BeachOfEden

I got the December issue of the TCPC Newletter in the mail and I was wondering ever since if author James R.Adams was recommending Political Neutrality or not. Because it really sounded like it. If he he..I am NOT condemmming him for this at all. It's just I wasn't sure.

Study world religions for some 15 years now I have noted 'some' actual 'Progressive' changes' and improvements among many very conserative and well-populated faith groups, and I feel that if we learn about these changes, no matter how slight or few amoung Conserative Judeo-Christian faith groups then this can help US by seeing common grounds that we can agree on. We can then highlight and compliment such improvements and such acknoweldgements on our part may soften the hearts of some conseratives who may not be as extra dark in fundamentalism as we may have thought and it may encourage them to make a move to become more progresive. For example... 1.The Catholic Church... USED to teach that hell was an eternal hellfire place or torment but over ten years ago they changed their interpretation to simply mean to be seperated from God. 2. Lutherns reject the Left Behind threats. 3. JW's reject all forms of war. 4. Some Pentacostals allow Women to be preachers 5. Jesus People USA now refuses to use the word "CULT" to discribe other faiths and now calls them "Alternative Faith groups", and urges other Evangelicals to do the same. Groups 1,2, and 3 all reject the notion the hell is an eternal fireplace instead opting for conditionalism. Groups 1, 2 and 3 reject the Left Behind belief. Groups 1 and 3 have also reject this war. And if you can think of others, please add them to the list! thanks!

So I was wondering, in reflection of all this...as Progressive Christians we can clearly see that we concure with Liberal christians on social justice for all...but in your view, do you think that 'maybe" the point about Jesus being "The relm to God for US.." might be the key element 'difference' between Progressive verese liberal Christianity? And you you think that between the far right''s exclusive view on Jesus as savior and everyone ELSE is unsaved....and the far Liberal left of rejecting any sort of any sort of Savior figure even in the form of a Cosmic Christ...might be Progressive Christianity's take on an open salvation posiblity based on the concept of Jesus being our "relm to God." ? Do you think this is the open balanced middle? I would be greatly interested in hearing all Progressive Christian individual's view on this. Thanks!

Because I am not a guy...I can not really say my opinion on what this guy said. I guess I think that whether one is gay or straight to aim to keep ones relationships healthy should be a prime goal. What I DO know is I feel that the United Church of Christ was postively right to run those ads on tv and that we should not turn people away. Not just physically turn them away but I mean we should never even act or make facial expressions of disaprovel of someone regardless of their sexual orietation, gender or race and obviously as Progressives would agree, we should never try and judge someone's approvel in God's eyes because I agree with TCPC that The Golden rule should surpass any and all doctrines...and that is what differs us from fundamental Christianities. :)

That is why I sugested inneracting with those of whom I call "Evangelical Lites" or "Catholic Lites", "Mormon Lites", ect. By the term "Lite" I mean they may not be Progressive..but through conversations and inneractions with them you can tell that they are NOT "extra dark fundamentalists". These types show the most promise of leaning towards social justice/The Golden Rule.

It is true that some relate more with the Liberal Christian's beliefs of those such as Bishop Sponge who view Sciptures as positive myths that inspire ethical living..while others may relate more to a more moderate Progressive view on Christianity, where Scriptures are viewed as having been inspired by God but a claim of all modern day Bibles all do have errors....Dispite these 2 difference theologically...still..both groups share the same views on social justice found in all inclusive Christianity.

I also found this one on MySpace. http://groups.myspace.com/openmindedcatholicsOpen Minded Catholics

These are my favorites #5 Progressive Christianity Yes, there is such a thing! www.tcpc.org #7 The Center for Progressive Christianity Keep the faith, drop the dogma. www.tcpc.org Here's some more... The Center for Progressive Christianity Proclaiming Christ as the gateway to God... without proclaiming exclusive rights to it. www.tcpc.org The Center for Progressive Christianity Proclaiming Christ as the gateway to God. Extending the Golden Rule to both sexes, all races & sexual orientations, the earth and all life on it. www.tcpc.org

Thta is true. On my other thread about What's Your Agenda? I took the libirity of posting two direct links to Beliefnet's "Learn About Progrogressive Christianity," as well as their other one there, "Challenge & Debate Progressive Christianity." You might also like the add these as TCPC links.

See new thread on here intiled,"DCJ- What's Your Agenda?"

If you do NOT share the belief that women should be treated completely equal..and you DO view hell as eternal fire torment...then these beliefs surely would NOT be discribed as "PROGRESSIVE" Christianity. These views you have explained to us that you hold better discribe those of Evangelical or Fundamental Protestantism so maybe you would find more agreement and beliefs in common if you were to join a Evangelical forum rather than to be here on the Ceneter For Progressive Christianity..becuase you'll find that NO ONE HERE will agree with the view that women are NOT eual nor the hell IS an eternal fireplace for the hopelessy evil. If you doubt my statemtns on this...simply re-READ the 8 points of Progressive Christianity or asked the owners of this web site.

Would any other Progressive Christians like to add their thoughts on this?

I would love to here other Progressive Christian's take on all this. Thanks!

This one book that a Catholic wrote sounds good: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...656825?v=glance It has good reviews. If anyone gets to read it before me..let us know your review on it.

I don't mean to sound rude, DCJ, but this quote of yours, "We should not let our sense of fairness cloud our search for the truth," does not sound Progressive at all. I am started to wonder if you are a Progressive or even a moderate Christian at all. The 8 points of Progressive christianity, as pointed out on the TCPC main page is build on the foundation of reason and not having to leave your brain at the door when you enter a church...type mentality. In contrast, fundamental Christianity tells us that we should not ponder contridictions that we find in their church interpretations. that we should not reason on how it could be that the bible says, "That God wants no one to perish," then turn right around and teach that God delights in thowing people into a burning hell forever. That we should not ponder how it can be that Galatians 3:28 says that "Their is neither male or female...but rather ALL beocme equal through Christ," one minutue then turn right around and say that the Bible says women are not equal. We DO ponder these contridictions as because we DO ponder these contridictions we REASON that God does not contridict so if their lies conditions in the interpretations of the Bible then the problem lies right there..on human's 'interpreations'...of the Bible. Therefore, as a Progressive Christian I shall question Billy graham'sinterpretations of the Bible and salvation..because to me..they surely contridict Jesus' messge of a 'fair' chance for 'ALL.'

Aletheia, as an XJW myself...I can understand where you are coming from..that is disguist with fundamental faiths using end-of-the-world threats to scare members into not questioning them. But it is noteworhty that there ARE many liberal religions that believe in millennialism but it's positive. For example the Bahia, the Hopi Native Americans, and many New Age New Thought groups. I have found that many of these groups also believe in a renewl of our earth but withOUT the JW-style members-ONLY catch added to it.

I guess these 'Christians' have never read Revelation 11:18.

In the lastest TCPC newsletter there was a quote by author James R. Adams that is an interesting quote. He quoted Jesus words saying, "MY Kingdom is no part of this world." Then he replied, "I certainly wouldn't want politicans who indentify themselves as progressive Christians running the country anymore than i would like self-proclaimed born-again Christians being in charge. I think that having any religious group dominate the government is dangerous. In my poinion, our focus must be on the transformation of ourselves, our churches, and our society___in that order." Tell me thoughts on these quotes.

"just that the Bible has essentially been interpreted as correctly as possible from the earliest manuscripts possible." But, "been interpreted as correctly as possible." By whom? Today the such beliefs as the 'rapture' hell being a literla eternal fire pit for the hopelssly evil, and the belief that women are forbidden from being pastors....all these beliefs ARE viewed as being interpretated as ," been interpreted as correctly as possible," to the orginal bible manuscripts..by the fundamentalists "I am a Christian that believes that the Bible is true, that Jesus is the Son of God, that there was a virgin birth, a crucifixion, a ressurrection, etc. " I believe in all these things too..but the problem is along with these many Evangelicals also embrace these as being "bibically true," the 'rapture' hell being a literla eternal fire pit for the hopelssly evil, and the belief that women are forbidden from being pastors,ect. "I do not approve of politics in my Church. I certainly do not approve of my Faith being used to further a political agenda," Actaully this would be a interesting thread within itself. Maybe I will start one.

If that is your view that the Fundamental's view is correct and 99% of the modern day copies of the Bible have been unchanged...then I wonder what about your take on christianity could be considered "Progressive."

See other thread"Billy Graham's View On Salvation."

I mean think about it. If you go by Billy graham's take on slavation then that would mean that a vast majority of those people who died in India who were washed away by that flood are eternally screwed because may have called upon the name Krishna or Buddha instead of Jesus. Does that seem like a 'fair' salvation to you?

..which is in the middle...

I think there's a difference between Jesus telling people to, "Go on your way and sin no more," that is..to repent verses Billy Graham telling people that there is No chance of hope after death if you never met Jesus. There is universalim on the far left and there is the Billy Graham Evangeliclaism on the far right there says there is no fair change after death and I believe there IS a balance 'fair' option in the Bible that IS both fair and bibical and thus progressive.

BrotherRog, can you copy, and then cut-n-past this pdf link on here? Cause I presently can not access pdf formats. Thanks And here's a GREAT article entitled When Truth Gets Left Behind, put out by the Christian Research Council (CRI) - a rather conservative Christian apologetics organization. It is interesting to me that even they speak out against this kind of premillennial dispensatitionalist mania. Simply cut and paste the following link: http://www.equip.org/free/DW257.pdf :)BeachOfEden