AletheiaRivers

I'd have to say that your impression closely mirrors my own. I owe a huge debt to Borg for offering me an alternative to fundamentalist Christianity at a point in my life when I wouldn't have entertained a Christian theological position any further to the right than his. However, in the past year or so, I've been creeping slightly to the right in my own beliefs and have been delighted to find authors like Yancey and Campolo who, although more conservative than I, come a bit closer (not on all points of course) to my current views. CS Lewis, Brian McLaren, Harold Kushner (Jewish) and Keith Ward are favorites as well.

PS - Just seeing your second post. Perhaps I am espousing a "museum display" with my view, but museums serve an important function to those who learn from the displays.

Like I said, you're probably right. I just know how I have benefited from having such debates put into book form. Seeing different view points, tit for tat, has allowed me to compare these views more easily, rather than bouncing from book to book to book to get different views on any given theological position. (I know a book offering differing opinions is a far cry from an actual live debate.) The question fin my mind is - who is the debate for? If the purpose of the debate is to convince your "opponent" then I agree, it's a collosal waste of time (because as you said, interpretive choices have been made and minds are made up). But if those involved view the debate as an opportunity to offer differing views to an audience (who might not have their minds made up) then I think such discussions have merit. I've certainly benefited from them. And yeah, if an individual has his mind made up and has no desire to defend his position against an opposing view, then he shouldn't have to.

I find it highly ironic that JW's, who do so very much to avoid anything having "pagan" connotations (no Christmas, halloween or birthdays, no saying "bless you" after sneezes, no throwing rice at weddings) embrace the "mystery religion" (ie pagan) view of baptism. All who are baptised must be of an age to demonstrate that they understand what sin is and that they are avoiding engaging in any sinful behavior. All candidates must study (with a teacher) at least two books (published by the WTS) that teach the JW view of the Bible (usually takes about 2 years). All baptismal candidates are interviewed by congregational elders and have to answer a series of questions pertaining to sin, purity and doctrine. I know most churches operate the same way, but not many denominations are as concerned about cleansing all pagan customs from the practice of Christianity as JW's are. Hmmm, maybe I should send them an email? I wonder what they would do, reinstitute daily baptisms as ancient Jews did in order to be more "Biblical"? I wonder if Jesus, being Jewish, was (1) baptised more than once or (2) if he intended to start a new custom? The question of just how "Jewish" Christianity really is (ala NT Wright) has been bugging me over the past few days. Some days I find it very enlightening to look at Jesus (and the New Testament) through completely "Jewish lenses." Other days I wonder if Jesus being Jewish was just a "coincidence." I've read a couple of good articles this past week as to why Jews truely do not believe Jesus was their messiah and I've read a couple of good articles as to why some believe Christianity is not Jewish in origin at all (not syncrestic to Judaism) (outside of Jesus being Jewish), but is actually a mystery religion that just happens to have some Jewish flavor. I'm so confused!

I think of the book between Borg and Wright - engaging, respectful, both views with merit. Perhaps if the discussion was between those who hold different views, but also have respect for the other view? Perhaps a discussion between those who used to be liberal and those who used to be conservative but are now the opposite or are now moderate? I guess you're probably right Fred, people being people.

Agreed. I also agree with you Darby that if we are going to call ourselves Christians, and if the only record we have of Jesus is in what we call the New Testament (and some would say the coptic and gnostic writings), then we need to be willing to give a little credence to what the NT has to say. (I'm not saying anyone here is suggesting tossing out the Jewish or Christian scriptures, but I have spoken to liberal Christians who pretty much espouse that idea.) And yes, I do believe in mystical experience and I believe that the Spirit can "speak to" individuals (which the Bible also says), but I think what the scriptures say about Jesus needs to enter into it somewhere. It's taken me a long time to move past my "fundamentalist" AND my liberal views of the Bible (which for a very long time I thought were my only two choices.)

LOL Mary! Aletheia (admitting the the description STILL made her think of Pierce Brosnan )

Tom Hanks is my all time favorite actor and Forrest Gump is my all time favorite movie, so I imagine I'll like him just fine in DaVinci Code. I do agree, however, that when I read the book I had Langdon pictured as a "reluctant geek" as well (cute, but somewhat geeky). Ben Afleck's face comes to mind. Maybe Jude Law or James Spader? Kiefer Sutherland? Heck, I'm just happy they DIDN'T cast Tom Cruise or Mel Gibson or Harrison Ford or Pierce Brosnan (although he was incredibly yummy in The Thomas Crown affair).

I found a good article (a bit long) about both Wheaton and Fuller: The Opening of the Evangelical Mind - Boston College Article

I really hope all goes well. As a fellow pet owner I sympathize. I hurt when my feline family hurts. You and atticus are in my prayers.

I'm just trying to figure out where it is that mystictrek said "everyone knows." It's funny, I can't seem to find it. Atheists want to blame Hitler on the Christians and Christians want to blame Hitler on the atheists. Good grief. He was an evil person, no matter what his theology (or lack of it) and he used both (religion and the lack of religion) when it suited his purposes.

I imagine it comes from believing that humanity and the earth are fallen and sinful. Nothing says "sin" (in many minds) like sex (even in marriage) and Jesus was "without sin" (according to some and depending on their definition of "sin"). I was taken with the idea that Jesus might have been married after reading The DaVinci Code. It soon lost its appeal, not because it offends me. The novelty of it just wore off. If Jesus was the pre-existent Son of God or if Jesus was God incarnate, I wonder where, why and how marriage would have fit into the "grand scheme" of things. I do, however, think Mary and Martha had a special place in Jesus' affections. I think perhaps that Mary really was an apostle. Anyway ... rambling ...

I've never seen "Jesus Christ Superstar" although I did have the soundtrack growing up (it was one of my aunts I think). I've also never seen "Oklahoma", "Fiddler on the Roof", or "Hair". Anyone seen "The Last Temptation of Christ"? Was it any good or was it that decade's version of Gibson's "Passion"?

ROFLMAO!!! I think of baptism as an outward show of dedication to God. I still appreciate the symbolism of being immersed (as opposed to sprinkled) and coming out of the water as being reborn to a new way of life.

Even though I've seen the entire series already, my hubby and I are going to wait until the series plays through again on SciFi. I want the entire story fresh in my mind before I go see the movie. Oh, and in case anyone didn't know, Buffy and Firefly (Serenity's series is called Firefly) are by the same person. I do hope he (Whedon) does something else for TV soon. In the meantime I'm starting to enjoy: Prison Break, Surface, Invasion, Threshold, Ghost Whisperer and Supernatural along with my old faves CSI, Law and Order, House, Desperate Housewives and Lost. Dang I'm glad I have a DVR so I can watch these things when I have time, or I'd always be in front of the TV.

Thanks for the links Rog. I especially liked what the author of the blog had to say: Comparitive religion is somewhat of a hoby of mine and I give credit to that interest in bringing me back to Christianity, because in my studies, I found Christianity to hold the most "truth", both philosophically and theologically. I appreciate much of Taoism and Zen and think that they have alot to offer philosophically. The Zen concept of life being a journey that we shouldn't miss because we are so focused on a destination, is something I try to remind myself of regularly. Stop and smell the roses, in other words. Much of Christianity is "gotta get to heaven ... gotta survive God's war ... gotta avoid hell ... " Those are interpretations of the Bible that miss the point, imo. I hold to a modified Christus Victor view of the cross. (I don't think Jesus was a legalistic, judicial style, ransom, propitiatory sacrifice for my sins.) I do think Jesus' death was a snub at the authorities (both material and immaterial) and a defiant snub at death. I think the resurrection has as much to teach us about the meaning of Jesus as his death did, and I think his life example, of course, is just as important as the other two.

Ah Carl, I'm so sorry! Can a doctor do anything to help? I don't know much about heart worm. It isn't treatable is it?

I guess I was including her running away from home in the first place as being part of her desire to leave. She did it to protect Toto, but she also felt like no one would listen to her and that no one understood her. ROFLMAO! I'm trying to picture a musical (ala Fidler on the Roof) with some of Jesus' parables as the source material.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but I am a BIG fan of the series and watch the reruns every friday night on SciFi. I haven't noticed any religious overtones to the series, but that might be because I'm so busy laughing my butt of at the great writing. I was a huge fan of Buffy the Vampire Slayer as well. I'm not ashamed to admit it! River's character (the girl who can kick butt) was in the process of being explained and developed when the series was cancelled. Stupid TV station!

Rob - Wonderful post! Thanks for sharing so deeply. It really brought a smile to my face this morning. Feel free to email me at theparisfam @ hotmail . com. I too love to correspond via email. Also my yahoo messenger ID is aletheiarivers. Of course I have an email addy there too, but I never check it.

I haven't read any of Boyd's books yet (just some online stuff), but he still on my "to read" list. I'm struck by the idea that Jesus' death, as an act of self-sacrificing love, may have been the path of least resistance. He could have run, he could have hidden, he could have fought, but he didn't. He (in that instance at least) was a passivist. He went with "the flow". He put his "fate" in the hands of the authorities and let them take him where they wanted. I'm not trying to marry Taoism to Christianity. I do see the fundamental differences in the philosophies, but still ... Any thoughts?

Something that popped into my mind as I read your post and thought about the stories was that both Dorothy and the prodigal son may have had all they ever needed while they were at home, but it took leaving, traveling, discovering, learning, seeing "what's out there" and dealing with hardship, for each of them to realize it. They didn't appreciate what home was and they didn't appreciate the love of their parents (aunty Em) until they walked away from all of it and realized what they had given up.

Hehehehehe As I sit here reading the posts this morning, in front of me on my desk sits "The Idiots Guide to Simple Living" and "Affluenza." Both great books about consumerism and what it's doing to the planet. You have a fellow "Simple Living" wannabee here on this forum! And I agree, it's not all that simple.

Welcome to the board bloved!

I finished "Reaching for the Invisible God" not too long ago and I absolutely loved it. I'm currently reading "The Jesus I Never Knew." Just like "Reaching" I'm blown away at how Yancey, a relatively conservative evangelical Christian, can constantly touch my heart, open my eyes, read my mind and help me look at things in new ways. I just finished the chapter in "The Jesus I Never Knew" called "Showdown in the Desert" about the Temptation. WOW! I'll never look at it the same way again.