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Rodger Tutt


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Hi everyone. I'm Rodger Tutt in Toronto, Canada. Every day or so I would like to post a snippet from a different hard copy book in my Universal Reconciliation library. I hope you enjoy them.

 

#1 - A SNIPPET FROM REDEMPTION ALL IN ALL - RAY PRINZING (my earthly hero and mentor)

 

“Aionian punishment means of the age, or age during. It is a period of time designated by God for the bringing to naught that which is wrong. God will mete out exactly the amount of time necessary for correction, but it will not be prolonged beyond that which is needed. All of God’s punishments are corrective in nature, motivated by His love, and used to work into our good and His praise.”

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Welcome Rodger,

 

I hope you stick around so we can get to know you.

 

It is a period of time designated by God for the bringing to naught that which is wrong

This seems like the hard road to universalism since God can bring' to naught that which is wrong' is less time that it took me to think "I".There is a passage in one of the letters in the NT which says something like "Christ must conquer evil" before bringing this world to the feet of God for reconciliation. I think all Jesus has to do is embrace the enemy. No conquering necessary.

 

Take Care

 

Dutch

Edited by glintofpewter
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I'll post a snippet too :)

 

From Whence Eternity-how eternity slipped in by Alexander Thompson

 

"Eternal is one of the many hundreds of words which gained entrance into English during the Renaissance. Previous to that time, it was completely unknown. No such word appears in any old English scriptures. Instead of it, there is found a simple little word with the meaning of eonian, or something like that, spelt ece"

Edited by markn902
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#2 – A SNIPPET FROM ALL IN ALL – A.E. KNOCH

 

“The terms translated ‘forever’ and ‘everlasting’ and ‘never’ are human perversions which could never have deceived us if they had been consistently rendered. They denote definite divisions of time called ages or eons. All together they form a distinct portion of time called eonian times. Destruction, like salvation, is eonian. It is not the end or aim of God. God destroys nothing that He will not restore. He loses nothing that will not return to Him laden with praise and glory for Himself. Destruction is a passing process, not a finished goal. Through God it will work out the welfare of all of His creatures and the glory of our Savior."

 

(Editor’s note: Scriptures that seem to disagree with this conclusion are addressed in his book)

http://www.lighthouselibrary.com/read.php?sel=2586&searchfor=||KNOCH, ADOLPH E||&type=&what=author

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Rodger welcome, I find time passing horrizontally from past to future, but in the here and now I find myself stopping the horrizontal passing to enter the vertical, which seems to be an experience of discovery from moment to moment. Thanks for the snippets or stimulus.

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#3 – A SNIPPET FROM THE PROBLEM OF EVIL AND THE JUDGMENTS OF GOD – A.E. KNOCH

 

“I, for one, freely confess that, without a knowledge of the consummation, when God will reconcile all and become All in all, I could not have confidence in a deity who allowed the world to work itself into such a mess, and who can do little more for most men than to sweep them into destruction, extinction or torment.

 

But now, how can I distrust God? Mankind is just where He has brought it. The effect of all the present evil and distress will be salutary. God will get glory out of it, and men will be prepared by it to appreciate the gifts He has in store for them all.”

 

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Welcome, Rodger!

 

I, too, hope for a better future for humanity than what we have inherited from our past and are creating in our world today. And it is indeed comforting to think that God has a plan, God is in control, and, as Knoch says, mankind is just where God has brought it. But I guess that I am the odd-man-out from most Christians in that I don’t think of human history as “in the can”, as being predetermined by God and, therefore, unchangeable by man. The verifiable fact that we know today is that, yes, our world is a mess and people die every day. When it comes to life on earth, God does not at all seem to be opposed to the destruction or extinction thereof, especially because if he is “in control”, he has allowed destruction and extinction for about 4 billion years now on this planet. So, being skeptical of the viewpoint that everything will come out in the wash, I wonder what makes us think that given our present condition, there is a solid, verifiable guarantee that things will change if the future, especially if humanity with our attitudes and actions have nothing to do with it, if we don’t change?

 

I don’t think that mankind, being what it has been and is today, is the direct result of God moving us around on his cosmic chessboard just so that we can one day bow and worship him forevermore. I think he designed us for greater things than just boosting his ego for all eternity. :) But, again, I am the odd-man-out.

 

To me, I find that Jesus presents us with an open future, a future towards life or a future towards the absence thereof. And I see God as the One pulling us towards that life. But I don’t see God forcing it on anyone. And on Tentmaker.org, they have this notion that Jesus will literally drag people against their will to God’s throne and force them to bow to him as part of the consummation. I just don’t find such notions convincing or even Christ-like. But that is me.

 

Again, welcome. I look forward to getting to know you better. Please join us on other parts of the forum for interaction as time allows.

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Good quotes.

My first introduction to Universalism was probably the writings of William Barclay –it has always been a convincing position, to me.

 

A few samples from a more recent author, Rob Bell:

 

“Jesus said that when he was lifted up he would draw all people to himself. All people, everywhere. Every tribe, every nation, every group, every tongue.

 

Paul insisted that Jesus reconciled all things in heaven and on earth to God.

 

We have to be really clear about this. God’s intentions are to bless everybody. The good news of Jesus for person X is good news for the whole world. If the gospel isn’t good news for everybody, then it isn’t good news for anybody.

 

For Jesus, heaven and hell were present realities. He talked very little of the life beyond this one because he understood it as a continuation of the kind of choices we make here and now.”

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#4 – A SNIPPET FROM THE INESCAPABLE LOVE OF GOD – THOMAS TALBOTT

 

“The corrective effects of kolasis aionios last forever. But as a means to an end, it will not last any longer than is necessary to produce the end for which it exists in the first place.

 

When we finally weary of our own selfishness, petty jealousies, and lust for power; when we learn at last, perhaps through bitter experience, that these lead only to ruin and cannot bring enduring happiness, that nothing short of union with God and reconciliation with others will satisfy our own deepest yearnings; when we discover that the Hound of Heaven has finally closed off every alternative to such a union, we shall then, each of us, finally embrace the destiny that is ours.”

 

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#5 – A SNIPPET FROM A TREATISE ON ATONEMENT – HOSEA BALLOU

 

“We are told of a god who created millions of beings whom he intends for endless torments and puts His whole design into execution; and this is called supreme goodness.

In millions of cases this god finds it most for his glory to make his rational, hoping, wanting creatures endlessly miserable.

 

We are likewise told of a devil who acts for his own gratification, and who delights in making God’s creatures miserable; and this is called badness.

 

Shall we thus represent our kind and merciful Father from Whom streams of goodness continually flow to His wanting, needing creatures? No; let every vibration of sense within us acknowledge His bountiful hand which will never close.”

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#6 – A SNIPPET FROM SALVATOR MUNDI: OR, IS CHRIST THE SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN? – SAMUEL COX

 

“By insisting on an interpreted translation of a Greek word, would you have the vast majority of men damned to an everlasting torture in order that you may feel quite sure that your timid soul will sit and sing itself away in everlasting bliss?

 

The main object of this book is to encourage those who faintly trust “the larger hope” to commit themselves to it wholly and fearlessly by showing them that they have ample warrant for it in scriptures of the New Testament.”

 

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#7 – A SNIPPET FROM GOD’S RULES FOR SCRIPTURAL INTERPRETATION AND MAN’S PLACE IN GOD’S PURPOSE – CHARLES J. PEART

 

“Sinners do not go away into everlasting punishment. They go into eonian correction. Thank God for the Concordant literal translation, which some in their blindness are condemning. When leaders in the church today condemn something I would be the first one to rush out and get it and examine it for myself. Do not make the mistake of thinking that the majority have the truth It has never been that way and it is not now.

 

The unscriptural tradition assigning a limit beyond which Christ has no power to save the obstinate sinner has spread universally. It is worldwide. It claims that the will of man can successfully oppose the power and will of God. “God wills all mankind to be saved” (1Tim.2:4). Let us follow our Lord in His denunciation of tradition that makes void the word of God. Let us revel in the full extent of Christ’s work and God’s victory for all mankind.”

 

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To me, the fact that Jesus prays in what we call the Lord's Prayer that God's will be done on earth implies that it isn't always done. I mean, why pray and work for something that is evitable, right? While I in no way deny that God wants us to be "saved" (healed, made whole, restored to right relationship with God and others), I don't think that salvation is something that God does apart from our involvement. In other words, salvation involves a change in who we are (repentance) and then walking in the Spirit or following Jesus and we are part of that process. I don't think it is that Christ lacks the power to save the obstinate sinner, but I also don't think that Jesus forces anyone. Without going into all of the details, there are plenty of scriptures that say that people do not always get with God's program or respond to his love. So I don't find the notion that humans can resist God to be "unscriptural."

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I wanted to modify my above post just a bit, but the timer ran out. :(

 

I just wanted to make it clear that I don't think repentance or walking in the Spirit or even "following Jesus" is something that Christians alone do. The concept of repentance is known in almost all of the world's religions as a changing of one's mind and ways from an old way to a new way. Walking in the Spirit is, to me, getting in step with or tuning to the love that is reality of our existence. And following Jesus' way is also done in most religions when people love that which we call God and love one another. So, speaking only for myself, I don't see universalism as tied specifically to the notion of bowing at Jesus' feet in worship.

 

To me, Biblical Universalism tends to be rooted in the concept that the cross of Jesus changed God's mind about us and how to respond to us. My understanding of universalism tends to be rooted in the concept that the love that we see in the life and teachings of Jesus (and other luminaries) changes our mind about God and how to respond to God and others.

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To me, Biblical Universalism tends to be rooted in the concept that the cross of Jesus changed God's mind about us and how to respond to us. My understanding of universalism tends to be rooted in the concept that the love that we see in the life and teachings of Jesus (and other luminaries) changes our mind about God and how to respond to God and others.

 

Although I am not affiliated with official universalism or if that even exists. I do believe that Jesus is the savior of ALL men and that means everyone is moving on the next life. That being said I have absolutely no belief that the cross changed Gods mind about us.Nothing could be further from the truth God sees the beginning from the end and does not change his mind. I think that is what religion would have us believe..in some wishy washy God that changes his mind,cant get creation of the human race right, ( it just all went to pot after adam was created.. just as soon as he was created he started sinning) has brought billions of people into existence knowing ahead of time that the majority of these people are going to get 80 years if their lucky to determine what happens for the next untold millions of years..

 

Anyway I just wanted to point out how I , someone who believes in the universal salvation of everyone , thought. Again there may be some sort of church associated with universalism that has its own beliefs that im not aware of. in fact I know there is at least one church that is a universalist church but I think they use that term loosely as most of their teachings arent biblical. And on a further note the information about said church was secondhand I have never been to it. :)

 

Also I believe Gods will is always done ..see the wishy washy part above :lol:

Edited by markn902
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Mark, "Biblical Universalism" is predicated on a very literal reading of the Bible (they favor their own translation - Young's Literal Translation) where the backdrop is that because of Jesus' atoning death on the cross, God will not consign anyone to a literal hell for all of what we call eternity. The notion is that God reconciled the whole world (to include each and every human being) to himself at the cross and that it is only a matter of time until people come to see this. If they don't accept this reconciliation in this life, then they will while they are burning in "age-lasting" punishment (hell). So Biblical Universalists hold strongly to the doctrine of the atonement and that it is only the cross of Christ that assuaged God's wrath against sin. Salvation, in this paradigm, in only through Christ and confessing that Jesus is Lord, something that, again, the Bible literally insists that EVERYONE will do at some point.

 

Granted, this is an appealing doctrine because not only does it lift up the atonement of Christ, but it negates the "eternality" of hell by redefining aionos to mean "age-during" or "age-lasting." Who's to say what the Greek word originally meant? Because of what Jesus did, everyone will one day enter heaven.

 

But, for me, I don't see Jesus' preaching and teaching as focused on going to heaven. I tend to see it as about entering or becoming part of God's kingdom on earth with the warning that if his way was not followed, the Jews would perish in the flames of the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. So I don't feel that Jesus' death provided for the forgiveness of sins or reconciliation with God that simply was not possible without his sacrifice. God, to me, has always been a forgiving God and has relationships with all kinds of people, whether they know the name of Jesus or not. To me, we suffer the consequences and judgement of our sins in *this* life. I do believe in the universal love of God, that God loves everyone and seeks a deeper relationship with all of us. But I'm undecided as to "universal salvation" because while the apostle Paul seems to hold to it, I'm not convinced that this was Jesus' view or that there is any proof of such a notion. I hope for it. It would certainly be nice. And I think God could certainly do it is he over-rode all human will. I'm just not (yet) convinced that this is how things will play out.

 

Thanks for the conversation, Mark, it's always interesting to learn how we see things from our different but sometimes similar viewpoints.

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Thank you for pointing out what biblical universalism is I had no idea there was a difference. Yeah I don't know to much about any universalism except what I pointed out. People have called me a universalist before. I don't know that i'm anything really I think im more of a progressive (now that I know what that is :lol: ) because I don't believe I have all the answers and am open to other peoples point of view. I do have beliefs though but I am comfortable with them and they don't exclude anyone else so..great post I look forward to more of them :)

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Hi, Rodger,

 

As I said in my two PMs, although I think, from my googling, you may have wisdom of an elder, unless you participate in the conversation here your account will be closed.

 

Dutch

 

OK Dutch, I didn't see the two PMs.

I was hoping to post my snippets here one by one more or less daily without participation in the conversation.

I will stop posting now by leaving you with my testimony that pretty much explains why I post these snippets on forums.

 

RODGER TUTT’S TESTIMONY

 

I would like to tell you about both the negative and positive sides of my testimony in case it might be a help to other members, or surfers, or lurkers, of this forum who have, or are experiencing what I went through for similar reasons.

 

I'm 73 years old, and had I known that evidence existed that a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible does not teach that anyone will suffer forever I never would have had a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78) over my inability to love an endless-hell god.

 

THE NEGATIVE SIDE OF MY TESTIMONY

 

From my earliest memories of my childhood I was taught by my parents and Sunday School teachers and pastors that if I didn't believe the Bible is the word of God then God will throw me into hell fire after I died where I would suffer forever. These were the people on whom I relied to tell me the truth, and I was afraid not to believe them.

 

If I had not been taught that about the Bible I am sure that I would have chosen to live out my life as an agnostic, rather than put my trust in a book that taught that there is a god who is going to sustain people alive in an inescapable state of suffering forever.

 

I think that probably most of the agnosticism in this world is caused by people choosing to live out their lives as agnostics, rather than put their trust in a book that teaches such a god as the ETers (eternal tomentors) claim to love and worship.

 

Many agnostics are decent people who try their best to be as good as they can be simply because they want to treat other people with love and respect, the same way that they would like to be treated too. But they would rather live out their life and die in the hope that they will find out that God is not like the eternal tormentors claim He is.

 

This has become my attitude too. Were it not for the fact that I have discovered evidence that the Bible does not teach an ET god, then I too would rather live out my life as an agnostic and hope for the best after I die, rather than pretend to love and respect an eternal hell god.

 

When I was seven my stepmother lit a fire in a beaker and said to me, "If you don't open your heart's door to Jesus and invite Him in, God is going to put you into a fire much bigger and hotter than that after you die and He will never ever let you get out of it.”

 

So in my heart I prayed the way she said that I had to.

 

Awhile later she said it's obvious that you still are not saved because you are still such a bad boy.

 

At that point in time I felt totally hopeless, and I was sure that God had given up on me.

 

My Dad used to beat me with a bamboo cane repeatedly shouting "In Jesus Name, in Jesus Name," until the welts on my legs would bleed. He told me that it was easy to tell at an early age that I was going to go to hell.

 

Then they both sent me away to a foster home because they could no longer cope with my bad behaviour. My real mother had died giving birth to me. My Dad's second wife had died at child birth too but the child did not live either.

 

So at the age of seven I became convinced that everyone had given up on me, including God.

 

Later, at the age of 28 (I'm 73 now) I began a twelve year nervous breakdown over my inability to successfully emotionally cope with the idea that God lets any creature suffer forever. I was only able to recover by learning that there are no verses in the Bible that teach endless suffering in hell for anyone. See

BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson

Bible Threatenings Explained

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html

 

THE POSITIVE SIDE OF MY TESTIMONY

 

Now I’m a Christian Biblical Universal Transformationist.

 

Before you brush off my assertion by saying “there is no such a thing,” think about the following.

 

MY TRIBUTE TO RAY PRINZING

Ray Prinzing is my hero and mentor.

His many writings can be Googled up and read online.

Just type in Ray Prinzing.

 

During my twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78) caused by my inability to emotionally cope with the idea that God lets any creature suffer forever in hell, every morning, as I washed my family’s dishes, I would listen to one of Ray Prinzing’s many tapes.

 

I have listened to 178 of them several times, and 23 of them many times

In addition to these tapes, I always read every issue of his periodical GOSPEL ECHOES which he later renamed LETTERS OF TRUTH and gleaned many pages of his writings into my personal journal.

 

Many people have a hero, someone in their life that made a contribution to their welfare so significant that it is far above the influence that anyone else has had.

 

Ray Prinzing is that hero to me.

 

For several years my 99 year old dad called me from his nursing home each evening. Each time he called I read a portion of my over four thousand page journal to him, and many of these readings are the gleanings that I wrote from Ray Prinzing’s writings and tapes. Many nights my dad fell asleep listening to one of Ray’s tapes.

 

As I listened to Ray’s tapes during my nervous breakdown (1966-78) I gradually became more and more sure that I was going to recover. The contents of his tapes gave me the courage, in 1978, to take a public stand that I believe that the Bible teaches universal transformation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation. (I’m 72 years old now)

 

My panic attacks completely stopped.

 

And now I spend most of my time offering people, in various ways, the information that helped me recover and helps me stayed recovered, and I am pleased to report that I have a lot of evidence that the info I post has helped, and is helping many other people in the same way that it helped me.

 

Ray Prinzing has now passed on, but his influence is so wide spread that he will not be forgotten on this earth for many, many years, if ever. And that is a very good thing!

 

J. Preston Eby was a good friend of Ray Prinzing. They frequently quoted each other in their writings. Read what J. Preston Eby wrote about this subject. Copy and paste into Google

WILL JESUS TORTURE BILLIONS FOREVER? or click on

The Law of Circularity: Will Jesus Torture Billions Forever? How Men Are Saved

http://www.godfire.net/eby/circularity.html

 

The entire series of fifteen chapters by J. Preston Eby on this subject can be accessed at

Savior of the World Series

http://www.godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html

 

His writing specifically on universal transformation is at

The Restitution of All Things

http://www.godfire.net/eby/restitution.html

SEE ESPECIALLY THE VERY LAST PARAGRAPH IN THAT ARTICLE

 

Like I said before, if I truly believed the Bible teaches eternal hell, I probably would choose to live out my life as an agnostic, hoping to find out after I die that God is not really like that. I would live my life trying to treat other people the way I would like to be treated by them and hope for the best after I die.

 

I think the doctrine of endless hell is probably the primary reason why many decent people choose agnosticism or atheism rather than Christianity. Like President Abraham Lincoln said to the eternal-hell evangelist, "Your god is my devil."

 

A TRIBUTE TO SEVERAL OF MY SPECIAL FRIENDS

 

Fortunately for me I learned there are people like Ray Prinzing (my hero and mentor), and Ray's friend J. Preston Eby, and another friend of both of them, Canadian, George Hawtin, who see an infinitely different God in the Bible. The writings of all three of these men can be Googled up on the internet.

 

IMO people like Ray and Preston and George know the real Jesus.

KNOWING THE REAL JESUS

http://www.godfire.net/eby/godislove.html

 

By Rodger Tutt, in Toronto, Canada

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Rodger,

 

Thanks so much for sharing your testimony with us. I, too, know personally the torment of trying to reconcile the “God of love” that most Christians say we should come to know with the idea that God will also burn most people in everlasting fire if they don’t believe or do the right things. About 8 years ago, when I was in conservative, fundamentalist Christianity, my 4-year-old son was threatened with a literal hell (accompanied by artists’ renderings) by a Children’s Church teacher that left him in hysterics. It was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me and, perhaps like you, I needed to get away from the “ET-ers”. Perhaps we can both agree that fear-based religion can never lead to loving relationship?

 

>>I was hoping to post my snippets here one by one more or less daily without participation in the conversation. I will stop posting now by leaving you with my testimony that pretty much explains why I post these snippets on forums.

 

Though we hesitate here on TCPC to speak for others or to claim to represent any official “Progressive Christian” view (see my signature below my post), I think it is safe to say that this forum is “conversationally based.” We enjoy talking with each other…about almost anything. You, no doubt, and with good intentions, are passionate about the message of ultimate reconciliation or universal salvation or the consummation or whatever other label you wish to use. But we want to get to know YOU, not just your message. We can’t do that if all you do is post one-sided snippets or if you leave because you don’t want to engage in conversation. Jesus had a message. An important one. But that message was not only embodied in what he said, it was embodied in the relationships he had with people – with his disciples, with the rejected and “least of these.” We (you and I) both agree that God is a God of love. And neither of us believe in everlasting torment. This means, in a very practical way, that God is about ongoing, growing relationship. Shouldn’t his people be the same way?

 

It is likely that most of our most active participants here don’t believe in a literal, everlasting hell. We probably each have our reasons for rejecting that doctrine. Perhaps some, like you and like the good folks at Tentmaker.org, have “over 100 scriptural proofs” that hell is not everlasting. Those scriptures, if we claim to be Christian, should be given serious consideration. This is even more important for those Christians for whom the Bible is their ultimate authority. But for others of us, and especially for me, and this will probably sound heretical, it is our *own* subjective experience of what we call God that tells us deep in our hearts that the love the created and sustains the universe just would not subject it to everlasting torment. Something (or Someone) deep inside me told me that God would not do that, even before I consciously acknowledged it. How do I know this? Because, if I truly believed in that kind of god, I would have spent my entire life going door-to-door, warning people of impending doom, much as I would warn a neighbor if I saw his house on fire. But I did not, even though, for orthodoxy’s sake, I claimed to believe. So I either never really believed in the doctrine of hell, or I simply didn’t really care about others. I would like to think, for obviously reasons, that it was that I didn’t really believe.

 

Imo (and for whatever it is worth), I think it would be good for Progressive Christians to be aware of these often overlooked scriptures about ultimate reconciliation. After all, most of us still consider the Bible to be sacred, even if we have to discuss what that means to us. But, again imo, posting links or one-sided snippets is not the way to have a conversation. That is a monologue and most people are not too interested in monologues because we are designed for relationship and conversation.

 

So I, for one, would encourage you to stay and participate. Your testimony touched me deeply, Rodger. So I want to know what YOU think and why, not necessarily what your heroes believe. We all have heroes in the faith, myself included. But the good news advances through messy relationships and meaningful dialogue, not through “take it or leave it” monologues. We can all learn and grow if we are willing to converse, wouldn’t you agree?

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Dutch, can you give me an illustration of what you would want me to comment on.

I read all the posts but really have nothing to say.

Everything I know I have learned from others.

 

Here is my next snippet.

 

#8 – A SNIPPET FROM THE PURPOSE OF GOD’S WILL – GUY MARKS

 

“God prearranged it all, from the fall of man to the glory of the consummation. Not one thing was left to chance. All was founded on His wisdom.

 

To some, evil is never to cease. God is never able, as they see it, to bring about so much good that all evil will vanish. They try to justify God with the false teaching that man is a free moral agent, whereas the only freedom of man which the scriptures affirm is the freedom of deliverance we find alone in Christ Jesus.”

 

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Rodger,

 

As often is the case Wayseeker says it so well. I could leave it at that but it is my ball to throw back since I sent the PM.

 

As I said elsewhere I suspect that you have the wisdom of an elder. To me that means that you hold what you know differently than most black and white adolescents - but see, I am assuming, with no denial or confirmation from you. minsocal's tag line says that "To study something is not thereby to accept it." In the strictest sense then these snippets do not belong to you unless you own them in conversation. They are just things you found lying around. Also I believe that these snippets do not contain and may not even point to your more nuanced understanding. Out of all the things we read we weave our own story which cannot be related by distributing all our notes. The Snippets, without your commentary, say nothing reliable about you. And any of us who were not in your situation could not begin to know how they are connected with your life. Unfortunately without conversation they mean nothing.

 

I don't think you need examples now but maybe you do. If so just ask. I'll respond publically or privately.

 

I do appreciate how much you have shared about your journey. I hope you stay for the conversation. We will miss getting to know you further if you stop talking about the snippets.

 

Take Care

 

dutch

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Dutch, can you give me an illustration of what you would want me to comment on.

I read all the posts but really have nothing to say.

Everything I know I have learned from others.

 

Here is my next snippet.

 

#8 – A SNIPPET FROM THE PURPOSE OF GOD’S WILL – GUY MARKS

 

“God prearranged it all, from the fall of man to the glory of the consummation. Not one thing was left to chance. All was founded on His wisdom.

 

To some, evil is never to cease. God is never able, as they see it, to bring about so much good that all evil will vanish. They try to justify God with the false teaching that man is a free moral agent, whereas the only freedom of man which the scriptures affirm is the freedom of deliverance we find alone in Christ Jesus.”

 

Roger,

 

Is this quote saying that God has deliberately prearranged and planned out all the pain and suffering that people experience in this world? God has deliberately created man to experience the deaths of 15,000 little children each day to malnutrition and starvation, to mass genocides throughout history, to world wars, civil wars, catastrophic natural events?

 

Cheers

Paul

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