Burl

Romansh, I don't know these people and I wasn't there. I can only assume they felt the need to make contact. Often that just what people say when they are speechless but have to say something anyway. Different communities grieve differently. That would not be an awkward statement in an African-American homecoming celebration. Elucidate the question and why it is important to you and I'll write more.

TNH mentioned one should not engage in sex unless it was within a long-term, loving relationship. Paul wrote that the particularly evil thing about sexual sin is that it is sin against one's own self. My experience with selfish sex is that these are both true. Some of my selfish sexual experiences are the ones I repent of the most deeply. It's a lot like how one can stand in front of a stack of Marshalls and have a great headbanging time but eventually lose their hearing. The soul can withstand a lot of abuse, but eventually one's higher angels will take flight. External peace really does grow from internal peace. There are a lot of effort being made today to destroy internal peace and break up healing societal connections. These are interesting but dangerous times.

From Sir Andrew Lloyd Weber's Anglican Requiem

4 hours a day sitting down sounds like a lot. I'm surprised monks don't get Aummerhoids

Chapter 6: A Peaceful Heart A short chapter on the importance of inner and outer peace in Buddhism and Christianity. Not surprising but important. I was in a very stressful period this week when I was surprised by a serendipitious, peacemaking email. I quickly put my worries on the back burner and moved back towards that peaceful heart. A good day.

Soma, please post on your interpretation of Jonah. At least your outline. I always start teaching people to read English Bible with that particular scroll because it is short and the narrative is intense.

So start a topic on one, Soma! Personally, I'd love to know more about the Vedas. I'm particularly interested in the Hindu belief that Jesus was an avatar of the god Krishna. The reason I started this particular topic was because at least one member indicated they thought being a Christian necessarily required belief in certain Western doctrines. Not true at all, but stereotyping is an evolutionarily positive feature of human thought. I thought it was worth demonstrating that Christianity is extremely varied, and many Christians do not believe 'belief' in Jesusis even necessary. Some believe one can become a God with their own star, some believe all religions are facets of a single truth, some think Jesus and Satan are siblings. There are thousands of Christian sects and denominations. Christianity is not defined by what one sees on TV or learned as a child in Sunday School. Christians who attain direct spiritual contact with God are the fastest growing segment of Christianity. No meditation or training necessary. I respect your reliance on on meditation, but when you write about it it comes out sounding mushy and self-indulgent. Similarly, my personal belief that Jesus of Nazareth was an incarnation of God sounds like an stupid superstition. The ability to express purely spiritual concepts verbally is exceptionally rare. Rumi could do it, but I don't think you and I are in his class. However, we are all intelligent voices who can compare and contrast ideas. I'm trying different ways to establish physical frameworks for a productive group chat, but it's kind of like trying to start a fire with damp tinder.

Still, monks read and they write. What writings have you found particularly interesting?

Christian mysticism is very much alive, but non-verbal practices don't lend themselves to productive message board discussions. Buddhism and Hinduism have extensive written scriptures they "hold onto for support". They are complex religions with doctrines, cosmologies and ancient narratives. An overemphasis on meditation seems to be an intellectually lazy approach. Comparing written scriptures would be a fascinating topic.

I agree generally Soma, but TNH is commenting not on group meditations but rather on the necessity of numerous common, everyday interactions with spiritually like-minded people. I don't think TNH is focusing on church as group worship as much as he is church as group problem coordiation. I think TNH is specifically rejecting the idea that spiritual advancement can be achieved out of community.

Chapter 5: Communities of Practice TNH observes churches are essential to the spiritual life, even for Buddhist and Christian monks. It is essential to gather with like-minded people. The spiritual life can't be lived by looking in a mirror. Personally, my family is between churches right now and we are visiting many. It's interesting, but I do miss making friends. The internet is a lifeline, but really that's all it is.

Progressive Christianity for me is a Jesus-centered method of deepening my personal, conscious contact with God. It prefers finding new questions in Scripture rather than rummaging through it for old answers. It uses theology as a means of circumventing intellectual barriers to enlightenment rather than as a means of sharpening religious doctrine to a wire edge. Progressive Christianity elevates the activity of God in everything, including other faith traditions and agnosticism/athiesm. It believes that God is holy and not religious. Similarly, it does not disparage juvenile, rote, superstitious, outdated or incomplete attempts at faith but instead humbly encourages humanity to aspire towards a superior exemplar. Progressive Christians avoid anything which would disrupt the faith of others. Progressive Christians share what they personally find valuable without pressuring others. They actively seek out and seriously consider divergent viewpoints as a spiritual exercise. They can weigh an uncomfortable opinion objectively, and actively reflect upon their own inevitable prejudices while doing so. Progressive Christianity is human. It adheres to reason yet it encourages imagination. It is both individual and societal. It respects tradition but is not bound by it. It is pious but it also enjoys a good laugh. It is tolerant of error yet brave enough to sternly confront true lies and injustices. Progressive Christianity is positive, creative, edifying and uplifting. It defines itself by what it is and not simply as counter point to what it is not. It is the restoration of a muddled and fading religion into fresh clarity and vibrancy.

Here is an good introduction. http://thinktheology.co.uk/blog/article/pistis-christou-a-pauline-bungle Pistis Christou translates as faith in Christ. Traditionally this has been translated as one is saved by their faith in Christ, but there is a strong minority of important NT scholars who believe the superior translation is that we were saved by the faithfullness which was in Christ. This second interpretation implies Christ's passion enabled salvation for everyone, even non-Christians. My Greek is far too lame to deal with the linguistics, but I strongly feel this universalist interpretation is much more consistent with the Scriptural context. It makes sense of many of the seemingly irrelevant events in late Matthew.

Finishing Chapter four, I realized the reason TNH does so well at recognizing Christ within Buddha is that he tries his best to adopt a Christian viewpoint. He is not outside looking in, and he is not comparing theological constructs. He has borrowed what he can from Christians he respects and has built himself a little hut in the Christian wilderness.

Who knows? It's a hypothetical situation. I've seen enough grief to give anybody a pass on however they react to death. I'm certainly not going to make judgments on their theological authenticity.

Your definition of free will, per your essay: "The ability to act or to make choices independently of the environment or of the universe." Ergo, will is making choices in this discussion. Ability/inability and dependence/independence refer to freedom. Talk of will being traces of undefined electro physical particles is pseudoscientific bafflegab. The inapplicability of logic to the immaterial is an Aristotelian axiom. Logic can only be properly applied to what is physically observable. If you have a problem with that, take it up with him.

People often say stupid or meaningless things to the grieving. There is nothing one can say that helps.

I see a basic issue here. Logic cannot be be applied to concepts or anything non-material. Will is a concept, not a materiality so this discussion falls into the category of art and not reason. Choices are material. You bet on black or red. You buy the car or you do not. You kiss the girl or you do not. Specific events can be discussed logically. Will may be used to enhance our aesthetic and emotional appreciation of specific choices, but discussing will divorced from specific events is not logical.

Good move on reviving this thread. Would you please restate your topic? I've lost focus.

You are definitely invited but no moaning, please.

We should go together and invite JosephM so he can reflect on dualism.

The lectionary is a collection of important Bible verses. They are arranged one per Sunday in a three year rotating cycle. Many pastors use this use this as inspiration for their sermons. This way people are exposed to a well-rounded subsample from Scripture. For this week: Hebrews 13:1-8, 15-16 13:1 Let mutual love continue. 13:2 Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by doing that some have entertained angels without knowing it. 13:3 Remember those who are in prison, as though you were in prison with them; those who are being tortured, as though you yourselves were being tortured. 13:4 Let marriage be held in honor by all, and let the marriage bed be kept undefiled; for God will judge fornicators and adulterers. 13:5 Keep your lives free from the love of money, and be content with what you have; for he has said, "I will never leave you or forsake you." 13:6 So we can say with confidence, "The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can anyone do to me?" 13:7 Remember your leaders, those who spoke the word of God to you; consider the outcome of their way of life, and imitate their faith. 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. 13:15 Through him, then, let us continually offer a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that confess his name. 13:16 Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

A spiritual exercise: go to the beach and ogle some bikinis. What you see is fixed but not fully revealed. I will pray you experience an unexpected revelation.

>> ... free will makes the experience spiritual ? This is a new one on me.<< Ref: Viktor Frankl. We always retain control of our attitude and intention even in extremis. The crucifixion is a most excellent example of the transformation of suffering into praise through intention and free will as Jesus recited Psalm 22 in death. Psalm 22 English Standard Version (ESV) Why Have You Forsaken Me? To the choirmaster: according to The Doe of the Dawn. A Psalm of David. 22 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, from the words of my groaning? 2 O my God, I cry by day, but you do not answer, and by night, but I find no rest. 3 Yet you are holy, enthroned on the praises of Israel. 4 In you our fathers trusted; they trusted, and you delivered them. 5 To you they cried and were rescued; in you they trusted and were not put to shame. 6 But I am a worm and not a man, scorned by mankind and despised by the people. 7 All who see me mock me; they make mouths at me; they wag their heads; 8 “He trusts in the Lord; let him deliver him; let him rescue him, for he delights in him!” 9 Yet you are he who took me from the womb; you made me trust you at my mother's breasts. 10 On you was I cast from my birth, and from my mother's womb you have been my God. 11 Be not far from me, for trouble is near, and there is none to help. 12 Many bulls encompass me; strong bulls of Bashan surround me; 13 they open wide their mouths at me, like a ravening and roaring lion. 14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint; my heart is like wax; it is melted within my breast; 15 my strength is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to my jaws; you lay me in the dust of death. 16 For dogs encompass me; a company of evildoers encircles me; they have pierced my hands and feet — 17 I can count all my bones— they stare and gloat over me; 18 they divide my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots. 19 But you, O Lord, do not be far off! O you my help, come quickly to my aid! 20 Deliver my soul from the sword, my precious life from the power of the dog! 21 Save me from the mouth of the lion! You have rescued me from the horns of the wild oxen! 22 I will tell of your name to my brothers; in the midst of the congregation I will praise you: 23 You who fear the Lord, praise him! All you offspring of Jacob, glorify him, and stand in awe of him, all you offspring of Israel! 24 For he has not despised or abhorred the affliction of the afflicted, and he has not hidden his face from him, but has heard, when he cried to him. 25 From you comes my praise in the great congregation; my vows I will perform before those who fear him. 26 The afflicted[d] shall eat and be satisfied; those who seek him shall praise the Lord! May your hearts live forever! 27 All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the Lord, and all the families of the nations shall worship before you. 28 For kingship belongs to the Lord, and he rules over the nations. 29 All the prosperous of the earth eat and worship; before him shall bow all who go down to the dust, even the one who could not keep himself alive. 30 Posterity shall serve him; it shall be told of the Lord to the coming generation; 31 they shall come and proclaim his righteousness to a people yet unborn, that he has done it.