BrotherRog

I think the main reasons that Jim refers to himself as an Evangelical are 1) because he was raised as one and he feels no need to leave that family of faith; 2) because he realizes that he will better be able to sway the hearts and minds of more conservative evangelicals if he get them to percieve him as a fellow brother of theirs. He focuses upon common ground that he has with them, and then is able to help them to see the more progressive implications of their shared beliefs. To learn more about Jim Wallis, visit http://www.sojo.net; read Sojourners Magazine; and check out some of the books he's written: e.g. The Call to Conversion (the book that put him on the map) The Soul of Politics: Beyond Religious Right and Secular Left God's Politics: Why the Religious Right is Wrong and why the Left Doesn't Get it Learn about them by reading the reviews at http://www.amazon.com FYI, here are the Sojourner Community's equivalent to TCPC's 8 beliefs: 1. Hope is believing in spite of the evidence, and watching the evidence change. & 2. the following which has been attributed to Ghandi: The Seven Deadly Social Sins: Politics without Principle; Wealth without Work; Commerce without Morality; Pleasure without Conscience; Education without Character; Science Without Humanity; Worship without Sacrifice.[/b]

To learn more about Jim Wallis, visit http://www.sojo.net; read Sojourners Magazine; and check out some of the books he's written: e.g. The Call to Conversion (the book that put him on the map) The Soul of Politics: Beyond Religious Right and Secular Left God's Politics: Why the Religious Right is Wrong and why the Left Doesn't Get it Learn about them by reading the reviews at http://www.amazon.com FYI, here are the Sojourner Community's equivalent to TCPC's 8 beliefs: 1. Hope is believing in spite of the evidence, and watching the evidence change. & 2. the following which has been attributed to Ghandi: The Seven Deadly Social Sins: Politics without Principle; Wealth without Work; Commerce without Morality; Pleasure without Conscience; Education without Character; Science Without Humanity; Worship without Sacrifice.[/b]

I don't recall Jim speaking directly to this question. However, I he self-identifies as a Bible-believing, evangelical Christian. He is frankly more conservative than most of the people in this forum. But, he is clearly an ally that we would do well to learn about and work with. ---------- On a related note: Christianity in Chains? Pulse of the Twin Cities Thursday 20 January @ 12:52:25 An interview with progressive clergy by Brian Kaller http://pulsetc.com/article.php?sid=1594

Christianity in Chains? Pulse of the Twin Cities Thursday 20 January @ 12:52:25 An interview with progressive clergy by Brian Kaller http://pulsetc.com/article.php?sid=1594

Christianity in Chains? Pulse of the Twin Cities Thursday 20 January @ 12:52:25 An interview with progressive clergy by Brian Kaller http://pulsetc.com/article.php?sid=1594

I happen to be one who values the Gospels as primary over other scriptures - including Paul's letters. This said, I think Paul has gotten a bad rap by many liberals. Most of the verses that are seen as most misogynistic (sp?) are found in what scholars refer to as the Pastoral Epistles, i.e. letters that were not written by Paul, but some of which were written in his name. Paul was actually very egalitarian for his day and he supported several women serving as heads of various churches.

FYI, numerous Jim Wallis speaking events have been held in U.U. venues, and many more have been sponsored by Unity Church and U.U. congregations. I personally coordinated Jim's last speaking engagement in Denver (from the Denver end of things) so I know whereof I speak.

I've had a few epiphanies, but nothing compares to the night that I sensed my call to ministry. I felt God's presence in the room with me in a profound and even tangible way. I sensed God's voice (though I don't think a tape recorder would've picked it up). I was shocked, comforted, loved, and challenged. I'd rather not go into the details as this tends to overly intellectualize and demiracle the experience.

For clarity: Jim Wallis is a progressive Evangelical Christian. He would not likely subscribe to all of the 8 points of tcpc. He is best viewed as an ally rather than as "one of us." Or perhaps, what we mean by "us" might be more generously inclusive.. Wallis takes the Bible probably more seriously, and a tad more literally, than many in this community do. He is conservative on some matters, and yet, what he means by conservative actually embraces what has come to be called liberal these days.

For clarity: Jim Wallis is a progressive Evangelical Christian. He would not likely subscribe to all of the 8 points of tcpc. He is best viewed as an ally rather than as "one of us." Or perhaps, what we mean by "us" might be more generously inclusive.. Wallis takes the Bible probably more seriously, and a tad more literally, than many in this community do. He is conservative on some matters, and yet, what he means by conservative actually embraces what has come to be called liberal these days.

FYI... Rescuing Religion From the Right The Rev. Jim Wallis says gay marriage and abortion aren't the only values-related issues religious people care about. Interview by Rebecca Phillips http://www.beliefnet.com/story/159/story_15988_1.html Who's Who on the Religious Left Beliefnet's guide to some of the major figures on the liberal side of religion and politics. http://www.beliefnet.com/story/159/story_15998_1.html

Rescuing Religion From the Right The Rev. Jim Wallis says gay marriage and abortion aren't the only values-related issues religious people care about. Interview by Rebecca Phillips http://www.beliefnet.com/story/159/story_15988_1.html Who's Who on the Religious Left Beliefnet's guide to some of the major figures on the liberal side of religion and politics. http://www.beliefnet.com/story/159/story_15998_1.html

from an email from http://www.sojo.net From book tour to movement tour by Jim Wallis It's only the second week of the book tour for God's Politics: Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the Left Doesn't Get It, but already I'm convinced that the country is ready for a new discussion of faith and politics - one the Religious Right will not control. All the venues so far have been packed with audiences more diverse than we've ever seen. And we've had lots of fun with the media appearances that have brought a progressive faith message to more and more people. One of the most fun was The Daily Show with Jon Stewart. You can read my behind-the-scenes reflections on that experience in the blog I've started at http://www.sojo.net/Godspolitics . Perhaps the most gratifying thing to me about the past two weeks has been the flood of e-mails, many from young people, in response to The Daily Show and other appearances. Most were personal and heartfelt. Many said they had lost their faith because of "Republican religion," George W. Bush, television preachers, or the war in Iraq. Others said they never knew people of faith could be against the war, concerned about poverty, or care about the environment. What became clear is how many people have never seen, heard, or imagined a progressive faith option, a Christian social conscience, or a connection between their spiritual hunger and their passion for social justice. People have come up to my family in restaurants, stopped me in train stations, or walked up to me on the street just to say "Thank you," or "I feel like we have a voice now," or "I am young, religious, progressive, and you speak for me." Often they say that they feel the possibility of faith again - or for the first time - and hope that we could make a difference. Many said that the Terry Gross interview on NPR really felt like "fresh air" to them in offering a new spiritual and political option. I got to quote Amos during NBC's inaugural coverage: "Take away from me the noise of your solemn assemblies, but let justice roll down like waters and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream." I was able to share Jesus' words about "the least of these" from Matthew 25 - on Comedy Central! On Hardball, Chris Matthews (who was one of the few television journalists consistently critical of the war in Iraq) and I talked about how the Bush doctrine of extending "freedom" just ends up killing people, and we raised the issue of tens of thousands of civilians killed in Iraq. And on Charlie Rose, we had one of the first conversations about religion, values, and politics I've ever seen on his show. Now we're traveling city to city, to almost every region of the country. We're doing public forums in campuses, churches, and bookstores. Check our Web site to see when the tour comes near you, or organize new events that could offer a different perspective on faith and politics in your community, as many people are now doing. We also were gratified (actually, "stunned" best describes my reaction) when God's Politics quickly climbed up the Amazon best-seller list (thanks almost exclusively to SojoMail readers like you who bought the book early), and we were told it will appear on this Sunday's New York Times best-seller list. That means that a progressive religious option will be in the front of bookstores across America. At last, we'll be better able to present the culture with an alternative to the Religious Right. This book tour is fast becoming a movement tour. Thanks be to God. -------- Jim Wallis on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart http://www.comedycentral.com/mp/play.jhtml...eleb_10009.html

re: I mean that it should be interpreted according to the author's original intent. But alas, this is impossible as none of those original author's are with us today. Granted, the Holy Spirit aides us in reading the Good Book, but NONE of us can ever claim with 100% certainty that we are reading it with the "author's actual intent." Hence, the variety of legitmate (and not so legitimate) interpretations.

Here's another EXCELLENT book about these matters: Wes Howard Brook, N.T. scholar (in the Ched Meyer's school of thought), wrote Unveiling Empire: Reading Revelation Then & Now; this book totally undermines the "Left Behind" notions and instead posits that Revelation was written to serve as a handbook to help Christian believers live as faithfully as possible in the midst of empire... much like we are trying to do now! See also these other related threads on this bulletin board: The Rapture Belief Exposed, TCPC Article On Rapture+My Thoughts:) http://tcpc.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=157 Armageddon - are we there yet? http://tcpc.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=74

A.R., I'd say that Boyd's book is the easiest to read - least technical. Cynthia, evangel = good news

See also: The Center for Process Studies - A Relational Worldview for the ... ... Purpose. The Center for Process Studies is a faculty center of Claremont School of Theology, and affiliated with Claremont Graduate University. ... http://www.ctr4process.org/

Re: the original post on this thread, Here's some book titles that speak to this - all very good - some are from a process theology perspective, others are from the somewhat similar evangelical "openness theology" view: Omnipotence & Other Theological Mistakes, Charles Hartshorne Process Theology: A Basic Introduction, C. Robert Mesle Process Theology: An Introductory Exposition, Johan Cobb, Jr & David Ray Griffin God, Christ, Church: A Practical Guide to Process Theology, Marjorie Hewitt Suchocki Most Moved Mover: A Theology of God's Openness, Clark Pinnock God of the Possible: A Biblical Introduction to the Open View of God, Greg Boyd See http://www.amazon.com to read reviews of these books, but get them from your library or obtain them via your local independent bookstore.

This is a good book. A nice antidote to the Left Behind madness of late. To read editorial descriptions and reviews, search for that title at http://www.amazon.com - but, try to obtain it from your local independent bookstore! : )

..which reminds me of the old joke: Diapers and politicians need to be changed, often for the same reason... ; )

Fyi, read these articles carefully - some important distinctions: ---------------- REVEAL: Leaving the International Churches of Christ (ICC) (ICOC)An Organization of Former Members of the International Churches of Christ (ICC), Boston Church of Christ/"Boston Movement", and Crossroads Church of Christ ... http://www.reveal.org/ The REVEAL Library: From the CofC to the Boston Movement... In the late 1970s a controversial movement, commonly known as the Boston Church of Christ or Boston Movement, arose within the American Restorationist Churches ... http://www.reveal.org/library/history/paden.html Bibliography of the International Churches of Christ / Boston ...... An Examination of the Boston Movement in Relation to Thought-Reform Criteria," all by Carol Giambalvo; "The Boston Church of Christ at Boston University," by ... http://www.unc.edu/~elliott/iccbib.htm International Churches Of Christ: Who They Are, What They Do, How ...... The movement's churches generally take on the name of the place in which they are located, eg: Boston Church of Christ, Los Angeles Church of Christ, London ... http://www.apologeticsindex.org/i02.html The Boston Church of Christ... Phone: 978-663-4620. © 2004 Boston Church of Christ. All rights reserved. website powered by Genesis © Design by Major Web Developers, Inc. http://www.bostoncoc.org/ Church of Christ, Scientist Official web site of the Mother Church, the First Church of Christ, Scientist in Boston, Massachusetts. http://www.tfccs.com/ Church of Christ, Boston... The Boston Church of Christ, The Crossroads Movement, Multiplying Ministries, The Discipling Movement, The International Church of Christ, The London Church of ... http://www.carm.org/icc/icc.htm The Watchman Expositor: Boston / International Church of Christ ...... Boston Church of Christ / International Church of Christ. ... Not only must one be baptized, but one must also be baptized in the Boston Church of Christ. ... http://www.watchman.org/profile/bostnpro.htm International Church of Christ aka Boston Church of Christ, Kip ...Boston Church of Christ, International Churches of Christ, Discipling Movement, Kip McKean, Discipling. NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE ... http://www.rickross.com/groups/icc.html

The following was something I previously stated on another thread: -------- One of my main peeves about New Age thought is it's hyper-individualism. Its focus is upon "personal fulfillment" and "self-actualization" which is hardly what Christianity is primarily about. Such perspectives miss the important social and corporate nature of salvation and God's kingdom.

Des, Wow. You indeed are very high functioning! I guess I'm sort of interested in the fact that you tend to take things literally (something Fundamentalists often do with their interpretation of the Bible) and yet you are cleary progressive in your faith. I wonder if you've ever thought about this irony and what you make of it. Also, I wonder if you take the Bible literally and are progressive because of that (this would be an interesting dynamic), or if you are progressive in that you tend not to take it literally.

Yeah, I hear you Des. I guess IMO, if there is a hell at all, it's a self-imposed one; i.e. when certain people die, they may choose to damn themselves by not opting to not receive the grace and love and communal warmth that God intends for them. They may be souls who feel unworthy of such grace and who punish themselves by essentially putting themselves into a corner away from the party. I'd like to think that such souls would eventually become softened to the point of accepting the grace intended for them. I suppose Hitler, Stalin, etc. might be examples of persons who might not feel good about accepting God's love and grace. But again, the way I see it, souls may accept or reject the grace that God intends.

Is Hell eternal? Comparing Traditionalism with Annihilationism ... Annihilationism (aka Conditionalism): This belief states that unsaved individuals will be punished in Hell only for a period of time that is proportional to ... http://www.religioustolerance.org/hel_eter.htm - 13k - Cached - Similar pages Annihilationism ... The distinction between conditionalism and annihilationism, as indicated above, is frequently not observed, and these two terms are commonly used as practical ... http://www.mb-soft.com/believe/txn/annihila.htm