Burl

Your statement was that Bible interpretation changes generation after generation. These were major changes and complete reversals of position on capital punishment, homosexuality, the treatment of women, slavery, etc. Traditional biblical interpretation was completely discarded. Quranic interpretation is essentially unchanged with no such major growth spurts. Yes, the Quran says homosexuals should be killed by having a wall collapsed upon them. Now they are hung or beheaded, so I guess you are right and some change in interpretation has occurred but these are only minor modifications.

The various branches of Islam have nothing to do with different interpretations of the Qu'ran. They are related to the acceptance/nonacceptance and the numerous hadith, or recorded sayings of Muhammad. They are also cultural and political differences unrelated to the Qu'ran or any theology. Interviews with ISIS fighters reveal they don't know much about Islam. Islam is much more than the Qu'ran just like Christianity is much more than the Bible.

Nope. There are eight schools of Islamic tafseer which are interpreted legalistically in the extreme and all interpretation demands exacting precedence. Originality and change in Qu'ranic interpretation has been strictly prohibited and persecuted since Caliph Uthman redacted the various chapters of the Qu'ran into a single volume. Muslims believe God dictated the Qu'ran directly via the Archangel Gabriel and the entire point is to keep interpretation changeless through every generation.

CHAPTER THREE: The First Supper TNH observations on the sacrament of the Lord's Supper center on TNH concept of mindfulness. Perhaps this is a linguistic issue, or perhaps a religious one, but I feel I understand mindfulness better after reading this chapter. I had previously thought of mindfulness as a type of focus or concentration, but the sacrament of the Lord's Supper is more about releasing and removing attention from what is extraneous in order to isolate, ensconse and elevate the omnipresent divinity. It's not about making God more present, it is about minimizing everything else. Interestingly, TNH mindfulness reveals to him to Peter Abelard's conception of the meaning of the Eucharist as a joint effort of God and humanity to create a result superior to what either could have achieved alone. Astounding that a 20C Buddhist could express a 16C theological interpretation of Christian ritual with such eloquence. TNH knowledge of formal Christian theology so far is incidental at best, but it is decisively congruent. It is also evidence of the semiotic power of ritual and why ritual is a basic component of society.

One need not be a Christian to be moved by the best in Christian music. Bach, Sam Cooke, Andrew Lloyd Weber, Arvo Pärt, Bob Dylan . . .all Christians and profound musical geniuses appreciated deeply even by those whose religion forbids music. I have seen an English speaking atheistic, pop star crazed teenager who never listens to classical music shaken to tears by Górecki's third symphony sung in Polish, so it isn't lyrics or style. She didn't know the history of the piece. It was simply the accessibility to raw human emotion. Belief is personal, but emotion is universal.

>>To me it seems the Bible is interpreted differently by generation after generation. << Precisely why it remains relevant and holy.

Cool. I thought it might be from a non canonical collection.

Where did this parable come from?

Chapter 2: Mindfulness and the Holy Spirit TNH draws a connection between mindfulness, living in the moment and the Christian Holy Spirit. He is struggling with understanding Christianity and Trinitarianism. I'm interested in seeing how he works with this.

My personal concept of hell is having to wake up every day at six and move.

"In a true dialog, both sides are willing to change . . . We must allow what is good, beautiful and meaningful in the other's tradition to transform us." I think this idea of seeking out the good, beautiful and meaningful is essential, as is realizing much of other traditions will not seem good, beautiful or meaningful until after that transformation occurs (if then). It is also significant that the words 'truth' and 'belief' do not occur. TNH concept of interbeing requires more explanation for me. I assume the concept will be elaborated as the book progresses.

Touching Jesus TNH speaks of his early resentment of Christianity, and how it was overcome when he met individual Christians who exemplified Christ. He also mentions Buddhists engaged in violent political struggles. I personally had a professor who was held captive in a Sri Lankan airport by Buddhist revolutionaries with automatic weapons. Definitely not your happy thought California Buddhists meditating in yoga pants. The human need to mentally categorize and simplify is a strong and adaptive tendency, but love transcends all. Personal contact overrides intellectual barriers and prejudices. I pray that this discussion will continue to provide personal touchstones in this typically sterile means of communication.

I am sorry to hear that, Romansh.

40th? May God continue to bless you both!

Ch 1, sec 1: Religious Life is Life Buddhists were shocked to hear that TNH had partaken in the Eucharist. As what is best understood by me as Wesleyan, TNH Buddhist critics sound superstitious. They seem to echo an RC dogma, which is understandable. Per Peter Abelard, 16th century, the Eucharist represent the transformation of the ephemeral gift of God (grain; grapes) elevated into relatively indestructably human value (bread; wine)by human effort. Grape juice rots and grain is inedible but with the work of man it becomes life-sustaining. God has a purpose for man, and the Lord's Supper edifies that purpose. TNH is evidently not intellectually aware that the Eucharist represents the Christological transformation of the mundane into the sublime but he partakes as a gesture of faith, not as an intellectual submission to his RC friends. I sense that TNH is reaching out across superstitious dogma, and he will not allow silly intellectualism to become a stumbling block. Perhaps TNH will realize in time the transcendal reality of his polite gesture, but the fact that he is willing to extend his tongue to Christ on the basis of faith alone speaks volumes. TNH is absolutely not a spiritual coward.

Chapter One: Be Still and Know TNH had the thoughtfulness to divide his chapters into carefully labeled subsections. This encourages analysis, and we cannot dismiss TNH as a lazy author or as a façile theosophist. He is not squirting ketchup and mustard over God in order to make Him slide down more easily. This work is intended to be read in detail and with intellectual intent, but not divorced from internal reflection. I did suggest taking this work chapter by chapter, but I was wrong and romansh was right. This should be approached more slowly than I expected, and as the author has provided his own guide stones we should use them. As discussion leader, I feel we should adopt TNH's subheadings and post to each subheading. I pray this will result in a mutual respect and understanding of each individual participant. My goal in starting this exercise was to structure a method of sharing our thoughts (which are not always intellectual) in this forum format which is bounded by language and intellect. It is really all about us sharing with each other. The book is but a vehicle, which I suspect is its purpose. May we learn to love each other in difference and agreement.

Hello, Hoghead1! Join us for the book discussion. It has just begun.

INTRODUCTION - Elaine Pagels The foreward established TNH as having significant interaction with respected Christian mystics, which is an important qualification. Pagels is a popular non-academic author on religious history. Her introduction largely discusses her own writing on the Nag Hammadi texts. My guess is that the publisher asked her to do an introduction simply for the sales value of her name. She has one or two points taken from the text, but these are better addressed in the author's context. Frankly, the introduction seems self-promotional. On to the first chapter! I believe I can hear Amazon shushing its way towards the romansh household. Hopefully Trump has not managed to get Canada segregated behind a snowfort wall, even though the Canadians would probably be more than willing to pay for it.

I guess Amazon Prime has me spoiled. I'm sure your dog sled will get there eventually. Do you mind if we move on to the introduction next week? We can always back up, but participation on this board is slim at best. I think having a concrete focus will help. It would put us into the text in two weeks. This preambling is really not the point, but it sure beats dead air.

I will wait for all y'all to get the book and comment before moving on to the introduction. If possible, get the same edition as in the image so page numbers will align. I have not read further than the foreward. We may progress together. The book is what it shall be.

FOREWARD The foreward was written by David Stindel-Rast, a Benedictine monk. http://gratefulness.org/brother-david/about-brother-david/ He describes the Holy Spirit as the breath of God in all living things, and quotes Romans 8:14, "All who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God." Most are not aware of how often and how broadly the term "son of God" is used in Scripture. He notes that Nant Hanh spent considerable time with Dr. King, Thomas Merton and other Christian theologians so we can expect TNH to express an informed and educated discussion of Christ and the Buddah.

Background - Link to a biographical sketch of the author. http://plumvillage.org/about/thich-nhat-hanh/biography/

I just received my copy today. Chapter by chapter? I, too, have found internet communication best in teaspoon size doses.

Joseph, you are correct. I am glad crazy folk like GISMYS have faith, and it sure beats being a perpetual skeptic but folks like GISMYS sure embarass educated bible believers. I avoid disrupting peoples faith, especially online. GISMYS will move forward in time, and you are kind in helping him move forward in a more appropriate environment.

GISMYS viewpoint did not come about in Christianity until John Darby in the late 18C. It was roundly rejected as heresy and bibliolatry except by small groups of independent ministers on the American frontier. Scripture does not claim to be the "Word of God". It describes itself as a tool for the teaching of righteousness in 2 Timothy. Proper interpretation is not a simple exercise, but spontaneous revelation does occur with regularity. I would say Scripture is a vehicle for transmitting the word of God, but it is not God's word itself.