thormas

Has the entire population taken IQ tests?.

I disagree: all people want understanding if another person or an institution cares enough to try to provide it. Again, case in point: the present state of Christianity. Some have (or will) turned away because there is no true effort to provide that understanding to modern people, while other continue in the faith and pass their lack of 'understanding' to yet another generation.

This is not faith without works, this is faith without (any) understanding. Fine for a while, but this is the problem Christianity has now: people need to have some real understanding especially in terms of their present world view and how we develop. It needs to make some sense (understanding) or it eventually is put aside.. It is questionable if the vast majority are perfectly happy.......this site is a small example of the need to understand. Also, if Jesus made a permanent improvement and one never knew or understood it - it would be irrelevant because one couldn't do anything with it. A permanent improvement with optional (and, therefore, at time no) understanding enters the realm of the magical, not the Holy.

Actually there is difference but perhaps not separation.

I would suggest there are no moments when God is not acting in humanity and in creation.

Evangelization is the work of man, not God, spreading their take on the Ultimate. It may or may not speak to others on this or other planets, however these other cultures (may) have views that speak more powerfully to their lives.

Perfectly clear. Thanks for the memories:+}

For me the Bible is a community (Jewish and/or Christian) understanding of the God they believe was with them.

Anthony, Belief impacts action: you hail Jesus as your best teacher because you believe, based on the Christian NT, something about Jesus - that he talked and walked in love. So obviously you care (about belief) so you can't fault others who also care about what they believe. Now, if the argument is against belief without action, I agree. Plus there is a tension in how the Kingdom is understood: here yet coming. You are the second person this week (in separate websites) who has said that Jesus believed that living a life of love was the Kingdom of God. This is what we might believe but there is more to it for Jesus. He was preparing people to 'be ready' because God was about to overcome the forces of evil and establish his Kingdom. It seems to be the action of God, not men that establishes the Kingdom. It appears we have a bit of a different take on it than Jesus did - and that is okay. You have made a call for those who agree with you but dismiss those who are not yet there or simply disagree. So much for love.

We have discussed upper case before and I believe I provided my rationale. Of course we have different views and the way to bridge the divide (at least for some) is by engaging in dialogue to see if the fuller explanation 'speaks' to another. Seems there is no other choice but to use words such as these and go from there. And cheesecake is divine although not Divine.

Welcome Anthony, I look forward to conversations. tom

I did see that but didn't realize it came with ads.

BTW, what is this book that keeps increasing its presence when we post?

My belief system is Christianity (although a rather different take that the traditional) so a pretty comprehensive integration. I am not a real student of Judaism, Islam or other 'belief systems' so I have no judgment to make concerning them. On the other point, the biblical imagery might show God becoming closer or more distant but I don't buy that God's presence is anything but constant. A man or woman's 'holiness' might determine how 'near' they are to God (so to speak) but I don't believe that God 'distances' himself based on the action of man.

For children (of all ages) I always liked The Velveteen Rabbit" and "Hope For The Flowers." This are little kid books but they were required reading for seniors in high school when I taught theology.

Very helpful, thanks to both of you. I am familiar with Augustine's 'just war' and know of Bonhoeffer stance and death but not familiar with neo-orthodox Reformed and Lutheran anthropology and social ethics - at least under those titles.

True, thoughts on 'Christian realism' and how they differs from others? Anything on Augustine's intriguing quote above? Who or what churches practice "peace-church pacifism where we stand back and merely let our lights shine?" Just curious for details.

It would be interesting FD76 if you explained your comment more thoroughly. What, specifically, interests you in the three men you mentioned?

Since Burl has decided to play and offered an answer, thought it might be helpful to present another take. I many times agree with Burl but as you can see: Divine/divinity - Being, Presence, Love Transcendence/transcend/transcendent - 'More" (as opposed to beyond or above) Immaterial - not a term I use God - Love/Abba Holy - humanity in divinity Spirit/Spiritual - not a term I use but similar to holy Grace - gift: the continual self-giving of Divinity to humanity

Although I follow the idea of change in our ability to act for the divine, It was an actual change for Jesus and made possible for others who heard the word. However, there are others who have not heard or, having heard, it either does not resonate or they have heard and prefer another way (of the Way). There are others who turn the key. I have Netflix but I also have Amazon, iTunes and have dallied with Hulu and others. People can access Netflix (once they know about it) but for others Amazon is the answer - there is no need to know about any others or, even if they do, the preference is not for Netflix.

Probably best to ask for clarification in particular threads as the need arises.

I believe there are others, in other cultures/times, who have also been key turners.

Interesting point on alloy. I guess my take is that Christ is God-man and that this, indeed, is a unique being. However, and here we might differ, I don't understand it in traditional theistic terms (or perhaps it is fairer to say that divinity has too often been given priority over the humanity of Jesus in some Christologies). I start with the real humanity of the man, Jesus (truly, just like us in all ways) who became open/attentive/obedient to Divinity and he freely allowed Divinity/Love to live in him. I take this to be Jesus 'incarnating' or literally giving flesh/presence to Divinity in the world (although I won't get into it here, this is only possible because of God's self-gift or self-revelation to creation; incarnation is God's action). Jesus then is man who becomes a truly Human Being by living or incarnating Divinity. This Human Being is a unique being, different in degree but not in kind (although it can be said that a great difference in degree can, seemingly, result in a difference in kind) but it is because he is not different in kind that we too can do/be what Christ is: God-man (this is what we are called to be as true sons and daughters of God). So I agree that there is transformation although I would not characterize it as substance. The twist of the key: not sure if you understand pre-Babel literally or not (I do not) but using the image of key, I see Jesus as standing on the shoulders of those who have gone before him (Moses, priests, prophets and the people) and his life turns the key that opens the door for all to be Human Beings. So it is restoration if there was an earlier time when man's relationship with God was what it was intended to be. However, since that was not the case, I think it is not restoring what was - but creating/realizing what was always intended.

You had me at progressive Christianity being compatible with Calvinist Reformed. If time permits, I would be interested to see how you understand both. And welcome again.

Burl, Interesting comments and I would be interested in greater explanation: the alloy piece is intriguing but not sure I fully understand your point. As is the conclusion of #1 about what it means to believe Jesus is divine. So too, the cosmic key. Does the latter mean that before the key was turned God did not dwell within humanity? Again, very interesting.