romansh

OK So Being is more than existence. Again what is this more? What influences this more? What does this mean?

So Being is more than its substrate. Again what is this more? Do influence this more?

Humouring me is always good ? If I may prevail … could you provide a 3 or 4 line summary please thanks

My point Possibility … my belief (or more accurately my world view in this case) was at least in part formed by my environment. If there was a sense of belonging it was not conscious. Not being true to yourself comes after the fact of realizing one no longer believes in something or another. There is a 'conflict' between your family/church/community when it comes to belief. How each of us deal with it is a different matter.

Yep it is an assumption of the analogy that there is an elephant. But in our case blind men are feeling the universe and some are claiming they are feeling things that might not be there. In my case, I don't feel these things and I think I can understand how one might be tricked into these imaginations … so to speak. I am quite happy to accept that pantheism as potentially true, or at least some versions of pantheism.

Thank Possibility … that is very kind of you. The blind men/elephant analogy gets a bit interesting though when one blind man says, "I think it feels like an elephant", and the others disagree. ?

Here is a foreigner and how he sees one aspect of the current administration. Of course this particular foreigner does have a dog in the fight. Having said that he does not get all his news from the CNN and MSNBC And Trump's response

I was describing how I use the word I … My physical body is doing the proximate typing. Phenomenon seems to have two meanings … in juxtaposition to noumenon and the more scientific observation. Not mutually exclusive … but? This reminds of the three weeks I spent in Mexico in February. For those weeks I was blissfully unaware of Trump's actions, but I was not outside (independent) of his shenanigans during this time. Being deeply asleep is not being outside of time and space. I am not independent. It is simply not being aware.

So what are the negative aspects of religion?

I agree here Joseph (sort of) ... it is just that we have multiple I s here, "i", I the physical - my arbitrary boundary, and I the universe that unfolds. The I is in a deep sleep not beyond time and space in some way, at least as far as I can tell. When I die, I will fade: my local entropy will increase. I will continue to unfold quite nicely thank you.

Did you watch the video?

Could be ... but we don't know. So again why would nothing be a default position? Not sure of your intent here ... but I agree with the final phrase. Yes ... lets be agnostic about it. And talk about things we can actually point to.

Did you watch it Joseph? Perhaps we should put hazard warnings/metaphors on some of those stepping stones?

It is also as far as we can see or perhaps understand Nothing could literally be a figment of our imagination. Then we can accept the possibility that nothing does not exist. The closest to nothing I get is when I am in a deep sleep. The blackness and me appear as I become awake. When I am deep asleep there is no I or "i", but the universe keeps on ticking in my absence as it will when I die. The nothing you imagine is totally in your imagination.

Some negative aspects of some religions

It could be that it is just a beginning? And yet it has implications for how we view existence. So the universe might be finite? So what? Again I suggest Krauss's video. Nothing is not what it seems. We think we can imagine nothing. But what do you envisage when you imagine nothing? Me? I can see a blackness and there is me perceiving it. Not exactly nothing. In Krauss's words (sort of) physicists deal with the real nothing, not some imagined nothing. Here's a nice video of Krauss explaining "nothing".

Personally I don't know how and if this universe is bound. It might be infinite is some shape or form, it might not. It makes no difference in the "now". But that energy has a reduced capacity to do stuff. Second Law of thermodynamics. Why is nothing the default state?

I watched this last night ... I thought it was interesting. Ten years with FOX if I understood right.

Possibly ... but the nature of that illusion is debatable. Does pressing keys on the keyboard cause letters to come up on my screen? Possibly it is all set at the formation of this particular universe?

This is a pointing to group selection Paul ... generally this is not accepted. by evolution scientists. These sort of things are more like conning the group by conning oneself. If you are looking for a traditional Christian point of view that accepts an old Earth and Evolution, then I will stay out of your way. ?

Well I do think the original sin was thinking in terms of good and evil. Genesis 3:22 counsels us not to think in terms of this particular duality. If we substitute morality for sin ... then evolutionary psychology can make some sense these kind of moral/sinful emotions. Whether it is accurate or not is open to some debate.

I think we do (or at least can) take on the beliefs of the environment that we find ourselves. An anecdotal story. When my wife and I first came to Canada ... I was lucky I could go to work. But my wife had little community so to speak. Anyway she was befriended by the local United Church. Fair enough. But the wife being neither confirmed nor even baptized started taking baptism classes. I happen to take a look at the lessons and relevant passages. They seemed sort of familiar ... they looked awfully like the confirmation classes I had taken when I was seventeen. I can remember my pastor describing confirmation like a marriage to Christ. Anyway I asked my wife did she really believe all that was being promoted in the classes. She answered "No". At that point for reasons that are not clear to me, she and the congregation drifted apart. But she did remain friends with one. My wife is a living breathing example of how 'community' affects our beliefs. edit And speaking of the United Church ... A little off topic and for discussion elsewhere I saw/heard Gretta Vosper speak at the Imagine No Religion conference last year. May be of interest ... bridging progressive Christianity and atheism?

Here's a video of Bruce's The Self Illusion but I do recommend his short book.

And if they explain how they to these beliefs and beliefs in general then it will be on topic. Just stating beliefs is not on topic. Why don't you go with my flow? And I am doing my best to direct traffic here. If you are interested in creators then create an appropriate thread and pin it down there. If you can explain how you come to a belief in a creator then that would be interesting and relevant to the thread. I do understand that threads, topics etc do flow into one another ... but we can draw an illusory line and try and keep the place tidy.

They are not the same ... they are one in the sense you and the universe would not be what they are without one another. But again the topic is how we form beliefs.