JosephM

Paul, I heard Melbourne and Perth in particular are great places to live in Australia. Still It would be hard to match the Villages , Florida and personally for me I prefer the US as long as i didn't have to live in a big city such as New York, Chicago, Detroit or (anywhere in the state of California. 🙂) No offence meant to those living in California. Just a personal preference from living there for a couple years and the current political climate there. Putting individual locations aside, i doubt that the country of Australia "kills the US as the best place to live" but good try and glad you are happy there. It seems to me it's all a matter of whats important to one personally that helps make that decision.

I'm sorry thomas but your rhetoric above in your last post does nothing for me. Hopefully, it makes you feel better to get it off your chest. 🙂

It's fine with me Rom if you give him no credit for anything positive he has done.. Personally , i don't see it that way but i have no problem with your view. I happen to be satisfied with health care here in the US and yes it could use some improvements but it is a complicated issue and is a work in progress. Nothing is perfect but none of my relatives are without some level of medical care. Hospitals here turn no-one away for emergencies including non-citizens. There is no other country i would personally rather be a citizen of at the present time.

Thomas , I suggest no such thing about whether we deserve or don't deserve. Its a fact of life.. I'm just saying Countries, especially the US has been influencing elections since the 1940's. It is not a tragedy nor the big deal you make it.. It's what countries do. They also spy on each other. I'm particularly happy they (the Russians) exposed the emails that cost Hillary the election. If they have something that will cost Trump the election, i have no problem in them releasing it. Let's stop judging and being self-righteous without full knowledge and let the people speak in 2020 on what they want.

Thomas, It's kind of funny you mention Russia interfering in our election as if that is something new or taboo. We as a country (our presidents and representatives) have been interfering with other country elections for as long as i can remember.. We as a nation put other leaders in power and when convenient we take them out. Do you need examples or have you come across this in your reading?

To one Trump is a hero. To another an enemy. It is easy to judge without full knowledge. The American people will speak on this matter in 2020 whether with or without full knowledge. Perhaps it would be good for now if we give our critic inside a rest and see what the people who live here really want at that time?

Your perspective on these matters often depends on whose propaganda you accept.

I think he is doing what other presidents promise but don't deliver on. Statistics can say whatever they want but all the people i personally knew that were out of work before Trump are now back to work under his administration. And my relatives who are hard workers are now making more money than they were 3 years ago. I realize that that is a very small cross section of data but it is one that i don't have to rely on news propaganda or people who hate him or have a different agenda than he has for data. While he has his problems, he is doing what he promised which is an uphill battle against the establishment. Here is just one obstacle

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I agree it is an oversimplification. When you meet someone in Buddhism you greet them with a slight bow and hands placed together in front of your heart. The palms of the hands are united to express contact between (union of) the Buddha in myself and the Buddha in you. It is similar to the greeting in Hinduism where the word "Namaste" is spoken which basically acknowledges the divine in the other. I think you may need to dig a little deeper to understand Buddhism and that it includes recognizing the Awakened Being (Buddha) in all and compassion for not only other humans but all living things. It is not self centered but on the contrary looks beyond the "self" which is the conditioned self for the Self (the Unconditioned) which is in all and transcends conditioning (your story).

Try wiki here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_Eightfold_Path

I don't know if it is as clear as you seem to portray it. In Buddhism, there are 4 Noble Truths and an eightfold path. The 8 fold path includes more than meditation . It includes action, effort, speech, concentration, thought and mindfulness as listed below

In Buddhism what one endeavors to stop is not thinking itself but the obsessive energy that gets caught up in the content of the thoughts. We practice to recognize thoughts as just another phenomenon arising. We practice to stop our belief in the solidity of our interpretation of our thoughts—our “story”—and the emotional patterns and judgments that often come with it. Another Buddhist teacher says .....In meditation, we can transcend thinking—not all at once and not by willpower, but by skillfully and repeatedly redirecting the mind. So, paradoxically, in order to arrive at that open, relaxed state of mind, one must engage in skillful application of mind rather than a passive open awareness, at least until all negative mental states, including restlessness, have been set aside. Doyeon Park says .... As we gain insight from our dharma practice, we begin to see that mountains are no longer mountains and waters are no longer waters. That is, we start to understand that nothing exists on its own; all things exist in relation to all other things. In addition, all things are changing and transient. Without proper reflection and guidance, we can easily fall into the trap of thinking mountains and waters don’t even exist, a grave misunderstanding that can lead us to a point where we don’t care about anything at all. This stage, then, is still an incomplete view. Buddhist practice is about bringing more wisdom and compassion into the world, not about denying or neglecting the world we are living in.It is during the third stage, when mountains are once again mountains and waters are once again waters, that we truly see things as they are. Though the words are the same, these mountains and waters are worlds apart from those of the first stage. The difference is in the way we see them. We can see the mountains from the first stage as a reference to conventional truth, while the mountains of the second are a reference to ultimate truth. The third mountains are a reference to the middle way, which means not getting caught in either conventional truth or ultimate truth.

Thomas and Paul, Along these lines of your discussion and since this is Other Wisdom Traditions.... Here is a record of the Kalama Sutra on a translation of what the Buddha had to say on positions, traditions, teachings, scholars. accepting as accurate etc... “Now, Kalamas, don’t go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, ‘This contemplative is our teacher.’ When you know for yourselves that, ‘These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness’ — then you should enter & remain in them." Here is another translation that is more common but may or may not be more accurate... “Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.” Joseph

1. From our perception of the world there follows acceptance of a unique First Principle possessing various powers. Pictures of name and form, the person who sees, the screen on which he sees, and the light by which he sees: he himself is all of these. 2. All religions postulate the three fundamentals, the world, the soul, and God, but it is only the one Reality that manifests Itself as these three. One can say, 'The three are really three' only so long as the ego lasts. Therefore, to inhere in one's own Being, where the 'I', or ego, is dead, is the perfect State. Ramana Maharshi

My error . A pantheistic view would. So much for me and labels. 🙂 And personally i do see God and Creation as One and the same (inseparable) as is Creator and Creation. Ask yourself. "Without Creation, would God even exist?" It seems to me by definition there would be nothing.

How could Christianity that includes both OT and NT not identify God with Creation? OT basics... In the beginning God created .....etc. etc. (Genesis) The panentheistic doctrine is Jewishly unconventional but traces of it are found in some Jewish sources. The Zohar speaks of God both 'filling all worlds' and 'surrounding all worlds.' The Kabbalist Hayyim Ibn Atar writes, in his Commentary, Or Ha-Hayyim (to Genesis 2:1), 'The world is in its Creator and the light of the Creator is in the whole world.' The German Talmudist Moses of Taku (early thirteenth century) attacked the medieval hymn Shir Ha-Yihud ('Song of Unity') for its panentheistic leanings. In the section of this hymn for recital on the third day of the week the words are found: 'All of them are in Thee and Thou art in all of them' and: 'Thou surroundest all and fillest all and when all exists Thou art in all.' In Hasidic Thought The panentheisic doctrine surfaced again in Hasidism, especially in the Habad version. While the Mitnaggedim understood the verse: 'The whole earth is full of His glory (Isaiah 6:3)' to mean no more than that God is manifest in the universe and His providence extends over all, in the Hasidic understanding the verse means that God is literally in all things. While many believe that the panentheistic doctrine, according to which God is literally in all things, is sheer heresy because it tends to blur the distinction between the sacred and the profane, the clean and the unclean, good and evil, and poses a threat to the conventional teachings of monotheistic in religions like Judaism or Christianity.Many will say If God is in all and all is in God, what is to be made of the laws of the Torah based on these distinctions? If Judaism tells a story to me it is about a fall when we chose to know both Good and Evil as separate. Attributing the first to God and the second to God's nemesis as if there were two powers. It then gives us the law which is by NT teachings purpose to be our schoolmaster and slay us because no one could be truely human and live under the letter of the law and justified by the law. "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight" Again I testify to every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by the Law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. Christ is the end of the law to all those that believe. Christ is that connection to ALL things. (the Whole, the One) from that vantage point, to me... . God and Creation are One. Just musing

It seems to me there is only "Life" and ...... all that we label is just that.... only labels.

To which Paul responded While i would concur that God is Life, i think Paul makes a good point. I must ask .....Are you partaking in the existence of yourself as separate to God? If so, how can that be if God is All in All and through all things? Just musing, Joseph

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Intuition, Well there is another alternative. You can just stick with the "i don't know'". It's quite a refreshing perspective to look from. Anyway, who needs a belief system? While having none is shocking to many, i would affirm that God showed me quite a while ago most clearly that i didn't need one. Such freedom and peace is not to be found elsewhere!

Thomas , Since this is other wisdom traditions area i think you might enjoy this article on attachment (clinging) and it might clear up any misunderstanding from a Buddhist perspective. https://www.learnreligions.com/why-do-buddhists-avoid-attachment-449714

The clinging and attachment is the delusion. Life here is recognized as impermanent but it is our clinging to it as if it isn't that is the delusion. Pain and suffering is is part of the impermanence of life here. One can be upset at it, fight it , grieve for it , be saddened by it, wish and hope it was not there, etc.. or accept it and see it for what it is whereby it loses its power over one to suffer. This doesn't preclude one from helping to alleviate it in others when in one power to do so.. Is life a cosmic joke? No one likes to think so. But i do find it amusing at times. You search all your life for the meaning and the purpose of Life and while you may assign it your own purpose there is none to be found. Life is its own meaning. One searches long and hard all ones life for happiness, joy, and peace as if it can be found in the things of this world and after having painfully searched for something a long time, finds it one morning in the pocket of ones own coat. It was there all the time. That is the cosmic joke.

Why is it not delusion if you really know or have realized it is impermanent or was temporary in the first place. It seems to me it is a form of attachment or clinging. That is a delusional act and being common doesn't make it less so. We have something in common. I also have experienced severe migraines. Mine are triggered by certain foods. I know and recognize when they are starting, what to do when i sense them coming on to alleviate the pain, and how to go through the pain when it is too late without suffering. Its not preferred but when it comes it is accepted, no medication is taken, and though experienced as severe debilitating pain it is witnessed without suffering and in fact sometimes amusement at the unconsciousness of the human condition that knows better but allowed it to develop in the first place. It seems to me, one can be the witness of ones pain without suffering if you are not attached to it. It too will pass. My Dad on his death bed saw life as a cosmic joke. That was his words of wisdom along with drinking plenty of water because it is basic. Life is a cosmic joke when one sees that no matter what the religious and spiritual seeking on this planet, you end up back where you started. If that’s not a fantastic joke worth a good laugh I don’t know what is. We all look for happiness, peace and fulfilment in the things of the world, yet all along these things are our very nature which is our very own center of being.

It may only begs an answer because you require one. To me, It is a form of clinging or attachment to limited reasoning. It seems to me that Pauls statements in his post above this one are very close to reality in as much as can be described with his own personal experiences of which i mostly share as a similar perspective. The amusement bit was inserted for a lack of better words on my part. To me life provides entertainment like watching a movie where dichotomies exist but in reality it is illusion in the sense that it is impermanent and not as it seems. Much of life may personally disturb you concerning happenings and the nature of God but if you experienced reality you might find it more amusing, take it less seriously, and understand that nothing is really gained or lost. This, in my experience, is a most difficult conundrum to understand or explain with the thinking mind. Pain and suffering is part of the parcel of physical life along with joy and pleasure and the rest of the dichotomies. If one has only preferences instead of attachments in this life , it is my experience, that suffering (mental anguish) would be dissipated and one would experience the world differently. In that state, one might even choose to set a goal to do whatever is in their power to alleviate it in others. To me Love is not an act in itself but rather recognizing the God in others by a connection to all things and then allowing it to express itself. An act itself can have its own selfish motive but Love sees and acts beyond such. These are my musings and i reserve the right to be in error. 🙂