murmsk

In spite of my comfortableness with the whole petitionary prayer thing... I would ask for prayers that "Gracious Faith" would become the norm rather than the exception steve

For me progressiveness is not having to make excuses, while living in a sense of purpose. I am perfectly comfortable with bible passages that conflict, I no longer feel a clash between my spirituality and science or reason. I don't have to rationalize. steve

Lars and the real girl The Ultimate gift One of the Star Trek movies (help my Riv) The Final Frontier??? It is the one where they go looking for God. Some might call it an atheist movie but to met it shows the problems with the "Man Behind The Curtain" view of God. Several Documentaries " The Bible tells me so" talks about religious bigotry toward GLBT the historic Jesus PBS and ABC specials steve

Id agree with that but I do think technology has the ability to facilitate education which may in turn speedup if not change mindsets. Indecently this works in both directions (positive and negative). steve

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I will check them out. steve

I am looking for a Bible Commentary. All the ones I have looked are might just as well have been written in the 1700's, Are their any Bible Commentaries written from a progressive view point? If not, that might be a good project. steve

As someone who is a member of a progressive church that is trying to learn how to fight the fight so to speak I find these discussions not only useful but critical. If we are going to engage in debate with our conservative cousins and hope to convince anyone it is critical that we fully understand their position and arguments so arguments to these positions can be formulated and practiced. We have to help each other hone our skills. We can't afraid of debate we must learn from it. I just finished reading MLK's "Letter from the Birmingham Jail" Text of letter Several things struck me: In the section where he discusses his disappointment in the moderate white church he says "First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods......" Ask your self are we guilt of this still? We must push the debate with the moderate churches. He goes on to say: "There was a time when the church was very powerful--in the time when the early Christians rejoiced at being deemed worthy to suffer for what they believed. In those days the church was not merely a thermometer that recorded the ideas and principles of popular opinion; it was a thermostat that transformed the mores of society. Whenever the early Christians entered a town, the people in power became disturbed and immediately sought to convict the Christians for being "disturbers of the peace" and "outside agitators."' But the Christians pressed on, in the conviction that they were "a colony of heaven," called to obey God rather than man. Small in number, they were big in commitment. They were too God-intoxicated to be "astronomically intimidated." By their effort and example they brought an end to such ancient evils as infanticide and gladiatorial contests. Things are different now. So often the contemporary church is a weak, ineffectual voice with an uncertain sound. So often it is an archdefender of the status quo. Far from being disturbed by the presence of the church, the power structure of the average community is consoled by the church's silent--and often even vocal--sanction of things as they are. But the judgment of God is upon the church as never before. If today's church does not recapture the sacrificial spirit of the early church, it will lose its authenticity, forfeit the loyalty of millions, and be dismissed as an irrelevant social club with no meaning for the twentieth century. Every day I meet young people whose disappointment with the church has turned into outright disgust." We should be encouraging this debate. I think what Spong means in his manifesto is that he refuses to spend any time considering their point of view not that he won't try and change it. steve

Phillip Gulley wrote a book on grace that was very good too. " If Grace is true : Why God will save everyone? or something like that. steve

I'm satisfied and I Know it

I would add Congregationalist NACCC to the list. The true congregational churches are a mixed bag with some being quite conservative and others quite progressive. United Church of Christ UCC is generally the most progressive denomination from top to bottom. They are the only denomination to have made it completely through the ordination of GBTG. Episcopals can be progressive. They too are working their way through the ordination of GLBT but are still in a bit of turmoil. Some Disciples of Christ "Christian" Churches are pretty progressive . I would visit and ask for a meeting with the pastor then ask where he sits and where the rest of the congregation sits. Ya have to ask both questions steve