Immortal Souls

[Harry]

In Bishop Spong’s essay on The Study of Life, Part 6 - Rethinking Basic Christian Concepts in the Light of Charles Darwin, he says in his closing paragraphs:

 

“So I had to begin my quest for life after death by going into the depths of the mystery of life itself. Just as we now know that life evolved out of lifeless matter, that consciousness emerged out of life and finally that self-conscious life has emerged out of mere consciousness, so perhaps the day is now arriving when we will experience the possibility of entering a universal consciousness that is beginning to emerge out of self-consciousness. We are thus part of the oneness of life, bound together by a common DNA and that oneness makes us part of God. It also suggests that we are linked to eternity since God is found at the depth of the human.”

 

Teilhard de Chardin was a brilliant Jesuit thinker of the past century. (The following is quoted from Wikipedia)

 

“Teilhard studied what he called the rise of spirit, or evolution of consciousness, in the universe. He believed it to be observable and verifiable in a simple law he called the Law of Complexity/Consciousness. This law simply states that there is an inherent compulsion in matter to arrange itself in more complex groupings, exhibiting higher levels of consciousness. The more complex the matter, the more conscious it is. Teilhard proposed that this is a better way to describe the evolution of life on earth, rather than Herbert Spencer’s "survival of the fittest." The universe, he argued, strives towards higher consciousness, and does so by arranging itself into more complex structures.

 

However, Teilhard here proposed another level of consciousness, to which human beings belong, because of their cognitive ability; i.e. their ability to 'think', and to set things to purpose. Human beings, Teilhard argued, represent the layer of consciousness which has "folded back in upon itself", and has become self-conscious. Julian Huxley, Teilhard's scientific colleague, described it like this: "evolution is nothing but matter become conscious of itself." In Teilhard's own words: "...a Universe in process of psychic concentration is identical with a Universe that is acquiring a personality."

 

Life continues evolving toward the ultimate perfection of consciousness, a universal super consciousness. I think the universe is a living evolving organism and universal super consciousness is the ultimate measure of evolution.

 

Super universal consciousness is beyond self consciousness; it is other consciousness that is not only consciousness of self but of other’s consciousness. It is pure empathy, the ability to experience and understand another’s thoughts and emotions; to “get into their heads” so to speak.

 

In order for us to be self consciousness we need a functioning brain and a brain needs energy, oxygen supplied by our blood. When our heart stops pumping our brain dies and our self consciousness can no longer be supported by it.

 

If I am to think that I have a soul it is necessary that I understand how my soul is supported by my living body. I reasoned that my soul, mind, emotions, self consciousness and ego are all somehow a part of my mortal warm body. When my body goes dead and cold none of these are left within it. They either die with it or go on. I deduce that because my mind, emotions, self consciousness and ego die with my brain that my soul must be independent of them or it would also die with my body.

 

If my soul is independent of my body and my senses how can it possibly go somewhere like heaven or hell where it will continue on in eternity in suffering or bliss and why should I care?

 

What would be the purpose of a soul that is independent of a body?

 

What is the human spirit; is it the soul?

 

Is humanity a single organism with many physically separated parts that shares a common spirit, consciousness or soul?

 

If I have a soul and if it is a part of my consciousness and must be supported by a living brain how does my soul go on after my brain dies if that soul is unique to me and I no longer have consciousness?

 

The answer I’ve come up with is by no means complete. It comes from reading about paranormal psychic studies of near death experiences, out of body experiences, psychokinetic activity, remote viewing and reincarnation.

 

I’m thinking now that perhaps, through particle entanglement and natural the law unique souls of individuals are all part of a common universal soul of self conscious humanity.

 

Unique souls of the deceased may draw their energy from a universal consciousness field supported by the emotional conscious energy of living humans. In effect these souls timeshare brain power. Our brains are active even during sleep and our brain’s activity produces energy that can be measured by EEG. Are our dreams somehow part of a consciousness energy field? Are the people and events we experience in our dreams fragments of experiences of conscious souls sensed by our brains through particle entanglement while we aren’t using them?

 

These are just some thoughts and questions.

[soma]

Harry, Thank you for starting this thread. I agree with what you said. I also feel when biological evolution ends spiritual evolution begins.

 

I will try to say the same thing in Christian Terms. Please comment where you like.

 

A fact of evolution is that we live to die because as soon as we are born, we are dying. What is the next step for our species? Physical or mental improvements will only prolong our ultimate end death, but spiritual awakening will lead us to eternal life. In those who are most alive, the life of the body is subordinate to a superior life that is within the self. These individuals surrender to a far more abundant vitality, a consciousness that lives on levels that cannot be measured or observed. Science has defined the conditions of life, but they are more like the conditions of death. Without oxygen, it's death; without proper temperature it's death; too much or too little atmospheric pressure and its death; too much or too little food or water and it's also death; these are the conditions of death, not life. These are the boundaries of our life, a life in prison.

In Reality the infinite is undivided. It is one, but it has the ability to be infinite and finite. This is God the Son, the Christ consciousness in the finite that brings us back to life. In the first phase of evolution, the pure consciousness manifests itself in creation. God the Son starts the second phase of evolution by intentionally becoming subject to the limits of space and time so the Son's distinction from the Father starts the second phase of evolution. We can call this phase involution because by going into the infinite (in the finite) the Self reveals its union with the Father.

In a composition we can say that the Father is the subject matter, all pervading pure consciousness or as Jung said the collective consciousness, the Holy Ghost is the action and the Son is the intent. The masterpiece is the unity of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. This is the Holy Trinity, and upon deep inquiry, we see The Holy Trinity trying to make sense of non-duality. This is a logical problem because the mind in time and space only knows duality, but when we say God is everything, we are saying God is one. The all-pervading consciousness is everywhere and is without duality, but it is not without relations.

 

I like this phrase and it is not my motto, I use to think I was a body with consciousness, but now I think I am consciousness with a body.

[Harry]

Harry, Thank you for starting this thread. I agree with what you said. I also feel when biological evolution ends spiritual evolution begins.

 

I think that once we reach a point in our development where we begin to reason and understand the difference between right and wrong biological and spiritual evolution becomes a parallel process as we mature as individuals. This is the point some call the age of reason. We begin to make choices based on perceived outcomes.

 

I will try to say the same thing in Christian Terms. Please comment where you like.

 

Ok

 

A fact of evolution is that we live to die because as soon as we are born, we are dying.

 

It is true that we are destined to die from the instant we are conceived but we are also destined to live until something causes us to die. I’ve heard it argued that when we stop growing we begin our decline into death. I’m not sure I agree with that but I understand that death refers to death of the body.

 

What is the next step for our species? Physical or mental improvements will only prolong our ultimate end death, but spiritual awakening will lead us to eternal life.

 

I’m not sure what spiritual awakening is or how it would lead to eternal life. Can you expand on that please?

 

In those who are most alive, the life of the body is subordinate to a superior life that is within the self.

 

Do you mean by this that these people understand that there is a spiritual existence more important than our physical existence and can easily accept their mortality?

 

These individuals surrender to a far more abundant vitality, a consciousness that lives on levels that cannot be measured or observed.

 

Do you mean a universal consciousness?

 

In Reality the infinite is undivided. It is one, but it has the ability to be infinite and finite. This is God the Son, the Christ consciousness in the finite that brings us back to life. In the first phase of evolution, the pure consciousness manifests itself in creation. God the Son starts the second phase of evolution by intentionally becoming subject to the limits of space and time so the Son's distinction from the Father starts the second phase of evolution. We can call this phase involution because by going into the infinite (in the finite) the Self reveals its union with the Father.

 

In a composition we can say that the Father is the subject matter, all pervading pure consciousness or as Jung said the collective consciousness, the Holy Ghost is the action and the Son is the intent. The masterpiece is the unity of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. This is the Holy Trinity, and upon deep inquiry, we see The Holy Trinity trying to make sense of non-duality. This is a logical problem because the mind in time and space only knows duality, but when we say God is everything, we are saying God is one. The all-pervading consciousness is everywhere and is without duality, but it is not without relations.

 

You completely lost me here. You use metaphors I can’t connect with evolution or to the soul. Are the Father, Son and Holy Ghost metaphors for evolution of the spirit?

 

Can you explain what you mean when you say duality because there are different meanings in religion and quantum mechanics? In religion I understand duality as being both god and man and in quantum mechanics as energy being both a wave and a particle.

 

I think you are saying all pervading consciousness is like universal soul or universal conscious.

 

I’m a non religious thinker because religion requires belief in irrational ideas so the idea of a Holy Trinity is not a part of my thought process.

 

I like this phrase and it is not my motto, I use to think I was a body with consciousness, but now I think I am consciousness with a body.

 

I like that one too, or:

I used to think I was a human on a spiritual journey; now I think I’m a spirit on a human Journey.

 

In Reality the infinite is undivided. It is one, but it has the ability to be infinite and finite.

 

This statement doesn’t make sense to me. To be infinite is to be without limit. It’s like saying within limits there are no limits or there are no limits within limits. That is a mind bender.

 

Try this one:

 

The statement below is false.

The statement above is true.

[JosephM]

(snip)

I'm not sure what spiritual awakening is or how it would lead to eternal life. Can you expand on that please?

 

 

(snip)

 

Hi Harry,

 

I think you ask some great questions and i'm sure he (Soma) will answer you for himself but i thought i would share my understanding on this question. To me spiritual awakening in contrast to sudden enlightenment is a process in which one has a growing expansion (or some might call it a shift) in consciousness. In other words an expansion of consciousness from a narrow or limited experience of ego to the space in which ego and all things happen. It is not accumulated knowledge but rather a growing awareness that goes beyond a world of form where no separation between a knower and the known exists. A oneness with the very essence of being where as you previously said " a universal consciousness that is beginning to emerge out of self-consciousness". To me, that is spiritual awakening and in that consciousness there is no death, only life eternal. That is about the best i can do in words for the moment.

 

Joseph

[soma]

I think that once we reach a point in our development where we begin to reason and understand the difference between right and wrong biological and spiritual evolution becomes a parallel process as we mature as individuals. This is the point some call the age of reason. We begin to make choices based on perceived outcomes.

 

I agree we evolve spiritually by dwelling in bodies of physical matter and by working with the temporary material found in this world. I feel when we remove barriers in our mind the temporary is thrown aside to show the permanent characteristic of the infinite. I say remove barriers because the finite is in the in finite.

 

I’m not sure what spiritual awakening is or how it would lead to eternal life. Can you expand on that please?

 

Do you mean by this that these people understand that there is a spiritual existence more important than our physical existence and can easily accept their mortality?

 

Do you mean a universal consciousness?

 

I feel we see, hear, taste, smell and feel gross energy, but at the same time we can experience subtle energy. I feel a nice word for subtle energy is consciousness. There is a limit to our senses and this boundary marks the experience of gross life because the subtle energy fields are out of our ordinary range of experience. Technology has shown us that there are subtle levels in our world, which we are not aware of because our senses are limited to the gross strata only. In order to experience the finer energies of life, it is necessary to improve our sense of being by aligning with the soul. I would call this aligning with the subtle energy spiritual awakening. I think people who have experienced this universal energy or consciousness can easily accept mortality because the law of conservation says energy is not lost or destroyed, but only changes form.

 

 

You use metaphors I can’t connect with evolution or to the soul. Are the Father, Son and Holy Ghost metaphors for evolution of the spirit?

 

Yes, I feel we need myths to describe what can't be described. Hopefully the myth from any culture transforms the spiritual experience so the receiver experiences it first hand.

 

Can you explain what you mean when you say duality because there are different meanings in religion and quantum mechanics? In religion I understand duality as being both god and man and in quantum mechanics as energy being both a wave and a particle.

 

I feel duality is the feeling of separation. A cup of water separated from the ocean. A consciousness in a body feeling separate from God or the ocean of pure consciousness. Jesus said, "I and the Father are One." He removed the cup and felt the unity. I think physics says the same thing when they say energy turns into matter and matter into energy. So the ice bergs of creation, of consciousness are evolving, melting soon to become one with the ocean of energy, pure consciousness, God the Father. Sorry if it is a bit abstract.

 

I think you are saying all pervading consciousness is like universal soul or universal conscious.

 

Yes, I believe this too.

 

I’m a non religious thinker because religion requires belief in irrational ideas so the idea of a Holy Trinity is not a part of my thought process.

 

I am also not religious, but I think the infinite can be approached from many directions and at this time I am trying to expand on the symbols used in religion because I feel especially in Christian religions people are being held hostage with the symbols and not liberated with them.

 

That is a mind bender.

 

I agree, we can't grasp the infinite with a finite mind so we need mind benders; therefore the Zen monks use Koans to stop the rational mind and give a glimpse of what is beyond it. The Whirling Dervishes and mystics of many disciplines use similar tactics.