Vridar

It appears most think Matthew might be pacifying the traditional Jews. Ron

Neon, Thanks. The old man sometimes forgets he has oodles of information at his fingertips. Ron

Rivanna, It appears this is the consensus. Ron

Paul, You"re thinking Jesus didn't say those words? Knowing later interpolations did happen, it could be. Do you think Jesus "wants to turn everything on its head"? This may be what came down traditionally, but, is it really what Jesus was preaching? That's really my questioning. I'm not sure we have it accurately what Jesus's intention was. Was he really changing things or concerned the direction Judaism was heading? I'm thinking the Jesus Seminary attributes the Sermon on the Mount to Jesus. I don't have my Five Gospels at hand to check. George, do you have yours? Did JS give them Red on the Sermon? Ron

Neon, Now I know we are on the same vein. Some of my current readings are leading me to believe Jesus's religion may not be what has come down to us. He may have been more steeped in the traditional Judaism than we are led to believe. Did Paul usurp Jesus's religion and turn it to something Jesus didn't/wouldn't recognize or appreciate? Ron

Neon, So, Matthew (c. 70s) says Jesus's Sermon on the Mount (c. 30s) is suggesting Gentiles taught by Paul (c. 50s) should get back to the law? If this is so, and I understand it correctly, I'd suggest there is some anachronism. I think we are on the same vein here. Possibly, Jesus's speech indicates he's here to clarify the Torah and Prophets, maybe? Ron

"he seems to me to be advocating going beyond the letter of the law and practicing the spirit of the law which sets a much higher standard." George, You hit upon where I'm headed. My recent readings are leading me in this direction. Let's see if others have insight. Ron

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." Mt 5:17 What was Jesus saying? Was he correcting the Pharisees? Was he saying he was here to put Torah in the true light (his true light)? What is your interpretation? I'm more interested in members thoughts than concordance quoting but am interested in whatever creates a discussion. Ron

Dusk, By fundamentalist do you mean a sect which would be against conventional medical practice? Otherwise, maybe the comradeship will be a blessing. I also have questions about belonging to sects that are against vaccinations, transfusions, organ transplant, etc. But, just a normal evangelical, proselytizing sect shouldn't be a threat. Ron

Another book of the Jewish-Christian story shedding light is Amy-Jill Levine's The Jewish Annotated New Testament. I've promoted this book on other threads. I feel, similar to Bishop Spong, one needs to study the Jewish connection to understand 1st century Christianity. Forth century and later Christianity is a different Christianity.

I finished the podcast. A gut renching story. It appears Pastor Pearson has landed on his feet and maybe is on firmer ground now. I identify with some of his questionings. Ron

The books I read quite often will discuss this very subject in the preface or introduction stating the authors are unknown, but "tradition" has come down as Mark, Matthew, Luke and John and referred to them as the authors knowing they probably weren't. For simplicity the scholars state, "John writes...," when in reality it is assumed to mean "In John the author writes..." I agree, it will continue to confuse those not aware of these implied meanings. For the uninitiated a good annotated Bible helps dispel this confusion. Ron

George, Thanks for the link. I've not listened to the complete hour yet, but am working on it. Some past reading quoted statistics of "Fallen Pastors." The numbers were startling. The number of seminary drop outs also were startling. Recently, I came across a story of a fallen pastor writing a book to support himself (forgot the name). What I took from the book review was there are many pastors who, for whatever reason, would leave the ministry if only they could support themselves. From this author's experience I was led to believe a support group was formed to help fallen pastors. One such is here. Ron

Welcome Grace, You're not alone. Actually, you're a member of the fastest growing religious group, progressives. Another rural mid-westerner, Ron

Congressional Research Service Gun Control Legislation Study - http://is.gd/XUr8aa

One more try to see if I can get some interest in this topic and this book. Here is a link to an essay very much like a short summary of the book. It has nothing about the writing of Biblical Books prompted by the turmoil over the tax. A short 7 pages, but a very interesting read. http://www.torahresource.com/EnglishArticles/Fiscus%20Judaicus.pdf Ron

DusktillDawn, Welcome. Your points about the site "dogma" were similar to my concerns when Bishop Spong sent his message board to be part of this one. The Bishop's site had gotten pretty much out of control. Switching from the Bishop's site to this site was like going from a wrestling match to a canoe ride down a slow moving stream. But, it is difficult to find a site with like minded participants without the flame throwing. Mr. Joseph and his moderators run a smooth site on which your ideas can be expressed. There are knowledgeable persons here with much to offer. Like you I am a non-believer. This makes me feel like a usurper on a site with Christianity in its name. However, I've surfed many sites and keep coming back to this civil, knowledgeable site. A person needs a "home" with similar minded participants. I hope this might serve your needs. Sometimes it's too quite and hopefully new members such as yourself can keep the dialog fresh and exciting. Ron

Great article in Huffington Post this morning. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/16/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother-mental-illness-conversation_n_2311009.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular Ron

Kansas City news reporting two Topeka police officers shot and killed. I'm assuming they had guns for protection. If so, didn't work. Ron

Greetings from a fellow SW Iowan. Born and raised in Mt. Ayr. Married a Crestonian. Spent a few years in Creston Community College and U of IA and returned to Creston. Born a non-believer and never converted. Welcome to a progressive Christian website. Offer much and take all you need. Ron

One more comment, then I'm going to let calmer minds prevail. Surely some sanity will come out of this atrocity. Upon 1964 college graduation I spent a week's paycheck to become a life member of National Rifle Association. In my home state center-fire firearms had no purpose, our interest was shotgunning. The American Rifleman, the NRAs flagship magazine, carried articles on all firearms. Increasingly it nuanced to center-fire assault rifles and handguns of .45 and 9mm caliber. And, fewer shotgun related articles. At the same time the articles became more political. Advertising changed from Winchester, Remington, Savage and the familiar names to ones like Glock, etc. I dimitted my NRA membership when I realized it had no purpose for the hunter-sportsman. The NRA had become a lobby for the gun industry and the industry was headed a way I couldn't tolerate. A side note, it was more difficult to dimit from the NRA than it was to join. But I finally got the papers notarized, refused enough American Rifleman magazines to get their attention. Numbers was what they were after as opposed to support. My number meant more to the industry than my contributions. So it goes.

The 2nd amendment was written to ensure flintlocks for the common people to protect themselves from despots and evil people. Despots and evil people now have access to much more powerful weapons than the common people. Take away the two handguns and the 223 assault rifle and this kid has to carry a long gun (flintlock ;>) to do his business. Maybe a descent citizen without a gun could have seen it and wrestled it away preventing this. At least he could not conceal it. There are all kinds of scenarios, but something has to change. It's not happening in other civilized nations. Yes, I know about north Africa and one could debate about the civilization there. To answer the question of how to control these weapons I have no idea, but if they are not manufactured, surely attrition would eventually take its course. We have to start somewhere. We cannot live in a steel cage to protect ourselves. No, police do not have the resources. But if we put resources into police protection we now put into "defense" maybe we could have the resources. Ron

Padre775 makes good points. I've also had difficulty with the Unblemished Sheep, Azazel, sacrifice made by Jesus for our sins. However, recently I found it's based on Adam and Eve's sin obtaining knowledge and acquiring death. Jesus reversed that, or bridged it, or further developed the concept by him gathering our sins, such as Azazel does, dying on the Cross and obtaining everlasting life. Like Padre says, reversing, bridging or at least changing sin=death, no sin=everlasting life. Jesus takes our sins from us, so we have everlasting life. Jesus pre-empted Mosaic Law, in other words. This is where the Jews and Messianics separate. The Jews can't accept Jesus pre-empts Moses. My problem is I can't get Adam and Eve's fall in my thinking, so, consequently can't get how Jesus reverses this. I make a terrible minister and explainer. Ron

Twitter is active. Pressure is on politicians. My Tweet - People needed 2nd amendment guns as levelers to evil when guns were flintlocks. Evil now has greater firepower. Ban handguns, assault guns.

Eagan writes,"The safest place in Idaho, by far, is just inside the security line at the Boise airport, where a big sign warns people that they will soon be entering a mandatory gun-free zone." Interesting argument is if people had guns to protect themselves there would be less violence. Hum, why not let guns behind the gun-free zone to make it safer? Ron