Burl

So you are not really living in the present. You are living in a teleological arc towards the future, correct? Most people look at the past and can see how their present was formed. Everyone has some anxiety related to occasional past events, but in large I think most people find their past a source of satisfaction and look to their future with hopeful anticipation.

I think this is a denial of our humanity. Humans are biologically programmed to avoid pain, to seek pleasure and to grow in experience. To live in an eternal present would be a life without love, aspiration or reflection and a constant repetition of suffering. Living only in the present would be hell, not heaven. Thankfully, living in the present is only a momentary illusion like Michael Jordan's hangtime. Attempting to live only in the present is a brief respite from alienation or existential terror at best. At worst, it is a psychotic reaction which shuts out reality in favor of a soothing self delusion.

>>Burl - how do you envisage your consciousness continuing after death? What does that actually mean? Can you describe what sort of sensation/experience you think that might be?<< Heaven as a holding queue awaiting a glorified bodily resurrection.

Eternal life simply means that your consciousness continues after death.

May 21, 2017 John 14:15-21 The Message (MSG) The Spirit of Truth 15-17 If you love me, show it by doing what Ive told you. I will talk to the Father, and hell provide you another Friend so that you will always have someone with you. This Friend is the Spirit of Truth. The godless world cant take him in because it doesnt have eyes to see him, doesnt know what to look for. But you know him already because he has been staying with you, and will even be in you! 18-20 I will not leave you orphaned. Im coming back. In just a little while the world will no longer see me, but youre going to see me because I am alive and youre about to come alive. At that moment you will know absolutely that Im in my Father, and youre in me, and Im in you. 21 The person who knows my commandments and keeps them, thats who loves me. And the person who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and make myself plain to him.

May 14, 2017 John 14:1-14 The Message (MSG) The Road 14 1-4 Dont let this throw you. You trust God, dont you? Trust me. There is plenty of room for you in my Fathers home. If that werent so, would I have told you that Im on my way to get a room ready for you? And if Im on my way to get your room ready, Ill come back and get you so you can live where I live. And you already know the road Im taking. 5 Thomas said, Master, we have no idea where youre going. How do you expect us to know the road? 6-7 Jesus said, I am the Road, also the Truth, also the Life. No one gets to the Father apart from me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him. Youve even seen him! 8 Philip said, Master, show us the Father; then well be content. 9-10 Youve been with me all this time, Philip, and you still dont understand? To see me is to see the Father. So how can you ask, Where is the Father? Dont you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I speak to you arent mere words. I dont just make them up on my own. The Father who resides in me crafts each word into a divine act. 11-14 Believe me: I am in my Father and my Father is in me. If you cant believe that, believe what you seethese works. The person who trusts me will not only do what Im doing but even greater things, because I, on my way to the Father, am giving you the same work to do that Ive been doing. You can count on it. From now on, whatever you request along the lines of who I am and what I am doing, Ill do it. Thats how the Father will be seen for who he is in the Son. I mean it. Whatever you request in this way, Ill do.

John 10:1-10The Message (MSG) He Calls His Sheep by Name 10 1-5 Let me set this before you as plainly as I can. If a person climbs over or through the fence of a sheep pen instead of going through the gate, you know hes up to no gooda sheep rustler! The shepherd walks right up to the gate. The gatekeeper opens the gate to him and the sheep recognize his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he gets them all out, he leads them and they follow because they are familiar with his voice. They wont follow a strangers voice but will scatter because they arent used to the sound of it. 6-10 Jesus told this simple story, but they had no idea what he was talking about. So he tried again. Ill be explicit, then. I am the Gate for the sheep. All those others are up to no goodsheep stealers, every one of them. But the sheep didnt listen to them. I am the Gate. Anyone who goes through me will be cared forwill freely go in and out, and find pasture. A thief is only there to steal and kill and destroy. I came so they can have real and eternal life, more and better life than they ever dreamed of.

Sagrada Familia Cathedral

Luke 24:13-49 The Message (MSG) The Road to Emmaus 13-16 That same day two of them were walking to the village Emmaus, about seven miles out of Jerusalem. They were deep in conversation, going over all these things that had happened. In the middle of their talk and questions, Jesus came up and walked along with them. But they were not able to recognize who he was. 17-18 He asked, Whats this youre discussing so intently as you walk along? They just stood there, long-faced, like they had lost their best friend. Then one of them, his name was Cleopas, said, Are you the only one in Jerusalem who hasnt heard whats happened during the last few days? 19-24 He said, What has happened? They said, The things that happened to Jesus the Nazarene. He was a man of God, a prophet, dynamic in work and word, blessed by both God and all the people. Then our high priests and leaders betrayed him, got him sentenced to death, and crucified him. And we had our hopes up that he was the One, the One about to deliver Israel. And it is now the third day since it happened. But now some of our women have completely confused us. Early this morning they were at the tomb and couldnt find his body. They came back with the story that they had seen a vision of angels who said he was alive. Some of our friends went off to the tomb to check and found it empty just as the women said, but they didnt see Jesus. 25-27 Then he said to them, So thick-headed! So slow-hearted! Why cant you simply believe all that the prophets said? Dont you see that these things had to happen, that the Messiah had to suffer and only then enter into his glory? Then he started at the beginning, with the Books of Moses, and went on through all the Prophets, pointing out everything in the Scriptures that referred to him. 28-31 They came to the edge of the village where they were headed. He acted as if he were going on but they pressed him: Stay and have supper with us. Its nearly evening; the day is done. So he went in with them. And here is what happened: He sat down at the table with them. Taking the bread, he blessed and broke and gave it to them. At that moment, open-eyed, wide-eyed, they recognized him. And then he disappeared. 32 Back and forth they talked. Didnt we feel on fire as he conversed with us on the road, as he opened up the Scriptures for us? A Ghost Doesnt Have Muscle and Bone 33-34 They didnt waste a minute. They were up and on their way back to Jerusalem. They found the Eleven and their friends gathered together, talking away: Its really happened! The Master has been raised upSimon saw him! 35 Then the two went over everything that happened on the road and how they recognized him when he broke the bread. 36-41 While they were saying all this, Jesus appeared to them and said, Peace be with you. They thought they were seeing a ghost and were scared half to death. He continued with them, Dont be upset, and dont let all these doubting questions take over. Look at my hands; look at my feetits really me. Touch me. Look me over from head to toe. A ghost doesnt have muscle and bone like this. As he said this, he showed them his hands and feet. They still couldnt believe what they were seeing. It was too much; it seemed too good to be true. 41-43 He asked, Do you have any food here? They gave him a piece of leftover fish they had cooked. He took it and ate it right before their eyes. Youre the Witnesses 44 Then he said, Everything I told you while I was with you comes to this: All the things written about me in the Law of Moses, in the Prophets, and in the Psalms have to be fulfilled. 45-49 He went on to open their understanding of the Word of God, showing them how to read their Bibles this way. He said, You can see now how it is written that the Messiah suffers, rises from the dead on the third day, and then a total life-change through the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed in his name to all nationsstarting from here, from Jerusalem! Youre the first to hear and see it. Youre the witnesses. What comes next is very important: I am sending what my Father promised to you, so stay here in the city until he arrives, until youre equipped with power from on high.

My point is that there is present, outside evidence of spiritual progress. One cannot rely simply on internal dialog.

Spiritual progress has demonstrable effects. Increased socialization and creativity. Humility and concern for others. Decreased worry about self and death. Heighted intuition and understanding. A charismatic and attractive personality. Lots more; all observable by others. Intellectual self satisfaction decreases as one develops new questions, interests and desires. A person who is spiritually dead in the water has all the answers and no questions.

An essential point of reason is the need for evidence which is external to the self. Disbelief is an uninteresting nothingburger. Which is still better than a tautological belief in the product of one's own mind, which is delusion.

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. Either I have successfully explained my belief or I have not.

According to the gospel Jesus did eat after the resurrection.

Exactly my point. You do not even consider evidence which would challenge your preconceptions. How long has it been since you made a significant addition to your belief system, and what was it? My guess is that your belief system is not growing, but rather becoming smaller, harder and tighter.

A perfect example of confirmation bias. Simply reject anything which does not fit your preconception. If Jesus died, was resurrected in an etherial body, and proved the existence of life after death by letting you put your fingers into his wounds I think you would disbelieve your own experience.

I generally agree. The problem was that the "sacredness, oneness and unity" had become degraded and reduced to the legalistic tradition of the Pharisees. Jesus restored this connection to its earlier Abrahamic condition under the reign of the priest/king/prophet Melchizedek (Hebrews 7). You see a similar event in all of the Axial Age religions. I do not discount them, but they are not my path so I can't comment in much depth either. The entire Axial Age was like a volcano of spirituality erupted and affected the whole of humanity. Jesus just happens to be the part I understand with greater clarity.

Jesus was an extra-dimensional being who enabled a bridge between His divine spiritual dimension and mankind (the Holy Spirit). Christianity will never make any sense if you ignore Jesus' divinity.

John 20:19-31 The Message (MSG) To Believe 19-20 Later on that day, the disciples had gathered together, but, fearful of the Jews, had locked all the doors in the house. Jesus entered, stood among them, and said, Peace to you. Then he showed them his hands and side. 20-21 The disciples, seeing the Master with their own eyes, were exuberant. Jesus repeated his greeting: Peace to you. Just as the Father sent me, I send you. 22-23 Then he took a deep breath and breathed into them. Receive the Holy Spirit, he said. If you forgive someones sins, theyre gone for good. If you dont forgive sins, what are you going to do with them? 24-25 But Thomas, sometimes called the Twin, one of the Twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. The other disciples told him, We saw the Master. But he said, Unless I see the nail holes in his hands, put my finger in the nail holes, and stick my hand in his side, I wont believe it. 26 Eight days later, his disciples were again in the room. This time Thomas was with them. Jesus came through the locked doors, stood among them, and said, Peace to you. 27 Then he focused his attention on Thomas. Take your finger and examine my hands. Take your hand and stick it in my side. Dont be unbelieving. Believe. 28 Thomas said, My Master! My God! 29 Jesus said, So, you believe because youve seen with your own eyes. Even better blessings are in store for those who believe without seeing. 30-31 Jesus provided far more God-revealing signs than are written down in this book. These are written down so you will believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and in the act of believing, have real and eternal life in the way he personally revealed it.

"Be still, and know that I am God."

Student level painting, not wood print.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/bibleandculture/2017/04/16/print-nails-easter-sermon-ckb/

Matthew 28:1-10 The Message (MSG) Risen from the Dead 28 1-4 After the Sabbath, as the first light of the new week dawned, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to keep vigil at the tomb. Suddenly the earth reeled and rocked under their feet as Gods angel came down from heaven, came right up to where they were standing. He rolled back the stone and then sat on it. Shafts of lightning blazed from him. His garments shimmered snow-white. The guards at the tomb were scared to death. They were so frightened, they couldnt move. 5-6 The angel spoke to the women: There is nothing to fear here. I know youre looking for Jesus, the One they nailed to the cross. He is not here. He was raised, just as he said. Come and look at the place where he was placed. 7 Now, get on your way quickly and tell his disciples, He is risen from the dead. He is going on ahead of you to Galilee. You will see him there. Thats the message. 8-10 The women, deep in wonder and full of joy, lost no time in leaving the tomb. They ran to tell the disciples. Then Jesus met them, stopping them in their tracks. Good morning! he said. They fell to their knees, embraced his feet, and worshiped him. Jesus said, Youre holding on to me for dear life! Dont be frightened like that. Go tell my brothers that they are to go to Galilee, and that Ill meet them there.