BrotherRog

correction: make that "relatively like-minded, KINDERED spirits.." - there aren't many hindered spirits in here : )

make that relatively like-minded KINDERED spirits... not many of us are hindered in here! : )

Revs, I'd like to encourage you to review the description of the various forums within this website. The Progressive Christianity forum is largely intended as a safe place for relatively like-minded, hindered progressive spirits to interact with each other. Its seen by many as a haven from the more conservative and fundamentalist "Christianity" bulletin boards and chat-rooms. If you'd like to debate and/or try to persuade folks as to the merits of traditional conservative theology, I'd encourage you to do so on the Debates forum. Thank you for your attention and respectful consideration.

Rev, I'd like to encourage you to review the description of the various forums within this website. The Progressive Christianity forum is largely intended as a safe place for relatively like-minded, hindered progressive spirits to interact with each other. Its seen by many as a haven from the more conservative and fundamentalist "Christianity" bulletin boards and chat-rooms. If you'd like to debate and/or try to persuade folks as to the merits of traditional conservative theology, I'd encourage you to do so on the Debates forum. Thank you for your attention and respectful consideration.

“God entered into our world not with the crushing impact of unbearable glory, but in the way of weakness, vulnerability and need. On a wintry night in an obscure cave, the infant Jesus was a humble, naked, helpless God who allowed us to get close to him. We all know how difficult it is to receive anything from someone who has all the answers, who is completely cool, utterly unafraid, needing nothing and in control of every situation. We feel unnecessary, unrelated to this paragon. So God comes as a newborn baby, giving us a chance to love him, making us feel that we have something to give him.” - Brennan Manning Jesus observed, “Without me you can do nothing.” Yet we act, for the most part, as though without us God can do nothing. We think we have to make Christmas come, which is to say we think we have to bring about the redemption of the universe on our own. When all God needs is a willing womb, a place of safety, nourishment, and love. “Oh, but nothing will get done,” you say. “If I don’t do it, Christmas won’t happen.” But why not try it? Leave behind your briefcase and notes. Leave behind your skills and your knowledge. Leave the Christmas decorations up in the attic. Go and find someone in need. - Loretta Ross-Gotta Both of these quotes appear in Watch for the Light: Readings for Advent and Christmas (Plough/Orbis, 2004).

1. The UMC wasn't created until 1968 via the merger of the Methodist Church and the United Evangelical Bretheran Church. 2. Anne of Green Gables is a work of historical fiction. 3. Methodists have never leaned toward fundamentalism - though they did emerge out of a Holiness movement - but the more conservative types split off to become the Salvation Army, the Church of the Nazarene, or the various independent Methodist denominations.

Heck, why not become a paid sponsor of shows on NPR (National Public Radio)?! Why not put bill boards up on the streets and place them on buses at bus stops, etc? All that's needed is some money. Perhaps George Soros or the Lily Foundation might be tapped?

Some off hand thoughts: 1. Not all progressive Christians need be Unitarian Universalists. 2. Though there may be many commonalities, there is a difference between a "progressive Christian" and a "progressive Jew, Muslim, Hindu," etc. The term progressive is an adjective qualifier to the primary noun (i.e. group). 3. This said, I'd rather not get into the business of overly defining boundaries - not a very progressive thing to do. But, though a bunch of flowers may be lovely, there are differences between roses and violets, tulips, etc. - and even within roses themselves.

Great Ideas Beach! I'd also place ads in the Sojourners, The Christian Century, New Zion's Herald, The Door, etc. magazines. I'd also send posters and flyers describing TCPC to seminaries and churches.

A book has been spreading like wildfire across many UM congregations. It is being read by many lay and clergy persons. I've read it and, while it exposes some scary stuff, such exposure is just what's needed to nip this fundamentalit take over in the bud.. ------- http://www.mfsaweb.org/news/NEWSInformatio...ionProject.html United Methodist Leaders Release Book Challenging Ultra-Conservatives April 26, 2003 Right Wing Agenda Challenged in New Publication Contact: Bishop C. Dale White, (401) 847-3419 Organizations leading an ultra-conservative effort to control and reshape The United Methodist Church to fit their agenda are the focus of a book released today by active United Methodist lay and clergy leaders. United Methodism at RISK: A Wake-Up Call shares extensive research to show who is behind the campaign to force the denomination into a narrow political and theological framework. The book was published by the Information Project for United Methodists, co-chaired by Bishop C. Dale White, widely known for his leadership on peace issues, and New York attorney and well-known United Methodist lay leader Beth Capen. Veteran Christian journalist Leon Howell is the author. The books close to 200 pages detail the rise of conservative renewal groupswithin United Methodism and sister denominations, and link their activity to right-wing activity in society. "All United Methodists need to read this book to be fully informed on the tactics, ideological bias and theological restrictions evidenced in the life and work of the conservative renewal groups," Bishop White said in announcing the books release. The direction they would take our church demeans clergy and laity, he said. "It is insulting to the professional integrity of the clergy to dictate to them the precise theological language they must use in the pulpit and Bible studies," Bishop White said. "And its insulting to the laity to assume they cannot be trusted to engage in theological reflection and define their faith according to their own perceptions and conscience. "United Methodists need to challenge the claim of these groups that they are true stewards of Scripture and the Wesleyan tradition. A careful reading of the New Testament and the works of John Wesley should convince discerning church members that the narrow ideological focus and questionable tactics of these groups violate the spirit of the Wesleyan revival." Longtime active United Methodist laywoman Ruth Daugherty of Pennsylvania, a member of the board of the Information Project for United Methodists, shares Bishop Whites concern that people have accurate information about the conservative renewal groups and that dialogue remain open within the denomination. I believe people should be able to ask questions about their faith, Ms. Daugherty said. We need to discuss what is at the heart of Scripture, what is at the very heart of Jesuslife. The United Methodist Church has always been a place where people can openly talk from different perspectives. We talk and pray together for discernment of what God is saying to us through Scripture. When we look at Jesusdisciples, we see he was very accepting of diversity. The church should be similarly accepting, she said. "For Christians, theres only one person who can say he is the truth," she said. "The rest of us are searching for the truth. None of us can say we have it." Ms. Daugherty and Bishop White stressed the Information Project formed to research and publish the book. It is not to be an ongoing group. "We are clergy and laity who came together out of concern forour church," Ms. Daugherty said. "We are not advocates for a particular position, and we are not a group representing various organizations. We simply wanted to get information, not accusations, out to United Methodists. We want people to read the book and raise questions." Among conservative renewal groups named in United Methodism at RISK: A Wake-Up Call are Good News and its Renew Womens Network, the Institute on Religion and Democracy and its UM Action, the Mission Society for United Methodists, the Confessing Movement, Lifewatch, the Association for Church Renewal, A Foundation for Theological Education, Transforming Congregations, and the Coalition for United Methodist Accountability. The book details attacks from these groups on United Methodist Women and the Womens Division of the United Methodist General Board of Global Ministries, the United Methodist General Board of Church and Society, the United Methodist Commission on Religion and Race, and the United Methodist Commission on the Status and Role of Women. The book also: Outlines funding sources that reveal the role of secular money in establishing and sustaining conservative renewal groups, Shares stories of individuals who have been targeted by the groups, Shows the impact of the groups on boards and agencies of the church that are working for social justice and inclusion of all Gods children, Tracks the groupsanti-woman attitudes and efforts toward silencing women in church leadership, Connects the conservative agenda and activity in United Methodism to similar activities in other denominations and beyond the church in political and global arenas, and Offers action ideas to counter the concerted attacks on the integrity of the denomination by these groups. Bishop White said he is involved as a leader of the Information Project for United Methodists because he believes the very heart and soul of United Methodism is at risk. "All of us in this group are passionately committed to The United Methodist Church," he said. I affirm the right of all United Methodists to participate in shaping our church. I am not willing to allow any group to use intimidating tactics to force United Methodists to move lock step in line with its ideological bias. We must stop takeover of these groups that claim to be evangelical while making it more difficult to make and nurture disciples of Jesus Christ." ### Copies of United Methodism at RISK: A Wake-Up Call can be ordered from the Information Project for United Methodists (IPUM). Inquiries for information may be emailed to ipum@aol.com. Cost of the book is $12.50 (includes shipping and handling). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Copies of United Methodism at RISK: A Wake-Up Call can be ordered from The Genesis III Group. Their contact information is as follows: The Genesis III Group P.O. Box 336 Deerfield, NH 03037 Toll Free Phone: (888) 829-2947 Fax: (603) 463-5621 E-Mail: genthree@genesisthree.com Checks should be made out to "MMH Ventures." VISA and MASTERCARD are also accepted. Click here to download the order form. As stated above, the cost of the book is $12.50 (with shipping and handling). Please contact Genesis III for multiple copies. ==== See also: United Methodism @ risk: A wake-up call by Leon Howell http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=glance&s=books

A link to numerous progressive Christian Advent materials: http://sojo.net/index.cfm?action=resources...rep&week=sample

Interesting point - sort of a "upyana" view, but then again, I feel this about certain forms of Hinduism (esp. Bahkti yoga), but again, IMO Hinduism is outside the scope of Christianity. It's a different vehicle.

Fatherman, re: Schucman claimed to dictate a massive revelation from Jesus (more like what Muhammed experienced in the cave). What I mean is that I do not accept Schucman's claim, and IMO, those who do are buying into a "special" interepretation of scritpture that is only accessible to those who buy into the Course on Miracles materials..

Father, I hear you, but there Gnosticism and mysticism are not one and the same. Granted, Gnosticism may be a form/subset of mysticism, but not all forms of Christian mysticism involve special secret interpretations of scripture.

re: In the "60's", two scientists found themselves the channel for the resurrected Jesus to comment on the Bible and its interpretation for today. Hence my opinion that this is merely a form of modern-day Gnosticism; i.e. "secret readings" of the Bible, etc..

Another example of the political asepct of Christmas (i.e. re: poverty) is seen in the original St. Nicholaus (i.e. the bishop from Asia Minor - now Turkey - not Santa Claus). For those who don't know his story, Nicholaus came to a strong faith in Christ at a young age and even wore the red robes of a bishop before he turned 18. He came to inherit great wealth but didn't feel called to be a rich man. His heart ached for the plight of the many poverty stricken families in his region and he felt terrible that so many young girls were resorting to prostitution in order to support their families. So, once a year, he would go around and secretly give away gold coins to the poorest of the families. His practical generosity and love were rememberd by his people, a became known as the patron saint of children, special feast day was created in his honor.. and the rest is history.. until the modern-day capitalists twisted all of this for greedy ambitions.. : (

Now, to take things up a notch or two... Advent economics: Mary's "Magnifcant/Manifesto" "And Mary said, 'My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for God has looked with favor on the lowliness of God's servant. Surely, from now on all generations will call me blessed; for the Mighty One has done great things for me, and holy is God's name. God's mercy is for those who fear God from generation to generation. God has shown strength with God's arm; and has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts. God has brought down the powerful from their thrones, and lifted up the lowly; God has filled the hungry with good things, and sent the rich away empty.'" - Luke 1:46-53

Here's an example of how the right-wingers are trying to attack and subvert the mainline and progressive Christian Church: http://www.zionsherald.org/Jan2004_specialreport.html

Here's another related thread: http://tcpc.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=46

Here's an example of how the right-wingers are trying to attack and subvert the mainline and progressive Christian Church: http://www.zionsherald.org/Jan2004_specialreport.html

“Who Speaks For God?” Series at Minnehaha, UMC, in Minneapolis, MN Jan. 9, 16, 23, and 30. Revs. John Darlington and Bruce Bjork are hosting a January series at Minnehaha UMC entitled "Who Speaks For God?" The focus of the four Sundays is on the building of a morals platform for progressive United Methodists and the community-at-large that is in contra-distinction to the set-in-stone "moral values" agenda of the "Christian Right." The topic for the first workshop in the series on Jan. 9 is: Have We Progressives Lost Our Voice? A Time to Be Silent and a Time to Make Noise. The schedule for Sunday, Jan. 9 is: Sermons (at worship) at 9 a.m. (traditional) and 11:15 a.m. (contemporary) Question and Answer from 10:15 a.m. to 11:10 a.m. Work sessions from 2 to 4 p.m. Potluck and Program from 5 to 7 p.m. Guest speakers to-be-announced. Contact John Darlington at john@minnehaha.org or (612) 721-6231 or Bruce Bjork at (612) 721-8687, ext. 567 with questions. http://www.minnesotaumc.org/ME2/dirmod.asp...F9973AEB23E7E03

“Who Speaks For God?” Series at Minnehaha, UMC, in Minneapolis, MN Jan. 9, 16, 23, and 30. Revs. John Darlington and Bruce Bjork are hosting a January series at Minnehaha UMC entitled "Who Speaks For God?" The focus of the four Sundays is on the building of a morals platform for progressive United Methodists and the community-at-large that is in contra-distinction to the set-in-stone "moral values" agenda of the "Christian Right." The topic for the first workshop in the series on Jan. 9 is: Have We Progressives Lost Our Voice? A Time to Be Silent and a Time to Make Noise. The schedule for Sunday, Jan. 9 is: Sermons (at worship) at 9 a.m. (traditional) and 11:15 a.m. (contemporary) Question and Answer from 10:15 a.m. to 11:10 a.m. Work sessions from 2 to 4 p.m. Potluck and Program from 5 to 7 p.m. Guest speakers to-be-announced. Contact John Darlington at john@minnehaha.org or (612) 721-6231 or Bruce Bjork at (612) 721-8687, ext. 567 with questions. http://www.minnesotaumc.org/ME2/dirmod.asp...F9973AEB23E7E03

Waiting for God Waiting is not a very popular attitude. In fact, most people consider waiting a waste of time. Perhaps this is because the culture in which we live is basically saying, "Get going! Do something! Show you are able to make a difference! Don't just sit there and wait!" For many people, waiting is an awful desert between where they are and where they want to go. And people do not like such a place. They want to get out of it by doing something. In our particular historical situation, waiting is even more difficult because we are so fearful. One of the most pervasive emotions in the atmosphere around us is fear. People are afraid - afraid of inner feelings, afraid of other people, and also afraid of the future. And fearful people have a hard time waiting. - Henri Nouwen

On a related note, see also this thread in the General Discussion Forum: http://tcpc.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=143

Xian, I realize that you didn't ask this question of me, but here is a link to a thread started by Jeep last spring that you might wish to explore: A Course on Miracles http://tcpc.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=49