastrophe in the wake of hurricane Katrina exposes the nation, and indeed all of us. I hope that you guys are watching. It's a vivid reality check... the depths and heights of what each of us capable of. It's so easy to feel anger towards those who have lost all humanity towards their fellow persons, but that inhumanity flows deep beneath the surface of all of us. I wouldn't necessarily call seeing it a "gift," but we should all take the opportunity to ponder it every so often. Has anybody ever read a book called Shantung Compound, by Langdon Gilkey? On the other hand, it's also healthy to ponder the charity and hope and compassion that we're capable of. And then ponder how we can be a part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cunninglily Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 Lily - the level of exposure is horrifying... but nothing most of us didn't know re: the current government. Cynthia. The poor and disenfranchised in this country were not created by our current administration. I think we need to look deeper than that. The poor in New Orleans were left behind long before this hurricane hit. And this is true of the poor in every major city in our country. Don't come to the Gulf Coast. (I'm aware that you, Cynthia, live in the South) Take a good look in your own back yards. On the other hand, don't sit and watch. Do something. I'm only asking that we not turn our eyes away. Right now the American Red Cross is deluged with offers to help. Adrenalin is running high; everyone is stirred by what they are watching on tv. But, in a week or two, when adrenalin and excitement returns to normal levels and the rest of the country is sick to death of hearing about it all, the reality will still be here. There will be plenty of opportunity to do something for a long time to come...long after the "glamour" wears off. In truth, the opportunity has always been here. It's only reached crisis porportions now. Perhaps this tragedy will serve to shake us, as a nation, out of our apathy, materialism, and self-involvement.... Lord hear our prayers. We say this everytime tragedy strikes. Everytime. I am not attacking you Cynthia, but in truth, this is often nothing more than a sentimentalism stirred by emotion...it is not sustained. I work for a wealthy woman who is a devout Catholic and "helps" with charity organizations all the time. Very active. Good Catholic. She wouldn't know what poverty is if it hit her in the face. She's oblivious. And so she "helps" with no sacrifice. "Poverty" is an idealized, romanticised "cause" that "helps" people "over there". It's not her yardman, her handyman, her housekeeper. It's never nearby or allowed to get too close. Last week her 15 year old son was allowed to purchase rims at the tune of thousands of dollars to put on his new Escalade, while those of us who work for her are struggling to pay our bills. In the last couple of months he's spent (or she's spent) over a thousand dollars to get the vehicle detailed...which amounts to very expensive car washes. I'm sorry folks, but THIS is what causes poverty in this country, not the government. Too many people feel justified in their luxuries while millions among us struggle to survive. George W. has not suffered want a day in his life, and it shows. But, he's not alone. The average wealthy American is just as guilty as he is. The rich and the powerful opened shelters in N.O. for the poor who could not leave; provided no provision, no help, nothing. They drove or flew away grumbling at the inconvenience and didn't give a seconds thought to the thousands left behind. This happens everyday. EVERY DAY. The poor are not the only hit by this hurricane. Many of the rich along the Gulf Coast have suffered staggering blows as well. We are all suffering. This hurricane has leveled the playing field and it is my hope that we all see that there is no difference between the rich and the poor when the "trappings of wealth" are rent away. The poor are not "faulty humans" and the rich are not "superior humans". We are all just human. That's all. And the innate dignity of the individual human being is worth far more than all the 'things' money can buy. That's what this country, and indeed our entire world, hasn't figured out yet. lily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 You're right lily, I wasn't suggesting a glamorous approach or a quick fix... the reality, in my eyes, is that people are pretty much just like the people written about in the old testament... they're not likely to change. Seeing the good side of people motivated by a crisis gives me some hope... I was just trying to share it. While most people will go back to their workaday lives in a few weeks, some will not. The way people are treated now will have a lasting impact on their lives in many ways. I don't have much, if any, control over the big issues. I can make sure that I cross the paths of people who need help and act in accordance with my beliefs. It's the little things that count. Ex. rims - probably seem meaningless to your employer - clearly they set a tone for the company and anything else she does.... I do think that the current government has made things much worse. I'm sure you have a better grasp of the details of this on the Gulf Coast than I do, but it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cunninglily Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 You're right lily, I wasn't suggesting a glamorous approach or a quick fix.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I know Cynthia, and I apologize. I know that I sound shrill and skewered in my views. It just frustrates hell out of me that people will not understand that it is wealth that defines poverty in this and other countries. Many of the working poor in this country are quite content with their lives; we don't necessarily want more stuff, and have made decisions to put other things as more important than the pursuit of money. But the wealthy and the too comfortable middle class keep raising the standard of living in this country to such an extent, that the rest of us can't provide for ourselves the basics without constant struggle. If the rich are willing and able to pay $3.50 for a loaf of bread then the poor have to pay $3.50 too. The difference is that for the poor its a hardship. Do you see what I'm saying? If a doctor didn't have to pay $3000.00 dollars a month to heat and cool her luxury home, then perhaps it wouldn't be necessary to charge $300.000 for a gallbladder operation. No major franchise in this country employs full time below management level. The folks who ask you, "Do you want fries with that?" are not full time employees, which means no insurance, no benefits whatsoever, no unemployment, no workmans comp and etc. These people are working for minimum wage and living from paycheck to paycheck while the Burger King corporation (and Starbucks, and MacDonalds, and so on and so on) get richer by the minute. This is not a government problem. This is a lack of compassion and awareness of what your newest SUV or $600.00 dollar cell phone upgrade is actually costing the big picture. We all keep saying how horrible it is that there are so many poor among us. But we don't realize that our daily spending, our values, the place where our treasure is, where we put our attention, our goals, our entire orientation toward Life and its ultimate meaning creates Reality. If a major hurricane or a terrorist attack on New York City doesn't hammer in that Life is not about stuff, then what will? lily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynthia Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 Amen Lily. Preaching to the choir... not that I object. :> Some of us make choices like working less, not charging people for services they need and can't pay for, driving hybrids, volunteering, and living moderately and with responsibility.... it is frustrating to me too. Trying to discuss doing business honestly even if you lose money, good stewardship, or any level of social responsibility just earns "the look", and silence. Over the last few days I've seen diehard republicans who think w can do no wrong start to question things... it's not an answer, but it is a start. I did hear a few positive stories ... Domino's Sugar - paying an employee 40 hrs a week (I don't know his level - but it is hourly); Capital One - just bought a bank in LA and TX - moving New Orleans area employees to Shreveport with jobs, pay, and housing; I usually have little positive to say about corporations. CS Lewis talks about the little choices we make every day that skew our individual worlds to the positive or negative and influence all the choices we will have. This board - at least in words - seems to me to be a group of people who are trying to live up to their beliefs. We set an example by doing that... to show other people that it is possible to be honest, to do the right thing, to be genuinely altruistic. It's a pebble in the ocean. Maybe (yeesh!) Michael Jackson sets the tune with the old song, "Man in the Mirror" Godspeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowperson Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 We've heard from my cousins in Gulfport. They and their families came through the storm intact. They sustaned some serious damage to their dwellings but fixable. The security situation is still iffy on the Gulf coast, and the department store in which one of them worked was totally destroyed. So, she's considering moving here to the real "sin city" to find work until things are better at home. Lily, I heard about the situation at UNO today on our local NPR station. How are the students that you are hosting planning to deal with their futures? I heard that schools across the south are opening admission to them. I also fully agree with ALL of your opinions on the comparative nature of the class and wealth divisions in America, and how they are becoming more divisive. I'm enough of an old geezer to remember when it wasn't so much so. But America's policy of exporting good paying value-adding jobs overseas to exploit the low costs there, and the advent of commercial television that so effectively huckstered American "stuff" to us the last fifty years have put an increasingly effective whammy upon families. What we see we desire. And some are so addicted to acquiring their "stuff" now that they will assume massive and crippling debts to do so. The situation is going to get MUCH worse when the new bankruptcy legislation takes effect in October. It took us a long time to arrive at such a distorted picture of well being and security in this country of great people. And, I believe events such as Katrina can only serve to illustrate that many people in the comfort of their upper and upper middle class enclaves view the goings-on as just another form of entertainment to watch. Oh those poor people. What can we do? I know, let's write a check. Don't get me wrong. I'm doing just that. But what has happened to the concept of social justice when EVERYTHING comes down to money, for most people, as an expedient solution. We've been doing this for some time now. It has, I believe, desensitized us to the real facts of the episode, and then we move on to the next big "thing" when it happens a few months down the road and becomes the new entertainment. Our giving satisfies us in the moment, and we feel we've done our share. Self-satisfying expedience. There is one episode in the NT that demonstrated intense anger on Jesus' part. Being the prophet and great seer that he was, I believe that he was showing us all something in the distant future that he knew would be true for many people when he drove the money changers from the temple. Making ritualized, small sacrifices that are easily purchased in the moment, may lead to greater soul-destroying behaviors over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cunninglily Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 Lily, I heard about the situation at UNO today on our local NPR station. How are the students that you are hosting planning to deal with their futures? I heard that schools across the south are opening admission to them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They are all enrolled at ULL (University of Louisiana at Lafayette) and settled snuggly in dormitories (actually right now they are in the living room preparing to dye each others hair strange colors ). Thank you Flow for understanding the spirit of my rant. In the last week or so I've witnessed genuine compassion and generosity from many many people, and on my best days I do have faith that the majority of people are wrestling with these issues just as we are. I know that these are complex problems and Aletheia brings up some of them in our discussion of "privilege" in another thread. What is true sacrifice anyway? One definition I like comes from my study of the Tarot and the so-called Western Mysteries: "True sacrifice is giving up what one no longer wants for that which one does want." If one thinks deeply enough on that definition, it just about covers it. lily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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