How Do We Know It Is Of The Spirit?

[AletheiaRivers]

And with this all in mind, perhaps the meaning of the cross has to do with symbolizing hidden, up and down and back and forth movement of spirit.

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I'm glad you brought up this point. This view of the cross is deeply esoteric and very mystical.

 

The cross, like the Tree of Life, (the axis mundi,) symbolizes the connection between heaven and earth, between spiritual and material, between life and death.

[AletheiaRivers]

Which leads me to consider the merits of panentheism, that God is an all-pervasive spirit. That the God from which we came is the God into whom we return. (yes, I know my sentence structure sucks. but this is a forum, not a literary society, and I try to type like I speak.)

 

First off, your sentence structure does not "suck." I think you write very well.

 

Secondly, I agree. I might rephrase your sentence to say: "The God from which we came, is the God in whom we exist, and to whom we will return."

 

We never leave God. It's impossible. So even now, with our individual personality quirks, we are part of God. We just don't see it.

 

If that is truly the case, then there may be no need (or even desire) for some sort of consciousness that *we* still exist. To say that we still exist implies that we are still something separated from God. There is God...and there is us.

 

Certain passages in the Bible do speak of everything being eventually consumated in God, of God being "all in all." If/when that happens, I think it is reasonable to assume that we will lose all sense of separateness. If/when that happens, we might very well be united with our loved ones in a way that was never possible "down here", in a way that transcends individuality. Maybe sort of like the Borg? One consciousness, one mind, one unity where distinctions are no longer necessary nor desired.

 

I go back and forth on this point. My overall view is that we, sentient consciousnesses, are important to God in some way. It may be that the "afterlife" will be a unitive dissolution of our egos. It may be that it will be a unitive participation, a blending of consciousness, but still some sense of distinction. It's possible. If we are part of God now, as in panentheism, and we have a sense of distinction (perhaps one that is way too strong), then a lesser, more unitive sense might be what's in store afterward. It's not all that foreign a concept to Christianity. The unitive idea is somewhat similar to Theosis in the EO church.

 

I can say that I do not hold the stereotypical idea of ghosts or of floating on clouds or of living inside the pearly gates.

 

But then again, I could be wrong.

[AletheiaRivers]

I don't know where the lines are for human components (and I'm not sure they are necessary) just as I don't know where the line is between divinity and humanity. The notion of salvation, according to the whole Bible, is a more holistic concept of healing of body, soul, and spirit anyway -- a restoration of wholeness.

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I tried to express this exact same idea, in a rather sarcastic way I admit, in another thread. What is spirit? What is soul? What is matter? How do we know that they aren't actually the same thing? Why are we so insistent upon dualities? The duality of body and soul? Of God and creation?

 

I agree with what you've said about salvation. As I said in the above response, if God sustains us, if panentheism is true, then the difference between "sin" and wholeness is but a hair's breadth. The truth is that wholeness is here. The Kingdom of God is within.

[soma]

We are in the sky so it is all around us, not just above us. I like the idea that there are no lines or boundaries. Jesus did say, "I and the Father are one." We make the lines and the boundaries, but this means that all paths lead no where because we are already there so why do we take up a path? I must remind myself that the path is only to make oneself more aware. If it is not making me more conscious or stronger than it is making me weaker. A divine path makes me more human and a human path should make me more divine. I am going no where fast.

[flowperson]

HARMONIC CONVERGENCE RULES !!!

 

flow....

[October's Autumn]

I think that part of the problem is that we, like the Greeks, want to compartmentalize and disect everything. What is spirit? What is soul? What is body? We want clear lines of deliniation and the scriptures (let alone medical science) just are not clear and concise on such subjects. As you've said, it is all conjecture.

 

And like Greeks see the body as corrupt and the soul/spirit as pure. I disagree with that viewpoint. I think they are all one in the same. What people might consider soul I think of as personality.

 

It is brain chemicals/functioning, ultimately. If some one gets a nasty bump on the head their personality will change. (I remember years ago the story of Barbara Mandell who was in an accident and apparently went from a very nice, even tempered person to a B****). Of course in most people personality is stable. But you give them the right drugs or that nasty bump and you see a whole different person. Same is true for someone with dementia. My grandfather went from a sweet old man with an awesome sense of humor to a a violent, vile, person and back. I simple bladder infection was the cause.

 

Kind of makes ya think... huh?

[Jeannot]

I think that part of the problem is that we, like the Greeks, want to compartmentalize and disect everything. What is spirit? What is soul? What is body? We want clear lines of deliniation and the scriptures (let alone medical science) just are not clear and concise on such subjects. As you've said, it is all conjecture.

 

And like Greeks see the body as corrupt and the soul/spirit as pure. I disagree with that viewpoint. I think they are all one in the same. What people might consider soul I think of as personality.

 

It is brain chemicals/functioning, ultimately. If some one gets a nasty bump on the head their personality will change. (I remember years ago the story of Barbara Mandell who was in an accident and apparently went from a very nice, even tempered person to a B****). Of course in most people personality is stable. But you give them the right drugs or that nasty bump and you see a whole different person. Same is true for someone with dementia. My grandfather went from a sweet old man with an awesome sense of humor to a a violent, vile, person and back. I simple bladder infection was the cause.

 

Kind of makes ya think... huh?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Then there's Alzheimer's, where the person kind of vanishes before your eyes, tho the lviing body remains.

[soma]

As we acquire unity, we see that nothing exist in isolation so the nature of our being is unity, a unity of body, mind and spirit. Wholeness or holiness can be achieved with a watchful mind and the knowledge that everything is united in God, if old fears, doubts and prejudices wear away to make room for new ideas and understanding.

 

The yin and yang.

 

With the development of love and the enfoldment of our spiritual consciousness, it becomes necessary for us to see ourselves not as body parts, but in a state of consciousness, appearing to others as a body. We cannot see love or consciousness, but we must understand that we exist as consciousness and become aware of this reality.

 

Christ is demonstrating the union between our soul and God because our soul is nearer to God than it is to our body. We have higher and lower powers just like Jesus because we enjoy the bliss of eternity while, at the same time, suffering and struggling here on earth.

 

Isn't it fun to go back and forth.

[soma]

Enjoyed this quote, Aletheia. I'm hoping that as the church moves out of the 20th century and into the 21st, it will be transformed into a church that desires, fosters, and encourages this awareness. We don't need more doctrines. We don't need more creeds. We need people who are aware -- to God, to each other, to the world, to ourselves. When we become truly aware, we become truly alive.

wayfarer2k

 

I like this we must contemplate and find the temple within ourselves just like it is in the word contemplate.

[Jeannot]

Well said, Soma. I guess Aletheia's quote you're referring to is, The Kingdom of God is within (and among) us? (The quote is a little ambivalent since the Greek entos can mean either "within" or "among." I think both fit, so it's a creative ambivalence)

 

More Greek pendantry--Psyche can mean soul or mind. Our term "psychology," for example, means the study of mind.

 

But the Greeks had a separte word for spirit--pneuma. I'm not saying that we should be bound by linguistic concepts, since ALL language is limited, but this distinction is suggestive. The Neo-Platonists--including Augustine--saw humans as having a tripartite structure--body (SOMA!, soul or mind, and Spirit. Since God is pure spirit, our spirit must be the way we're in the "image and likeness of God."

[Realspiritik]

Unfortunately (or fortunately), there is no prescribed way, no official program or course of action to get into touch with Spirit.

 

Are you sure about this?

[soma]

God is Omnipotent and Almighty. He created mankind and formed each idnividual and is guiding each one of us in a different way. I kneel in awe at His power how he teaches in Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, the Torah, and the Bible. I praise His workmanship. How wonderful it is to hear his word in all these ways and to slip our hand into his/hers in any culture or path we choose. I thank Jesus for being the wellspring of knowledge, health, wisdom, and mercy in my vessel so I can see him everywhere guiding all in an individual way.

 

The sun is setting we all see a different path leading to it, but the sun is the same. Enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!