romansh

It was not me you were putting in a box.

And he has gained infinite mass and sucked up all the energy and then some.

Agree 100 %. Isn't God by definition "not testable"? If such an entity were testable it would not bear the label of God. Yep. But I would also repeat the question why is nothing our default state? In Hawking's and Mlodinow's The Grand Design ... they believe they have a sufficient understanding of where everything comes from and that there is no need to invoke a God. While I agree with them there is no need to invoke a God, where everything comes from is beyond my understanding. And what scientific texts have we read on this subject?

OK ... first, things we find significant ... we may have an affinity for or perhaps an aversion to. Going nowhere? Perhaps simply neutral on the subject. Questions we might ask include why is nothing our default state? Does postulating something that is not testable by definition get us anywhere? The three-year-old asking Who made God? sees right through the charade.

It's OK at some point to say I don't know Paul. And collectively we can have fun trying to find out. We don't need to hypothesize fairies under my garden shed though and claim they are doing it.

Which why? are you referring to Paul ... what causes these certain configurations or what is the purpose? The problem with answering the cause of the configurations will quite naturally lead to other questions. I am sure I have posted this before ... Feynman is far more eloquent than I am when it comes to why?

You appear to see what I see as simple.

I think science has a similar concept to apophatic theology. Science proposes a hypothesis and tests it to death. If it survives, then we call it a law or a fact. Over time the law might fray at the edges and more study is necessary. Apophatic theology seems to say we can't know God, science might say we can't know the ultimate truth. To me, it seems reasonable to assume there is a truth, ultimate or otherwise. God less so.

Atoms and molecules have affinities for certain configurations. Atoms generally 'like' full orbitals and some molecular structures are 'preferred. Similarly, Biology has certain stable ecologies which depend on the environment. Speaking from a stability point of view non-life is where it is at? Life is, if we like, an aberration in death. My affinity is to enjoy it whilst it lasts. What has significance or God for that matter, to do with anything?

While nothing wrong with this line of thought, it does seem in contradiction with Joseph's post above about the "right way" 18 Aug 2019. Apophatic theology anyone? What god isn't? Could take a long time to get there.

Is it with the punchline ... only if you get your thumbs caught?

In light of some of the nonsense regarding Satan ... An atheist dies and goes to hell...Satan welcomes him and says: "Let me show you around a little bit." They walk through a nice park with green trees and the devil shows him a huge palace. "This is your house now, here are your keys." The man is happy and thanks the devil. Satan says: "No need to say thank you, everyone gets a nice place to live in when they come down here!"They continue walking through the nice park, flowers everywhere, and Satan shows the atheist a garage full of beautiful cars. "These are your cars now!" and hands the man all the car keys. Again, the atheist tries to thank the devil, but he only says "Everyone down here gets some cool cars! How would you drive around without having cars?".They walk on and the area gets even nicer. There are birds chirping, squirrels running around; kittens everywhere. They arrive at a fountain, where the most beautiful woman the atheist has ever seen sits on a bench. She looks at him and they instantly fall in love with each other. The man couldn´t be any happier. Satan says "Everyone gets to have their soulmate down here, we don´t want anyone to be lonely!"As they walk on, the atheist notices a high fence. He peeks to the other side and is totally shocked. There are people in pools of lava, screaming in pain, while little devils run around and stab them with their tridents. Other devils are skinning people alive, heads are spiked, and many more terrible things are happening. A stench of sulfur is in the air.Terrified, the man stumbles backwards, and asks Satan "What is going on there?" And the punchline: Satan just shrugs and says: "Those are the Christians, I don´t know why, but they prefer it that way."

It's OK Derek ... in your case, my like was unconditional, unlike some Christians.

Yeah ... You did not really answer what is your take on Campbell's quote?

Without looking it up Soul ... Could be (1) a synonym for a person, three souls perished in that accident. (2) An aspect of personality or culture, a person with little displayed passion might be described as she has no soul, culturally soul music or literature for the soul. (3) An imagined state of immaterial being, used by superstitious people.

I knew there was something I liked about you.

I notice you have done this sort of thing on several different websites ... and indeed you seem familiar. Have you had any success anywhere?

from the other thread:

What is your take on Joseph Campbell's take? You perform your duty to support the universe. The universe is alive. The Sun performs its duty, the Moon performs its duty, the mice perform their duty and cats perform theirs, the brahmins perform theirs, the sudras theirs, and by this - everyone performing his duty - the universe is held in form. By following your dharma you hold the universe in form.

Derek ... I have not read any of Merton. But it appears the word Dharma has many meanings. It would be helpful if you could throw some light on what you think Merton means by Dharma. The one sense of Dharma that makes sense to me is the one proposed by Campbell: You perform your duty to support the universe. The universe is alive. The Sun performs its duty, the Moon performs its duty, the mice perform their duty and cats perform theirs, the brahmins perform theirs, the sudras theirs, and by this - everyone performing his duty - the universe is held in form. By following your dharma you hold the universe in form.

Really? We should not use persuasion to get someone off a dangerous path (that we see). While I disagree with many aspects of Joseph's views, I think he has come closest for me. Acceptance. For example, I think David is very wrong, but I accept it. But that does not mean I won't try and nudge him to a safer (what I see as) path. I think Darrow had it: Chase after the truth like all hell and you’ll free yourself, even though you never touch its coat tails.

Well David ... you should practice what you preach and engage in the argi bargy of discourse. If indeed I do have assertions they would go along lines like these: If cause and effect are true, then any opinions/beliefs we have are a product of our evolution and environment. If cause and effect are not true then our opinions/beliefs have just popped into existence. (I must admit this seems far-fetched to me). If it is some combination of the two we are no further ahead. Take your Brené for example. She managed to shake her addiction to a combination of alcohol, smoking, emotional eating and an addiction to control. But she never managed to let go of Christianity, wavering between the Catholic and Episcopalian. Now if any of my three ifs are true, it takes courage to think about them and go where our thoughts lead us.

I like Stephen Batchelor. I find I am much more aligned with him than other lines with Buddhist thought. Mrs rom is fine. Thanks. There's some weight to her bossiness now, the cast and moral black mail work fine.

Well, @David SundaramI do have to thank you for providing a little mirth on an otherwise mirthless day. Mrs rom phoned this morning, to tell me that she had slipped on some ice and passers-by had called an ambulance. I called a neighbour to ask her if I could give her a ride into town so she could bring Mrs rom's car home. She could. I got to the hospital and she, Mrs rom, informed me she had likely broken her wrist and banged her head on possibly a fire hydrant. She assured me the fire hydrant was OK. Anyway, hours pass, as they do in Emergency. It turns out her radius is broken. They set the fracture in a plaster cast. re-Xrayed it, not good enough. The surgeon wants to operate, but the theatre does not. I come home for a bite to eat. Mrs rom texts that they will try re-setting without an op. Drive back ... hunt down where the Mrs is hidden in the hospital. A couple more hours pass. Eventually, the Mrs escapes the event horizon of the local hospital. In the meantime, during lulls in the events, I read a few bits of David's musings. And commented on them. It would appear a serious critique is not what was hoped for by David. It appears David wants happiness and not criticism. Now if someone were to critique my writing negatively and I respected their opinion or their negative opinion was accurate, I must admit, it would hurt. So extrapolating from a point of one, either my opinion was accurate or David respects my opinion. Who would have thought? An inaccurate, anonymous opinion on the internet ... For me, dissenting opinions and clarification is where the fun is.