thormas

That was great, hadn't seen it before. "don't forget the ball" words to live by.

All well and good and I agree with this practice and have acted on it throughout life. However, if they drag you into court unjustly and and your family is threatened with financial ruin, don't gift wrap anything, hire a good lawyer and fight. No problem loving the unlovable, but if they start kicking people, bashing in brains, enslaving others and on and on, what is one to do? if you witness a mugging (which includes a beating), what is one to do? All makes for an interesting discussion.

While I agree with much of what you have said about passive resistance, I don't think it can always work nor does it always give the oppressor pause. I have read recently (and can't remember the source) that the ethic of 'turn the other cheek' works in an apocalyptic framework when Jesus is expecting the end of time and the establishment of God's Kingdom but when that Kingdom didn't come as expected, it would be impossible to sustain. I'm not sure I agree with this completely but, in part, it rings true. For example, I don't think a passive approach worked with Hitler, nor, seemingly, would it work with North Korea. In addition, if someone came after my kid, it depends on their approach. If they were yelling, I might try reason and understanding but if they came with a knife, not so much. Same with the KKK here in America who hate Jews, gays, 'minorities' and on and on. They seem not to be impressed with passive resistance. I think if the KKK marches in a community, it is acceptable to passively resist by marching against them, but if they show up in your gay brother's yard, burning a cross and threatening those in the house - not so much.

I agree with the opening line I quoted above. In Christianity, and I guess all religions, there is an understanding of mythos and ethos. Mythos, what you believe influences your ethos, how you behave.

Lissy, Even though I responded to a different post, I wanted to say Hello and Welcome. Also, my apologies as I typed your name correctly but this site auto-corrected to Lisa - which is not your name. Actually it did it again when I typed it in this post and I almost missed it. Apologies Lissy. tom

Sorry, did not intend to mislead. The question marks are an indication that I think snakes were in the Moses story, but other than that I don't know. Lisa, Not sure if it was doom and gloom but that it did not go into the appearances.

I believe the consensus of most biblical scholars is that another writer added 16:9-19 to Mark. As for snakes, Moses???? But I would think many do not accept these verses as literal.

You are not alone in this.

of course, as long as turnabout is fair play.............

Amen to that Tariki.

Exactly - you cannot call people names on this site. And, I don't know if I disagree with you but I am too busy to 'need' a complete stranger ...or anyone...to victimize. Plus, as a Christian, I don't do that. You do seem to be off to a bad start, first with hypocrites and pharisees and now with talk of cults and brainwashing. It would probably be better to just start a thread.

If you read the 8 Points you will see that this is not a site where you can call people names. You have begun your introduction by referring to other Christians, who seemingly disagree with you, as Pharisees and hypocrites. This is not a good sign. One other point: the 'murder' of Jesus is a bit more complicated that blaming the Pharisees. It could also be questioned if the historical Jesus was an outcast as Judaism, circa 1st C, had a history of such men and Jesus seems to have attracted crowds (and followers) over a period of time (1-3 years depending on the source). By the way, where are you banned and which site directed you to PC?

One possibility is to let your parents know that you are studying religion, specifically Christianity, but you (if you do) remain an a-theist in that a traditional theistic understanding doesn't speak to you (perhaps even because of your upbringing). Atheism and pantheism are sometimes seen as polar opposites and radically different 'answers' to theism. There is a middle way called pan-en-theism (God in the world) and many (not all) who call themselves progressives Christians seem to express themselves in its terms. There are great theologian out there to read, one is a guy named John Hick; I would recommend his 'The Metaphor of God Incarnate.' This is very readable and an amazing intro to a non-theistic approach to Jesus. Best of Luck and feel free as you read and study this and/or other books, to pose questions or offer thoughts for comment.

Welcome and in addition to the Bible and this site, try Bishop Spong's site.

Following a 'way' to become and be Human is valued across traditions - in addition to Christianity, to which I had referred above. I am not presenting that statement as mine, with which all must agree, I am repeating what appears obvious and many, throughout history and to the present day, have already agreed. . Buddhism speaks of 'the path that leads to the end of suffering.' This is the eightfold path or the noble way - including right speech and right conduct. This Path is 'the way' that is to be traveled to achieve enlightenment and end suffering. Taoism is called the Way, and in 'the Way' there are attitudes and practices for the service and living to a person’s own (true) nature. So too with the 'way' of Judaism (symbolized in the journey trough the desert to the Promised Land), in which the Christian sect began. And Islam with its moral 'way' to be followed in personal, social, political, and religious life. Zen Buddhism's T.D. Suzuki writes 'we are constituted by nature that we can all be artists (of life)' and 'to love God is to have no self, to be of no-mind, to become a dead man to be free from the constrictive motivations of consciousness. There is a 'way' - to be an artist of life, to become a dead man. Sikhism (and I must admit it has been a while since I have thought of it) and Hinduism - also have their 'way.' Do these religious traditions differ on major and minor points? Seemingly, but all profess a "way to be" in order to achieve Enlighment, the Fullness of Being, Paradise, Heaven, the Kingdom, Freedom (or call it what you will). The idea is simply that we (humanity) are all the same and if there is 'something to overcome (suffering), to achieve (Enlightenment, Humanity), to share (Fullness of Being, Heaven), there is a 'sameness' in our way.' And it seems the traditions all speak and/or allow for 'failure:' if one does not follow the way, there can be no enlightenment, no heaven, no abundant life. There is a Way to Be and Become: it is the way of all creation. There is an incredible diversity within the sameness of humanity; we have different ways of seeing and understanding. The Way is not set in stone, like a Yellow Brick Road, upon which all must tred in perfect order to arrive at the city on the hill. Rather, the Way is like paths through the woods, all speckled with sunlight, all holding possibilities, all originating and leading back to the source. All the paths of the Way, hold the possibility for the travelers to have a truly Human Life. Although we are different, the same call is heard by all, the same destiny is given to all.

cf earlier post.

It is not a Christian concoction, nor is such human suffering tied to demonic powers: it is simply a recognition that natural occurrences or man-made actions (be it intentional or negligent) can and do cause harm, sometimes great or even catastrophic harm to humanity (and the world). And such natural suffering (is)can be 'happenstance' but it is still not good: it causes harm to people. And some call such natural occurrences, evil. And many definitely call the suffering and harm which is the result of intentional man-made actions, evil as they use the same term for the men and women who are its causes. Not all 'patterns of atoms' cause such evil. as for your last sentence, you will have to try again.

I'll go with Yellow, that way I know the light will soon turn Red and I won't harm or kill others. I'll take the perception, recognize the color as indicating something real, live another day, access the Truth and see its Reality in experience. While others will still be sitting in traffic pondering the pixels, unable to move forward for fear they are illusory or might be misleading :+}

The first part of your response is a bit too cavalier for a serious response. As for the rest:I have no problem acknowledging the 'programming' throughout the evolutionary process but it is that programming that keep us safe from................things that can ruin our day, cripple us, kill those we love and on and on. Simply, people refer to these and other such 'things or occurrences' as natural evils. And if it was programming that put the fight or flight into the European response to Hitler, here we have an example of what people call man-made evil. The perception matched the reality as Hitler's atoms were out to get others (kill, conquer, dominate, extinguish), some fled, others fought and that pile of atoms laid itself to rest.

As I mentioned Rom, colors were not the important part of the discussion, so it has been a bit lighthearted and, perhaps, avoidance - as it does not really pertain to Truth. And, I couldn't see it because it was non existent. Although if I could, I would say pixel less Yellow is my favorite color.

Not sure how your rejection of evil would play with all those who have suffered from natural or man made evil over the history of man.

Well said! Freedom is found in choosing correctly, choosing the Good, choosing Love (over self-centeredness). There is only one way to be Free, to (choose and act to) become and be truly Human - and it is a way understood by many of the great religions and philosophies (whether it is lived is a different matter). This freedom is also Truth, a lived Truth. And perhaps, playing off Buson we could say when we speak and act in love towards others, 'the gentle breeze of Spring kisses our lips.' To differ in 'minor' ways is not the issue, but if another differs in the major way -that choosing only Love leads to freedom, and thus that this Truth must be lived - while they are entitled to their opinion, they have missed the mark.

Again, for me this pertains to truth, so I don't disagree with your point. However, Truth (to distinguish from truth) is, as I suggested before, about a Way to be and I think there is only one Way to be and become Human.