soma

People commit sexual crimes because they are troubled. I feel some people want to serve, counsel and help these individuals so they may progress to a better place. They should be given the opportunity to change their lives and be accepted if they show a sincere effort to understand and change a behavior that is harmful to others. People in the general population who might have had an experience as a victim might be traumatized by their presence. They have a right to progress and forgive at a safe place without being forced to accept something before its time. I think a medium can be worked out in acceptance to both situations. When I was young I taught meditation and philosophy at a prison. The members of the class when they came up for parole had no one to support them. I had a business so I set up a half way house so they were released to me and I gave them a job. I could only afford to hire them for a month then they had to find other employment. I did set up a house for their living needs. It was a small number, but most became productive citizens. I have to admit that most were in prison for drugs, but they did rehabilitate. I found that when they were released they mentally were still in prison because they had a complex and a record so it was hard for them to find a job. It was a severe test that most without support fail because they feel they are outsiders. I lived in the house with them and we set up a schedule that was strict with two group meditations daily. They even did community service by attending classes and giving classes at the mental hospital. I learned from them. They changed and helped me change too. In the prison class there was a man who murdered his wife and he was becoming very devout, but he was in a more structure situation of prison and was not going to be release. I watched one native American who was in prison for a minor crime of stealing the American flag from a sheriff's office. It was the sixties. He was very sensitive and didn't belong there. At one point he had to go to a holding tank with other hardened criminals for defiance and when he returned he had a hard shell that was hard to break through. People can change and deserve a chance, but people who are not ready to accept them need respect too and the time away from them to change their attitude.

Thanks for the recommendation. The music is inspirational.

Dutch good to see you have your sea legs and are on board again.

Good news, we are so blessed to have your insight and company on our journey. You bring joy and a smile. Thanks for existing. Soma

Thank you for the sites. I like A Course in Miracles.

Today is my 61 birthday. I plan on lifting weights, doing yoga and meditating, which I do everyday. My wife and kids are so great they let me read and space out for awhile since I usually don't have time for this luxury. My son and I will play basketball with a group we have been playing with for a long time. It is so nice to interact with men in their twenties and thirties. It is a kind of spiritual experience.

physical I first was attracted to vegetarian life style because my major was Biology. I looked at our intestines which are very long and found that the herbivores intestines were long while the carnivores had short intestines. This is so the meat can exit quickly without causing constipation. Our molars are great for grinding grains, nuts and seeds. mental It was hard for 3 years because I liked the full feeling meat gave me after eating. I played football so enjoyed the protein, aggression and full feeling. Eventually I liked the light headedness of the vegetarian diet. I became more sensitive and mentally alert. Less agitated and more conscious. spiritual My meditation is sharper and easier to get into the state of witness. If someone is interested in a vegetarian diet, I would advise research so you get a complete protein and the nutrients one needs to survive. The life style has served me well. I am 60 years old, play basketball twice a weak with 20, 30 and 40 year olds, lift weights everyday, no major physical problems and mentally relaxed. I think it has helped me grow in spiritual peace. I do not eat meat, fish or eggs, but I realize it is not for everyone and the same spiritual heights can be obtained in a different life style. Good luck in your choices.

I have been a vegetarian for 40 years. My wife and two sons are not vegetarian. We all have different life styles and need different foods to fuel that life style. I have physical, mental and spiritual reasons for being a vegetarian, which would you like me to elaborate on.

I am happily married with two sons, but I don't understand when people are in need of the church' the church rejects them. There is no negative impact on life to have gays and lesbians living out in the open. The question is will the members of Rev. Haggard's spiritual family forgive and have a similar conversion? Ecumenalism is loving, witnessing, forgiving without judging so people can come together and solve the difficult problems at hand. The church needs to open the doors and windows and stop locking people out. Let the fresh air and a cool breeze invigorate the soul. Manipulation of the emotions with fear does nothing to rouse the spirit. The thorns and whip applied to the flesh of Jesus did not stop Him from loving and forgiving on the cross. I wish the leaders of many congregations would stop thrusting the spear into the side of Jesus. The vinegar they serve does not quench the thirst. I think UCC is trying in their own way even though I don't know that much about them.

DavidK, I love the church when they do good works, spread love and inspirer people, but I despise the people who speak for it and give lots of prophecies and they are all bogus. 1 Thessalonians 5 says, "Do not despise prophetic utterance, but rather examine everything carefully." Actions speak louder than words. I hope the church recovers from the false prophets that have hijacked it. A two year course on church real estate doesn't make one holy.

Genesis 11:1-9 The Dispersion of the Nations at Babel 11:1 The whole earth had a common language and a common vocabulary. 11:2 When the people moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there. 11:3 Then they said to one another, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” (They had brick instead of stone and tar instead of mortar.) 11:4 Then they said, “Come, let’s build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the heavens so that we may make a name for ourselves. Otherwise we will be scattered across the face of the entire earth.” 11:5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower that the people had started building. 11:6 And the Lord said, “If as one people all sharing a common language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be beyond them. 11:7 Come, let’s go down and confuse their language so they won’t be able to understand each other.” 11:8 So the Lord scattered them from there across the face of the entire earth, and they stopped building the city. 11:9 That is why its name was called Babel – because there the Lord confused the language of the entire world, and from there the Lord scattered them across the face of the entire earth 11:5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower that the people had started building. 11:6 And the Lord said, “If as one people all sharing a common language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be beyond them. I think the Lord is taking sides with diversity and the idea of expanding consciousness and not the characteristic of a temporal worldly Christian view as opposed to the spiritual world; "worldly goods and advancement"; "temporal possessions of the church" . The church must take the highest ideal, the north star and yes, we can't touch the north star, but it can guide us to unity, stability and peace. The trees (churches) today if judged by their fruits plant seeds of arrogance, conceit, and lack piety, respect, or reverence for all God's children so have not reverence for God the Father.

I went to Catholic Schools and church until I got kick out my senior year so I don't have any Unitarian or Unity experience. I was thinking of a network for Christian Progressives, but you have a good point on how to incorporate the non-religious. I think they might be attracted to social justice issues and humanitarian service. If the selfless service acts are effective than people who care about similar causes will want to participate. Their energy and ideas should be welcomed.

Reality and social service has a profound influence on the individual and the world because it produces an experience. That experience may be emotional, intellectual, physical or spiritual. I feel a network of different groups, the purpose should be to provide harmony, guidance, inspiration and the environment for the individual to grow in the understanding of God, and who one really is. As we come to know the nature of God, His unity and Reality we also know more of our own true being as His reflection. Some groups might approach this strictly through spiritual practice, others through social service, while others through the study of scripture. I think the main purpose would be what is in bold above while the network and groups might change their purpose as situations change. This is open for discussion so I won't put a period

I think a network organization could work to keep corruption at a minimum. Instead of very few people (either a CEO, executive director/management team, or religious leaders) having the power to direct the organization from the "top", a networked organization distributes leadership horizontally throughout the network. This could happen through small groups or teams of people who could serve or worship they way they chose. This horizontal net structure is a natural response to the failure of religious institutions to address the complexity of modern spiritual, social, ecological, and economic problems. This is a grass roots response to the top down control of most religions and yes, Christianity where people have abused, manipulated and used others for selfish or political purposes. Since the 1960's, many people have left institutional religious groups and have become what has been called the "spiritual but not religious" it could be the largest "denomination" in the US. According to surveys, many Christians today are seeking alternative forms of worship in what are called "simple (house) churches" and other "Emergent" grass roots forms. I see this as the Christian Progressive Movement. These grass roots movements could operate on parallel levels but may never work together. For example, the Progressive and Fundamentalist churches, the Religious and even the Non- Religious; business people could bring Spirit to their business but may not think about God. People may be focused on peace but not focus at all on feeding the hungry, energy, or environment; some might be focused on personal spirituality, but not on social action or justice; some might work on areas outside the community but never take the time to get to know their neighbors. Would this be a good place to start to be inclusive with safe guards?

The problem now is how do we promote church leadership without the leaders dominating the other groups? We can look how women have been dominated in other churches and not allowed full participation in decision making. We want to deepen consciousness, reflection and acceptance of many styles of worship without a political agenda. It is a challenge to be inclusive and not manipulated by people with an agenda. People who are attracted to a sensual material concept of life where they see themselves as a body and a mind alone in the world, not as a soul connected to God’s creation where the elements and all living things are an integral part of a whole. It doesn't matter if we go from the outside in or the inside out, we are all connected and we are all one. That is easy to say, the hard part is how to implement it.

David I like what you wrote. From time to time I think I need to sit at the Children's table for different reasons. Maybe it is to show unity?

David your points are valid. People listen, but very few hear the message. I still feel that we need to include all, but to address your points I would suggest placing people in categories or levels of understanding. The tadpoles need to be in the pond until they develop legs and lungs. Yes, the spiritual elders would make the decisions and spiritual children will have to be seen and not heard until they have developed the understanding that is needed to discuss at the proper level. Many men and women have reached middle age without achieving mental maturity; therefore, it is necessary to assist them through the neglected layers of the mind. If people have not developed and completed the first two layers, they won't discover the third layer of the mind, which works in a hidden way to create something meaningful in our lives. The process of becoming an individual should be given priority for this reason because following the inner meaning of life is more important to an individual than anything else.

Reading, talking and preaching about God alone is not going to get us communion with God, they are only steps on the way. Each one of us must express, establish and bring forth God and God's unity to the here and now. This can be accomplished by recognizing everywhere the omnipresence of God in our soul and in the consciousness of our being. If we rely and admit that God is omnipresent, our daily interactions will be full of harmony, depth, unity, intensity, peace and joy. God is in our consciousness instead of something out there separate from us sitting away from us up in heaven. Unity is a journey. The mountains depart and the grounds are moved, but God’s love is steadfast, everlasting and has enormous consequences on our lives. With love, peace and happiness the soul gradually reveals God by providing the answers to the questions about the meaning and purpose of life through deeds, ideas and words. This invisible God is felt moving among us by the fullness of His love as He invites us to receive and give love in his company and unity; therefore, to know God is a personal experience that involves an assent of the mind to the self-revelation of God's pure consciousness in the soul. It means coming to know God’s unity, greatness and majesty in thanksgiving because we realize the dignity of all men and make good use of created things. Even in adversity God reveals himself, but still remains a mystery beyond words because if we understood Him, it would not be God because He is beyond the mind. If God were not supreme, beyond the mind and one, He would not be God. On my journey to unity I see the North Star shinning and guiding even though I can't touch it. This desire for perfection is written in the soul because God who is perfect created man with perfection and love. It is through this perfection and love that God continues to hold man in existence because He never ceases to attract man to him because perfection and unity are only in God where we find love, truth and happiness. We argue, debate and stray, I love the discussion, but may we choose unity and joy over fear and distrust. Every moment we have that choice.

God gives us a message of love here in this world, written especially for us individually and if we listen to the message it leads to spiritual understanding. This message as I hear it gives a new concept of life that helps form a new humanity, both on the individual and community level. It offers a faith that is both spiritually and socially concerned with the material well being of all of humanity. Listening to God is not a new field, but it is where people can realize new possibilities. I feel we can't listen for someone else, they have to listen to their personal message, but we can try to teach a process of listening so gradually people may learn of their true identity, duty and destiny. David this is where plurality can be of service, recognizing different layers and levels of understanding. Sometimes I don't hear well and need to be brought back into focus. The mind understands and grows from experience through listening, modeling and instruction. May we listen to God speaking to us everywhere from every angle, person and experience. His voice is very clear inside. The mere reading of the Bible does not make us a Christian and I understand it can't be realized by the mere hearing of words or by reasoning alone. The Bible has to be read with an open mind, an inner hearing, a pure heart to gain the inner knowledge. Mechanical prayers and blind faith can't satisfy everyone, there must be some realization. This can be seen in the stillness of a realized person at work in the stillness of a mind anchored in God. As Christ resonates in us, the mystery of God unfolds and increases. May we form a chain lifting up and being lifted at the same time. Jen you might be able to give better insight into listening. I think everyone here listens with their heart. Jen you are good at putting it in words.

God speaks to everyone equally, but I feel the problem is that we hear the message at different levels or frequency. I think we can have a real community with different groups of people and laity or stations in life. Yes, there are those who only speak to God and know sure as hell what the truth is even though they don't listen to Him. We know this because their experiences do not include love, Truth or joy. These individuals are a part of the people of God too. They should be a part of a Christian community with different groups, different ministries, degrees of laity, and different stations in life. Ecumenism in Christianity is a process of enabling all God's children to learn and participate effectively within a Christian all inclusive system. The process of inclusion contributes to the spiritual development, the social and economic welfare of a balanced church. In our Christian family including the unity of everyone, we can enable all to reach their potential and to flourish using a system of plurality to climb the steps to a spiritual unity. This does not imply that God's child has to change to be able to participate in a Christian Church. One is accepted as one is, but education is provided to all God's children to address unity, accessibility and to challenge attitudes of ministers, priest, staff, spiritual seekers, and the local community that is not associated with the church. All people have dreams, interests and needs so we all need to explore the world and learn. We also need to socialize with our peers to develop our identity. Realizing that people learn at different rates and have different learning styles will ensure that teaching methods are flexible. We don't need to exclude anyone, but should be aware that the need for all God's children to be able to ‘see, hear and understand’ is essential to participate in a church that provides spiritual growth. David great focus to bring us back to topic.

How reasonable is it to conclude that man's nuclear reactors need intelligent design, but the cosmic solar reactors don't? Did they just come into existence by mere chance? When we contemplate the human body and the mind, we are amazed by their brilliant designs. An instrument cannot create another instrument greater than itself, thus we will have to admit that there is a greater intelligence or consciousness than ourselves. Can we expect to see the one who created all the spectacular things in the universe with human eyes, when we cannot even look directly at the sun? We surely would burn if the larger stars were closer to the earth, then how is it possible for mortals to see pure consciousness with human eyes? What other proof do we need of pure consciousness than the fantastic natural phenomena of life? DavidK, Do we need to light a candle to see the sun? Why one believes in God? another way to say it is, Where is God? Why do you bring that up on a discussion of Ecumenical? The Bible view of rationality: 1 Corinthians 3:18-21 "Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. Therefore let no man glory in men..." "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God." (Matthew 5:8). The pure of heart have a devoted and singularity of heart which enables them to love God without any distractions. Jesus said we should take up our crosses daily. I would say this means to seek God with all our heart, a coming to God like David's prayer "create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me" (Psalm 51:10). DavidK find peace of mind and you will find purity of heart and only then will you know why one believes in God the way one does.

I would say the people on this forum believe in God. DavidK I would say you are at your wit's end as to what to do about it. You keep repeating "Where is God?" If we make a response about God you respond "Where is God?" We answer and you more sternly say, "WHERE IS GOD?" The people on this forum seem to have found God and are happy well adjusted in their relationships with God because it is moving, growing and not static. Where is God? is a question you have to answer for yourself. I hope you find God and peace of mind. When people here explain their relationship with the Supreme which is different than mine I don't attack, but am overjoyed and inspired by their love. We are inspired to try to bring our love to everyone at God's party. Not a party where people get belligerent because God is not an abusive, belligerent god, a god who does not love everyone. I hope you find some allies that guide you to a loving God.

DavidK no need for apology. I posted before I read your last post and was impressed by your opening. Nice to see we are talking together and not at each other.

The finite cannot describe the infinite, but we can have fun trying. An example are the three blind men describing the elephant. I am not going to get into who is right or wrong we can go around and around about that like hamsters in a wheel. In our efforts to describe God and gain knowledge of love, Spirit ect, we use and need concepts and expressions that are beyond our reach. These terms are used to help us reach our goal, to become a better Christian, a better person, or come closer to God. To be born again. A true description of God, for our limited minds in only an attempt to describe God's infinite attributes. He is exalted above all concepts coined and fashioned by the human mind. Nicodemus was a religious leader in his day who lived a morally upright life. He went to Jesus seeking to fill something in his life that was missing. Jesus got right to the point. He told him he needed to start life all over again so he could see the kingdom of God. He had to be born again to get a new nature that was totally different from his current one. Jesus said, "You must be born from above" (John 3:3). An action must be taken by God in heaven that is directed to the rebirth of your soul before you can even see God's kingdom. Even though you are a deeply religious, morally upright person, you must be born again." We all need to be born again. Everyday, every minute. DavidK others here gave this advice to you sincerely. The people here share insights and encourage each mind to see a new life in Spirit, not words. I see and feel it in their writings. It seems you are fighting and swinging everywhere so you don't have to change or budge from a position that is not worth defending with you soul. It is hard to give or receive when both hands are in a fist. Open you mind and heart and your eyes will see. It is all within you.

Our knowledge and perception are both limited, so how can we understand an infinite God that is unlimited? We purify our minds, become aware of Christ consciousness and love God and one another. Love and unity set us free from our selfish desires and show us the way, away form moral condemnation. Ecumenalism and religion serves this purpose. Re and ligio, religious re=again and ligio latin for connect. To reconnect and come into life from the inside, human spirit. Religion and Eumenalism provide us with a discipline of bringing people in rather than leaving them out. The nonverbal arts heal from within a communion with the depth of the infinite ocean. Christians are reasonably literate in the verbal arts, but division seems to grow with injustice and social suffering the result. These our the handicaps of the shallow areas in the infinite ocean, an autism and hysteria that gives some Chrsitians an inability to respond, connect and experience the world of all beings. The spiritual awakening and healing must come from within. It is the spirit that has the capacity to relate to all things and all beings, not just self interests. Ecumenalism is a tool to work with these symptoms of separation, power, and domination so we can understand our physical and spiritual ecology to develop, learn and evolve as an individual, a religion and a society. We need to rekindle the sense of community, a community that opens the spirit and minds with a deeper communion with the infinite. Ecumenalism is the vehicle to humane, heart-awakening, mind-expanding wisdom away from a sentimental denial and mental dullness. We are not separate beings, but human beings with love venturing forth affirming the greatest good as part of our Christian experience. The concept of love is taught in the Bible as well as in other writings, but one does not learn how to love from reading, one only gains the spiritual inspiration to love. Ecumenalism is one way to help spread that love.