romansh

I agree whole heartedly with both of these statements. It seems to me that things must be this way. Dutch let me explore a little further your statement here. In your model Nothing is outside nature, would god fall into this category? In that, is god subject to cause and effect just like the rest of creation?

Interesting - we'll see what the other pundits think of this. 'Unnatural' is something that promotes 'unnatural' behaviour.

Dutch Is that what unnatural means for you - immoral? I will try avoid defining the words for you, feel free to use your own interpretation And for you George, mental illness you define as unnatural. Is this any illness (for example a tumour affecting one's behaviour) or just specifically psychological mental illnesses?

Is man part of nature; is so is there anything he can do that is unnatural? comment: I have started this thread in the past on other fora and it can be quite divisive, So be forwarned. For the record my position is yes and no.

Hi Rob Speaking as a devout agnostic, I don't quite see it the same way as you. I like Joseph Cambell's interpretation of the Garden of Eden Story - Adam and Eve got kicked out of the Garden of Eden for gaining a knowledge of good and evil. So to get back into the Garden of Eden (metaphorically speaking) we have to give up thinking in dualities: ie no more Jesus/Judas, God/Satan. Ditto for man and God. This is what was meant when Christ said "I and my Father are one". We too should endeavour to be Christlike. Be one with God and not merely have the holy spirit in us.