jerryb

Well said Fred....I too believe that a genuine encounter with God can begin ONLY when the "canned mass-membership mentality" of conventional religion ends. Can I be a trouble maker now, and ask you to define "geniune"? Just kidding! Blessings, Jerry

The Road Less Traveled is one of my all-time favorite books. Peck was an awesome author. I was so sad to hear recently that he had died. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Maggie...and welcome. I think I have all of Peck,s books, and it's hard to say which is my favorite,but I really enjoyed his book" Further along the road less traveled". It seemed to give more of his own experience along the Road. Blessings, jerryb

Hi october....boy you really know how to ask the hard questions. Have you always been a trouble-maker? Just kidding. I'm going to work on that definition. Meanwhile....how do you define spirituality? Blessing to you, Jerry

One line in this book really struck me.." Religion ends where spirituality begins".... Is that really true? Is it ALWAYS true? WHAT DO YOU THINK? Joan Chittister is a Benedictine sister ,who felt so dominated and smothered by the male clergy of her church that she finally began to ask some of the hard spiritual questions many on this board have been forced to ask. If you are asking some of those questions at this point on your spiritual path...I believe you would enjoy this book. Blessings, Jerryb

As someone whose undergraduate degree was in physics and got the highest grade in the class at quantum mechanics, I'm curious where such a world view as this comes from. Why would anyone see the quantum world as different from the material world? Does a prayer begin in the mind, the brain or when spoken, orally or subvocally? I don't know. I would think God knows unspoken thoughts, but maybe it matters to make the actual committment involved in saying something. Is the power in the prayer or is it in God, with the prayer just being a signpost? What is the path of communication between my mind and/or brain and God. Is there one, or does God living in us represent that there is no separation between the mind of God and my mind apart from something imaginary? I don't see much hope of getting a definitive answer to such questions. I learned to pray effectively in Al-Anon. I was skeptical of the place that prayer had in the 12 steps, but had many amazing moments with prayer while doing the steps, such as asking for a longstanding resentment to be removed from me, and suddenly it was. Atheists would label that something else. I myself am unconvinced that physical miracles ever happen. But I'm sure that prayer has some benefit, even if it's just for me to lower my resistance to something God wants to do. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi David GREAT POST! I especially liked the part that says(What is the path of communication between my mind and/or brain and God.Is there one,or does God living in us represent that THERE IS NO SEPARATION between the mind of God and my mind apart from something IMAGINARY?) A resounding YES! I truly believe that the biggest lie ever told is that we are somehow SEPARATE from God,and each other for that matter. This comes back to what I said the other day on another post about us being co-creators with God. If you take that idea to it's logical conclusion...maybe we can help answer our own prayers. We really have no idea how powerful we are as spiritual beings, because the organized church has sold us the bill of goods that says..."I am a poor wretced sinner, who deserves to die." Some wise man I read recently wrote..."IF WE COULD SEE OURSELVES AS GOD SEES US...IT WOULD TAKE OUR BREATH AWAY". Blessings my friend, Jerryb

OOPS! Sorry for the double post. Having been brought up in an extremely fundemental church...I really had a crisis of faith,when for the first time...I allowed myself to entertain the slightest doubt about the infallability of the bible. But after months of intense struggle with that 'slightest doubt'....I began to feel a sense of true freedom for the first time in my life. It was the most liberating experience of my life. And I am grateful to authors like these (Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy) who wrote this excellant book. Jerryb

Quote: "Imagine for a moment that you woke up one morning,and everything you thought you knew about yourself was untrue. Your name wasnot your true name...your parents were not your real parents...your whole identity was a fabrication. This is how it is with our so-called sacred texts...they have been WILFULLY distorted,badly remembered,and wrongly interpreted".

Hi Dave, I'm new here too....but I really liked your post....especially the part where you said,"If either the consistency or the commitment were missing,there would be no universe". I still struggle with the idea of a God who is all powerful,and yet sometimes refuses to act when terrible things happen. Perhaps it is just that "tension" that allows our faith to grow in spite of everything . Blessings, Jerryb

Is it really worth the time and effort we put into praying? Do you believe that prayer begins at the virtual level...then enters the quantum level,and finally manifest into the material world? Looking forward to your thoughts..... Jerryb

Hi October, My prayer is that you will find that special place to pursue your teaching career. And by the way.....I'm still working on the topic you started about God being in control, and our free will. That is an excellent topic for all of us to consider. On my wife's spiritual pathway thread , they have been considering something very similar. Their topic was...."If you are certain that God exists...is that faith or knowledge"? What do you think ? Blessings, Jerryb

Hi Jerry! I decided to quote a few passages from the webpage that I linked to in the other thread. I think you'll appreciate them. The website owner (a Buddhist Catholic ) goes on to say that the various metaphors of Christ's relation to mankind are symbolic of Theosis. Such metaphors include: Children of God, Bride of Christ, Body of Christ, Light of the World, and Living Water. There are others as well. It's philosophical and theological ideas like kenosis and theosis that made me realize just how mystical traditional, orthodox Christianity truly is. I get frustrated when the words "orthodox" and "traditional" get interchanged with "fundamentalist" because the groups that use those labels don't look at scripture remotely the same way. I think the accepted canon of scripture is very "esoteric", but we have become conditioned to think that accepted canon is literal while the apocryphal writigs are metaphorical. That's not to say that I don't think that the NT is historical. I do. I just think that, as Christ said, he spoke in parables (parables which we have come to view as literal history). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Aletheia, Thanks for responding to this post. I love the quote from the Buddist Catholic..especially the part about the ego getting lost just as the wax mold gets lost as the jeweler pours liquid gold to make a ring. The story I heard this morning goes to the heart of our subject: "A man came forward one morning to join the church. In his hand he held a long list of things he was going to do for God. When he finished reading the list,God said, in a booming voice,'is that all?' He went back to his seat and added several things to his list. after he read the expanded list, God asked again,'is that all?'. After several more trips to his seat,and several more pages of what he was going to do for God, God finally said, "listen...just sign it at the bottom, and let me fill it in." Maybe this is what self-emptying is all about....just signing our name on God's 'bottom line'. Blessings to you my friend' Jerry

Hi Aletheia, I like the mini-Christs analogy...and it brings to mind a "startling" verse of scripture that I'm still trying to decode ...maybe you can help. Here's the verse in question: Jesus said,"My prayer for all of them is that they will be one..JUST AS you and I are one Father...that JUST AS you are in me and I in you,SO they will be in us...and then the world will believe". Kind of boggles the mind...and least my feeble one. Blessings Jerryb

Hi Flow.... I like that analogy very much. I hope it will help me do a better job of " support and maintenance". Blessings to you, Jerryb

Aletheia You will LOVE The Road Less Traveled. I read it during the "first faltering steps" of my walk back to Christianity,and it truly helped me chart a course for the uncertain path I was soon to walk. ENJOY Jerryb

Comparitive religion is somewhat of a hoby of mine and I give credit to that interest in bringing me back to Christianity, because in my studies, I found Christianity to hold the most "truth", both philosophically and theologically. I appreciate much of Taoism and Zen and think that they have alot to offer philosophically. The Zen concept of life being a journey that we shouldn't miss because we are so focused on a destination, is something I try to remind myself of regularly. Stop and smell the roses, in other words. Much of Christianity is "gotta get to heaven ... gotta survive God's war ... gotta avoid hell ... " Those are interpretations of the Bible that miss the point, imo. I hold to a modified Christus Victor view of the cross. (I don't think Jesus was a legalistic, judicial style, ransom, propitiatory sacrifice for my sins.) I do think Jesus' death was a snub at the authorities (both material and immaterial) and a defiant snub at death. I think the resurrection has as much to teach us about the meaning of Jesus as his death did, and I think his life example, of course, is just as important as the other two. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Aletheia....once again, our spiritual backgrounds are similar. My study in comparitive religion is also helping to bring me back to christianity. But it is a much different christianity from the one that was "drilled" into my head as a young man. I am getting to know a kinder,gentler Jesus. Thanks to people like Phil Yancey who helped me to see that God is actually "hungry" for a relationship with us,and as he says in the cover of his book "Where is God when it hurts"? "God takes us beyond the things that make for disillusionment,to a deeper faith,and a thirst not just for what God GIVES.but for who He IS". MORE blessings, Jerry

Well, the notion of being "co-creators with God" is based on a conception of individual beings existing side-by-side with God in the causal manifold -- which, as I've just argued in another thread, I believe is a misconception. I think we relate to God in two kinds of ways. Firstly, we relate to God as transcendent, infinite, inexhaustible. In this case, I don't think we're in a position to offer God much of anything in the way of sage advice. Secondly, we relate to God as immanent, finite, manifest in the multiplicity of the cosmos. In this case, I don't think we "help God choose," so much as we become awakened to the reality of God's indwelling presence in all things, and learn to act -- and help others to act -- in harmony with that. And yes, I really am always this argumentative. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Greetings Fred......I like a good argument once in a while....but ALWAYS..hmmmm. Just kidding...a good argument is a great vehicle to stimulate constructive dialogue. And then....hopefully that constructive dialogue becomes "creative" ... then perhaps in that sense we are co-creators with God. Is that a possibility? Godspeed Jerry

Jerry, run (don't walk) to your nearest Blockbuster Video and rent the movie "Uncorked" with Minnie Driver and Rufus Sewel. The movie is filled with hidden spiritual insights. About 1/3 of the way into the film there is a scene that has something to do with what you said above. I hesistate to say more because I don't want to ruin in for you. The movie isn't an earthshaking spiritual experience, but that one particular scene reached in and grabbed my heart so tightly I couldn't breath. I think "Be still and know that I am God" is my all time favorite scripture. Wow, we do seem to be on the same wavelength. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Aletheia, On my way to the bookstore! Can't seem to get enough of this good spiritual stuff! As far as that favorite scripture of yours...it's in my top ten too. And I truly believe,that if we ever really grasp what that verse implies...it will revolutionize our spritual paths. Blessings my friend, Jerry

Hi des, Well said...we don't get to choose which part of the creative energy we get. But...IF we are co-creators with God,and I truly believe we are,maybe we can help God choose. What do you think? Blessings, Jerryb

Aletheia, You ARE poetic....don't fight it. I like what you said about God's heartbeat...maybe that's what we are all missing in our hectic world today. The scripture "Be still and KNOW that I am God" comes to mind. I have come to understand that there is a great difference in BELIEVING and KNOWING....and I need the feedback of all of you on this board to help me understand that difference. GODSPEED MY FRIENDS, Jerryb

Touche Aletheia, Boy....you really gave me something to think about! I never thought about the idea of opposites making life have definition,but you said it quite succinctly. Now I must trade one connundrum for another. In his book"out of the question...into the mystery",Leonard Sweet begins with these words,"I write this book with one foot on a banana peel". And I must confesss that is how I feel sometimes as I try to navigate my own spiritual path. Maybe that's why I felt drawn to this particular message board....there are banana peels all over the place. Thank you for challenging me on this subject. Blessings, Jerryb

Hi october, I have come to believe that we are co-creators with God in everything that happens in our own little part of the universe. Sometimes I don't WANT to believe that,but it has been my experience that we could answer a lot of our own prayers by praying this prayer.."Father...help me to do EVERYTHING I CAN to make this happen". Please continue to share your thoughts on this...it is very timely for many of us. Blessings, jerryb

It's me again Aletheia... I have two of those three books on the book self behind me...they are great! I also got to see Thomas Moore in person shortly after he wrote "The soul's religion.". And I have read almost every thing Yancey has written. His book "Where is God when it hurts?" has helped me through some difficult times. And yet...I am still asking that question. We seem to have much the same taste in books....tell me more. Jerryb

Any thoughts? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Aletheia, I enjoyed your post...especially the part where you said"the dance and the stillness is God". Some wise person said,"Stillness is the ONLY voice of our God". I am truly coming to believe that, because I find myself more and more retreating into that silence as my form of prayer. As I pray,I notice that I use much fewer words....and just listen. Blessings, Jerryb

Hi october, What you say is true....but why wouldn't a good,powerful God use His power to stop the terrible things from happening? How could He justify that? Blessings, Jerryb

Greetings fellow space(inner space) travelers, I recently came across this conundrum: God is all powerful God is all good Terrible things happen. Any two of these statements can be true...but not all three. What do you say? Godspeed' Jerryb