tariki

The wise who are restrained in body, speech and mind -- such are the well and truly restrained. A little bit of commentary on the last line, drawn from the writings of Ajahn Chah of the Thai Forest Monastic tradition. Ajahn Chah was very strong on the discipline of the Vinaya, the ancient monastic rules laid down for the monks/bhikkhu's in the Theravada Scriptures. Following the Vinaya means we are contained in our speech and action, and accordingly the mind is contained - it is collected. If we are skilled in disciplining speech and action, then the faculty of knowing - mindfulness - is sharp. The mind is as skilled as speech and action, and speech and action are as skilled as the mind. This is religious practice - training of body, speech, and mind. Do everything with a mind that lets go. Don't accept praise or gain or anything else. If you let go a little you will have a little peace; if you let go a lot you will have a lot of peace; if you let go completely you will have complete peace. The Buddha is to be found right in the most simple things in front of you, if you're willing to look. And the essence of this is finding the balance which doesn't hold and which doesn't push away. Speak simply, work simply - simplify everything you do so you will be able to see clearly. If you arrive at wisdom, it will be because you've learned to understand your own body and mind. To know the world means to understand the body/mind processes and vice versa......If you don't know yourself, you don't know the world........if you don't understand the nature of the world, then you do not understand yourself.

Speaking of "names and forms", Cleary states that they mean ideas and objects in general. He goes on to say......clinging to ideas and objects as real or sacred in themselves, rather than as functional or dysfunctional in their place, is a form of idolatry "Overcome evil with good." Cleary comments that Buddhist non-violence is not limited to passive resistance, but also includes active transmutation. There is also much in this chapter that relates to "peer pressure".......we cannot please everyone! So watch yourself, and seek the truth yourself!

ANGER Abandon anger, give up pride, and overcome all fetters. Suffering does nor befall him who is without attachment to names and forms, and possesses nothing of his own. When a man governs his rising anger like a chariot going out of control, that is what I call a charioteer. The rest are just holding the reins. Overcome anger with freedom from anger. Overcome evil with good. Overcome meanness with generosity, and overcome a liar with truthfulness. Speak the truth, don't get angry, and always give, even if only a little, when you are asked. By these three principles you can come into the company of the devas. Those sages who do harm to no-one, and who are always physically restrained, go to the everlasting abode, reaching which they will face no more suffering. Inflowing thoughts come to an end in those who are ever alert of mind, training themselves night and day, and ever intent on nirvana. It was so of old, Atula. It is not just so today. They criticise him who sits in silence, they criticise him who talks a lot. They even criticise him who speaks in moderation. There is not a man in the world who is not criticised. There never has been, there never will be, and there is not now any man exclusively criticised or exclusively praised. If a wise man of unblemished behaviour and endowed with wisdom, morality and stillness of mind, is praised by the discriminating after day in day out acquaintance with him, like a pure gold coin, then who is fit to find fault with him? Even the King of the devas praises him. Guard against physical unruliness. Be restrained in body. Abandoning physical wrong doing, lead a life of physical well doing. Guard against mental unruliness. Be restrained in mind. Abandoning mental wrong doing, lead a life of mental well doing. Guard against verbal unruliness. Be restrained in speech. Abandoning verbal wrong doing, lead a life of verbal well doing. The wise who are restrained in body, speech and mind -- such are the well and truly restrained.

Cleary states that this Chapter "focuses on the simple fact that obsessive pursuit of pleasure causes pain." And a necessary step to inner peace is "understanding the nature and consequences of bondage to compulsive acquisitiveness." such a man is called "One Bound Upstream." Cleary says that to swim against the stream (one bound upstream) means to be immune to the forces of opinion and outmoded habit that ordinarily prevent us from examining our own nature and fate from any new vantage point. There are a few words to be found in "A Study of Chuang Tzu" (Merton) relevant to much of this, where Merton paraphrases Chuang Tzu regarding his understanding of "happiness"..... My greatest happiness consists precisely in doing nothing whatever calculated to obtain happiness........Perfect joy is to be without joy.........if you ask "what ought to be done" and "what ought not to be done" on earth to produce happiness, I answer that these questions do not have a fixed and predetermined answer to suit every case. If one is in harmony with the Tao the answer will make itself clear when the time comes to act, for then one will act not according to the human and self-conscious mode of deliberation, but according to the divine and spontaneous mode of wu wei, which is the mode of action of Tao itself, and is therefore the source of all good. And goes on to point out that the alternative, the way of conscious striving, is in essence a way of self-aggrandizement.

Affection Giving himself to things to be shunned and not exerting where exertion is needed, a seeker after pleasures, having given up his true welfare, envies those intent upon theirs. Seek no intimacy with the beloved and also not with the unloved, for not to see the beloved and to see the unloved, both are painful. Therefore hold nothing dear, for separation from the dear is painful. There are no bonds for those who have nothing beloved or unloved. From endearment springs grief, from endearment springs fear. From him who is wholly free from endearment there is no grief, whence then fear? From affection springs grief, from affection springs fear. From him who is wholly free from affection there is no grief, whence then fear? From attachment springs grief, from attachment springs fear. From him who is wholly free from attachment there is no grief, whence then fear? From lust springs grief, from lust springs fear. From him who is wholly free from craving there is no grief; whence then fear? From craving springs grief, from craving springs fear. From him who is wholly free from craving there is no grief; whence then fear? People hold dear him who embodies virtue and insight, who is principled, has realized the truth, and who himself does what he ought to be doing. One who is intent upon the Ineffable (Nibbana), dwells with mind inspired (by supramundane wisdom), and is no more bound by sense pleasures — such a man is called "One Bound Upstream." When, after a long absence, a man safely returns from afar, his relatives, friends and well-wishers welcome him home on arrival. As kinsmen welcome a dear one on arrival, even so his own good deeds will welcome the doer of good who has gone from this world to the next.

Cleary comments that the first three verses underscore the message that inner peace is not won by trying to reject the world, but by living in its midst without being the slave of greed, hatred and folly. Of verse 201, he quotes the Tao Te Ching, "extreme fondness means great expense, and abundant possessions mean much loss. If you know when you have had enough, you will not be disgraced. If you know when to stop, you will not be endangered." Or, as the Bible says......the jaws of hell are never filled! Of verse 203, "contentment is described as a garment that never wears out."

Happiness 197. Let us live happily then, not hating those who hate us! among men who hate us let us dwell free from hatred! 198. Let us live happily then, free from ailments among the ailing! among men who are ailing let us dwell free from ailments! 199. Let us live happily then, free from greed among the greedy! among men who are greedy let us dwell free from greed! 200. Let us live happily then, though we call nothing our own! We shall be like the bright gods, feeding on happiness! 201. Victory breeds hatred, for the conquered is unhappy. He who has given up both victory and defeat, he, the contented, is happy. 202. There is no fire like passion; there is no losing throw like hatred; there is no pain like this body; there is no happiness higher than rest. 203. Hunger is the worst of diseases, the body the greatest of pains; if one knows this truly, that is Nirvana, the highest happiness. 204. Health is the greatest of gifts, contentedness the best riches; trust is the best of relationships, Nirvana the highest happiness. 205. He who has tasted the sweetness of solitude and tranquillity, is free from fear and free from sin, while he tastes the sweetness of drinking in the law. 206. The sight of the elect (Arya) is good, to live with them is always happiness; if a man does not see fools, he will be truly happy. 207. He who walks in the company of fools suffers a long way; company with fools, as with an enemy, is always painful; company with the wise is pleasure, like meeting with kinsfolk. 208. Therefore, one ought to follow the wise, the intelligent, the learned, the much enduring, the dutiful, the elect; one ought to follow a good and wise man, as the moon follows the path of the stars.

Well, yes. Really why the thread on Buddhism was one of various "images" rather than a summary of Doctrines. While I have found that a knowledge of the bare bones of Theravada gives me a few pegs on which to hang my own clothes (as it were), there is nothing like a true existential engagement with a faith. Proverbs....He (and I suppose, she.... ) who answers a thing before he heareth it, it is a shame and a folly unto him. Its all in the "heareth".

Well, as I said - not rudely or curtly..... - quick googles can reveal the answers.......or perhaps a link.... http://www.thebigvie...htfoldpath.html For me, the essential "guidelines" were found very quickly within the Theravada texts... 1. Not to indulge in metaphysical speculation....i.e. Where do I come from, do we survive death, etc etc. But to concentrate upon "pulling the arrow of suffering out" rather than speculating how it might gave got there. 2. Having regard for the words of the Buddha found in the Kalama Sutta.....Do not be satisfied with hearsay or with tradition or with legendary lore or with what has come down in scriptures or with conjecture or with logical inference or with weighing the evidence or with liking for a view after pondering over it or with someone else's ability or with the thought "The monk is our teacher." When you know in yourselves: "These things are wholesome, blameless, commended by the wise, and being adopted and put into effect they lead to welfare and happiness," then you should practice and abide in them.... 3. To treat all the teachings as a raft, for crossing over, not for grasping. For me, these three have been "companions" on the way. And any true explication of the Eightfold Path will necessarily be "auto-biographical", unique to each individual. As I see it, there are the texts, and we find words worthy of reflection...........for insyance, here is the Buddha speaking of "right speech"..... [1] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial (or: not connected with the goal), unendearing & disagreeable to others, he does not say them. [2] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, unendearing & disagreeable to others, he does not say them. [3] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, but unendearing & disagreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them. [4] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them. [5] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them. [6] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, and endearing & agreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them. Why is that? Because the Tathagata has sympathy for living beings." So, read them reflect upon them, yet.... Me? Often my mouth opens and speaks before all such is considered, and even if I attempt to consider such, how would I know, more often than not? So there is life, and there are texts.

Well, I think anyone can google the 8 fold path and see the eight things involved. Wisdom (Sanskrit: prajñā, Pāli: paññā) 1. Right view 2. Right intention Ethical conduct (Sanskrit: śīla, Pāli: sīla) 3. Right speech 4. Right action 5. Right livelihood Concentration (Sanskrit and Pāli: samādhi) 6. Right effort 7. Right mindfulness 8. Right concentration Myself, I think it can easily be misunderstood if each division is seen as some sort of step onwards and upwards, with the walker constantly thinking about exactly where they may or may not be! The texts say that the path is to be "cultivated", which for me means to make it ones own, and this - for me - is within the "training ground" (dojo) of a simple secular life. P.S. Sorry, my opening line seems rather curt and rude, I only meant that I sought to answer from my own experience and understanding rather than just offering a list.

According to the Canonical texts, the First Noble Truth - of suffering (Pali -dukkha) - is to be understood. My own understanding is that suffering is not one side of a coin, the other side being joy and happiness, but that suffering is the total context of our lives. In others words, it IS US, ourselves, not merely a part of us. (I suppose, seeking to link this to the Christian Faith, we "sin because we are sinners", we are not sinners because we sin.) So "overcoming it" involves not the elimination of certain things, but a transformation of understanding, of "who we are". My own Pure Land way is one of dual perspective, dual in the sense of seeing clearly our own finitude and failure, yet with such seeing known to be purely by the light of Inifinite Compassion. So the more I see my own "suffering", that it is in fact my total being, the more the light. A Pure Lander has sought to describe such a perspective by speaking of knowing the strength of the light by the depth of his own shadow. In Pure Land Buddhism (Shin) a distinction is drawn between the path of the Sages where one "perfects wisdom and achieves enlightenment", and the path of Pure Land where one "returns to the foolish self to be saved by Amida". Whereas the path of the Sages is more often associated with the monastery, some priviledged space, or the meditation cushion, the "training ground" for Pure Landers is all of life, as lived and experienced each day. Yet the goal is the same, to awaken to the true self as a manifestation of dharma or "reality-as-is". Such a realization comes via the power of compassion. Illuminated by such a light we are made to see our essential finitude, imperfection and mortality - affirming ones basic reality is the crucial factor in the transformative process. Such a transformation is based on the Mahayana teaching of the non-duality of samsara (this world of birth-and-death) and nirvana; i.e. delusion and enlightenment. This is not a simple identity, for it involves a dialectical tension between the two poles, between limited karmic beings and unbounded compassion. As we walk on, hopefully the "tension" eases, the rubble turns to gold! (This all drawn from Unno, one of my favorite Pure Land writers) Just to finish, here are some words written by a carer. It is such honesty in the face of suffering that truly speaks to me. I can identify completely. With righteous fervour I tended to her needs Day and night, as she lay hostage To the crippling disease. Then she asked for a measure more, And I balked. She made me see me for what I am. Namu-Amida-Butsu! (Namu-Amida-Butsu........loosely translated, "my foolish self is embraced by Infinite Compassion, grasped, never to be abandoned" It is the Nembutsu, the heart of the Pure Land way)

Not reviling, not injuring, practicing restraint according to the moral code leading to freedom, moderation in eating, living in solitude, dwelling with diligence on the highest thoughts — this is the teaching of the Buddhas. Regarding the above verse, and the highlighted words, Cleary says.... Solitude means being aloof from the influences of society (be not conformed to this world?) . It may be practiced alone or in company, just as emotional dependency can be practiced alone or in company. One who is physically alone yet still under the influence of other people is not solitary. One who abandons the world in favour of isolation is not solitary either, because the world is still a companion by virtue of ongoing relation, even though that relation be one of rejection.

The Enlightened One 179. By what path will you lead the Buddha of infinite range of perception, the Pathless One, whose conquest of passions cannot be undone, into whose conquest no one in this world enters? 180. By what path will you lead the Buddha of infinite range of perception, the Pathless One, in whom there is not that entangling and poisonous craving which leads one astray (to another state of birth)? 181. Those wise ones who are absorbed in meditation, who take delight in the inner calm of renunciation, such mindful and perfectly awakened ones even the devas (gods) hold dear. 182. Difficult is it to be born as a human being; difficult is the existence of mortals; difficult is the hearing of the Sublime Truth; rare is the appearance of the Enlightened Ones (Buddhas). 183. Abstention from all evil, the doing of good deeds, and the purification of the mind, is the admonition of the Enlightened Ones. 184. Forbearance which is long-suffering is the highest austerity. The Buddhas declare nirvana to be the supreme state. Verily he is not an anchorite who harms another; nor is he an ascetic who causes grief to another. 185. Not reviling, not injuring, practicing restraint according to the moral code (patimokkha) leading to freedom, moderation in eating, living in solitude, dwelling with diligence on the highest thoughts — this is the teaching of the Buddhas. 186, 187. There is no satisfying the passions even by a shower of gold coins; the wise man, knowing that sense delights are of fleeting pleasure and productive of pain, finds no joy even in celestial pleasures. The true disciple of the Fully Enlightened One delights only in the destruction of all worldly desires. 188. Men driven by fear betake themselves to numerous refuges, such as mountains, forests, groves, sacred trees and shrines. 189. Verily, none of these is a safe refuge, nor is it the supreme refuge. For even after arriving at a refuge, one is not emancipated from all suffering. 190. He who takes refuge in the Enlightened One (buddha), in his Doctrine (dhamma), and in his Community of Monks (sangha), perceives with clarity of wisdom the Four Noble Truths, namely: 191, 192. Suffering, the Origin of Suffering, the Cessation of Suffering, the Noble Eightfold Path that leads to the cessation of suffering. That, verily, is the safe refuge and the supreme refuge. After having arrived at that refuge, a man is emancipated from all suffering. 193. An illumined person (a Buddha) is indeed very rare. He is not born everywhere. Wherever such a one takes birth, that family prospers. 194. Blessed is the birth of the Buddhas; blessed is the discourse on the Noble Law; blessed is the harmony of the Community of Monks; blessed is the devotion of those living in brotherhood. 195, 196. He who pays homage to those who deserve homage, whether the Enlightened Ones or their disciples; he who has overcome the host of passions, and crossed the stream of grief and lamentations; he who pays homage to such as are emancipated and fearless — his merit cannot be measured. (I have had to switch from the on-line version I was using, as the cut and paste seems not to work. I have left the verse numbers in, as can be seen)

I've found that "suchness" , in complete contradiction to what it "is" (or isn't), grows and evolves, at least in terms of my own understanding. (This raises questions about "sudden" and "gradual" enlighenment, and the quagmire of all the various arguments between Theravada and Mayahaya...............the closest I have found in resolving them are a few words from Pai-chang, who has said that there is the "elementary, the intermediate and the final good", If only one stage is taught, you will send people to hell, if all three are taught at once, they will go to hell by themselves.....then he says enigmatically......for the truth is not truth, yet is not other than truth. Anyway, I'm not too sure exactly what stage I'm at, and I don't think too much about it, a tip picked up from Merton, who seems to know about these things........(at least, I hope so)...... ) I would say that the one big mistake that can be made is to identify "suchness" with some form of inertia, that experience of its reality encourages docile acceptance of the status quo, however conceived. This is the "mistake" that is often made - and more often than not, expressed as a condemnation/criticism by various "apologists" of other faiths - of the "passive" east, of a Buddha often depicted as sitting cross legged, eyes closed.......etc etc etc. For me it is more of a "coming back to the place we started, and knowing it for the first time", of realising we are the same old Tom, Dick or Harry we have always been, yet though we are not different from who we used to be, our course of action is different from before (Pai-chang again) So "suchness" is paradoxically how things already are, just as they are. Yet this is a transformative realization, and this is not so paradoxical if it is seen in Christian terms that "how things already are" is the "hidden ground of love", the pure freedom of the divine, Who is Love first and foremost, who accepts us totally just as we are, this to give His own "being" of freedom and love to us as gift, unearned in any way. As Pai-chang says again, "it (reality) is not attained by attainment........it is not known by knowledge." To think we "have it" is to miss it. Suzuki speaks of how such realization unfolds a new world......."free from intellectual complexities and moralistic attachments of every description.....discovers in the world of multiplicities all sorts of values hitherto hidden from sight....... a world full of wonders and miracles. ( From "What is Zen", the first chapter of Suzuki's wonderful book "Zen and Japanese Culture") And there are also some words of Thomas Cleary, who has been a companion of sorts on the thread, when he speaks of the realisation as "opening the door to a an impartial compassion and social conscience, not in response to political opportunity, but as a spontaneous expression of intuitive and emphatic awareness."

Joseph, it is interesting that you say what you did. In fact it points to where Suzuki and Merton "parted company" (in the nicest possible way) at the end of their dialogue concerning the meaning of - and implications of - the "fall", a dialogue that can be found under the heading "Wisdom in Emptiness" in the book "Zen and the Birds of Appetite." Suzuki finishes by speaking of a "realised eschatology" of the present moment, which he also identifies as "suchness" pure and simple. Merton sees such as "vivid and very profound" and even "much more deeply Christian than perhaps Suzuki himself imagines." Yet Merton also feels compelled to witness to the final manifestation of the restoration of all things in Christ, which he acknowledges can only appear distinct from pure "suchness" as such, even a movement away from it. Merton also distinguishes between the Buddhist who sees life as a static and ontological fullness, and the Christian who sees it as a dynamic gift, a fullness of love. (I would tend to take issue with this, certainly of the "Buddhist" perspective.....as he himself has said previously, Buddhism focuses on experience, which is essential, not on the explanation, which is accidental and which indeed is often regarded as trivial and even misleading.

"For consider the world - A bubble, a mirage." Just a quick word or two from Cleary's commentary, as usual given from the Mahayana perspective...... This method of contemplation has been confused with an article of dogma by literal-minded scholars. The great Japanese Zen master Muso Soseki explains that the contemplative method described here is not ultimate, but a method of breaking through fixation on views of the world. This needs to be said, because fixation on the view of the world as a mirage is also an illusion with undesirable consequences. Also.... the final line......."Is the joy of reaching the stream" Entering the stream is a technical term.......perhaps most simply defined as putting an end to delusion by views and opinions. (Cleary)

The World Do not live in the world, In distraction and false dreams. Outside the dharma. Arise and watch. Follow the way joyfully Through this world and beyond. Follow the way of virtue. Follow the way joyfully Through this world and on beyond! For consider the world - A bubble, a mirage. See the world as it is, And death shall overlook you. Come, consider the world, A painted chariot for kings, A trap for fools. But he who sees goes free. As the moon slips from behind a cloud And shines, So the master comes out from behind his ignorance And shines. The world is in darkness. How few have eyes to see! How few the birds Who escape the net and fly to heaven! Swans rise and fly toward the sun. What magic! So do the pure conquer the armies of illusion And rise and fly. If you scoff at heaven And violate the dharma, If your words are lies, Where will your mischief end? The fool laughs at generosity. The miser cannot enter heaven. But the master finds joy in giving And happiness is his reward. And more - For greater than all the joys Of heaven and earth, Greater still than dominion Over all the worlds, Is the joy of reaching the stream.

rivanna, Yes, the Dhammapada is a Theravada scripture, and the Theravada seeks to relate very much to the practical/conventional world. We are a long way here from the paradoxes of zen, and the quagmire of Mahayana Buddhism. (Well, quagmire to the unwary) The Theravada also claims to have preserved the most historically accurate account of the Buddha's teachings, and I think there is substance in such a claim. But the whole subject is complex. I did refer to this latest chapter on another thread............post repeated here... //When such is not seen (the nature of truth, as a state of "being" rather than a set of words/doctrine) then there is always a sense in which our words and actions are "works", however subtle at times, "works" that are a clung to us justifications, self aggrandisement, and setting us over and above others whose "works" are inferior in our own eyes. To a certain extent I understand much of this in relation to the latest Chapter of the Dhammapada I have posted, where the main theme appears to be that one must "work on" ones own self and get that sorted out (!) before attempting to sort out anyone else. Good advice in many ways, yet in practice one of saying we should NEVERinterfere with others! Cleary, in his commentary, says.......The point.......is not that we should not help others, but that we cannot help others in a real sense, even if we try, unless and until we have first developed our own understanding and capacity to a sufficient degree......lending a hand just to feel like we are doing some good is really selfish indulgence, not altruistic action..... Not sure I'm in complete agreement. Often mouths need feeding ( and a lot more) irrespective of our motivations, but Cleary makes a point.// Getting into the quagmire of the Mahayana , enlightenment there is seen to be the unity of helping self and others, that there cannot be one without the other, as we are "one" already in many ways. The "trajectory" of Theravada is up and out of this world, that of Mahayana "up" and then "back".........But as said, the issue is complex, and I would not wish to be dogmatic!

Yourself Love yourself and watch - Today, tomorrow, always. First establish yourself in the way, Then teach, And so defeat sorrow. To straighten the crooked You must first do a harder thing - Straighten yourself. You are your only master. Who else? Subdue yourself, And discover your master. Willfully you have fed Your own mischief. Soon it will crush you As the diamond crushes stone. By your own folly You will be brought as low As you worst enemy wishes. So the creeper chokes the tree. How hard it is to serve yourself, How easy to lose yourself In mischief and folly. The kashta reed dies when it bears fruit. So the fool, Scorning the teachings of the awakened, Spurning those who follow the dharma, Perishes when his folly flowers. Mischief is yours. Sorrow is yours. But virtue is also yours, And purity. You are the source Of all purity and impurity. No one purifies another. Never neglect your work For another's, However great his need. Your work is to discover your work And then with all your heart To give yourself to it.

To a certain extent, this question seems relevant to the whole subject of the UP. Looking at past posts, and the suggestion that the part of the UP that dealt with the actual life and teachings of Jesus would be beneficial to read as a stand alone...........700 pages! Containing the "greatest truths mankind can ever hear"! Though I identify as a Pure Land Buddhist, I have found that the gospels as found in the NT full of the "greatest truths mankind can ever hear." I'd even say that just a single parable of the kingdom would suffice. 700 pages? Sorry. I must be on a bit of a downer.

Brent, The E of P and I my mention of it was merely my sense of humour.....it goes back a long way. Yet, such can be linked to revelations from Hubble telescopes and such. Simplicity also. sadly, at the moment, I have no time, but then again, really I do not see any real argument between us.

Brent, I have to say that for me its whatever grabs ya. Also, maybe a case of things being as simple or as complex as we want to make them, or perhaps as we need them to be. There is a story of the Buddha holding up a flower and someone "got it", while others needed a little bit more in the way of deep analysis of the essencelessness of phenomena, perhaps a hundred lifetimes worth! Jesus summed up the law and the prophets by saying that they merely said "love God and love your neighbour as yourself", and maybe the NT could be summed up by "we are saved by grace". Yet perhaps we all, in our own way, "search the scriptures daily for in them we think we have life" I do think that we know God by, and in, love, but by thought never. I think thought can become very complex, yet the call is to become as a little child. So I suppose we get back to whatever grabs ya!

Joseph, maybe I would have been had the bulge not been quite so pronounced........ But, thanks for the words. I just think that there is a time and a place for all sorts of words, its just getting the time and the place right that often causes confusion. All the best Derek

Old Age The world is on fire! And you are laughing? You are deep in the dark. Will you not ask for a light? For behold your body - A painted puppet, a toy, Jointed and sick and full of false imaginings, A shadow that shifts and fades. How frail it is! Frail and pestilent, It sickens, festers and dies. Like every living thing In the end it sickens and dies. Behold these whitened bones, The hollow shells and husks of a dying summer. And you are laughing? You are a house of bones, Flesh and blood for plaster. Pride lives in you, And hypocrisy, decay, and death. The glorious chariots of kings shatter. So also the body turns to dust. But the spirit of purity is changeless And so the pure instruct the pure. The ignorant man is an ox. He grows in size, not in wisdom. "Vainly I sought the builder of my house Through countless lives. I could not find him... How hard it is to tread life after life! "But now I see you, O builder! And never again shall you build my house. I have snapped the rafters, Split the ridgepole And beaten out desire. And now my mind is free." There are no fish in the lake. The long-legged cranes stand in the water. Sad is the man who in his youth Loved loosely and squandered his fortune - Sad as a broken bow, And sadly is he sighing After all that has arisen and has passed away. Cleary says that this chapter offers some sobering contemplations of the passage of time..........certainly, looking down at my once lean middle regions and noting the rather unwholesome looking bulge, the words concerning the ox, and growing only in size, tends to concentrate the mind somewhat! And never again shall you build my house. When we have seen the source of illusion - the illusion that sees the body as the self or treats it as a possession - (Cleary again), means you will not deceive yourself anymore with images of self-importance.

real freedom is not “choice freedom but spontaneity freedom Rivanna, yes, that's it. Just a small excerpt from the dialogue between Merton and Suzuki, here the words of Suzuki.........."When we return to the state of 'innocence' anything we do is good. St Augustine says, 'Love God and do as you will.' The Buddhist idea of Anabhoga-Carya corresponds to innocence." In a footnote, Suzuki states that Anabhoga-Carya is often translated as "effortlessness" or "no-striving". Again, in the Pure Land, the idea is expressed by saying "No working (i.e. our own calculations/hakarai) is true working (i.e. Amida's working), yet allowing for the realisation that there is in fact no "self power", nor "other power", there is only Other Power. And just to taunt Joseph with further obscurity....( )......Pai-Chang (a Ch'an master) has said....that what are called desire and aversion when one is not yet enlightened or liberated are called enlightened wisdom after enlightenment. That is why it is said, "One is not different from who one used to be; only one's course of action is different from before." "A clearly enlightened person falls into the well. How is this so?" (Zen Koan)