Doing Greater Things

[cunninglily]

Lily - I just read about the "stop" as the discipline of silence - basically only speaking (eh... writing) when you actually feel moved by the Holy Spirit to do so.  I'm impressed!  I am working up to that discipline.  God is helping me... everytime I try to talk and explain something that has been misunderstood (in the real world) I am soundly punished  .... two ears, one mouth.... I'm starting to catch on!

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Well, don't be impressed. I assure you that I do not speak only when the Spirit moves me to speak. There are just times when I know to be quiet even if I don't know why.

 

 

lily

[AletheiaRivers]

Whew! Cool. Thanks guys.

[cunninglily]

In the end, everyone had been invited, but only a few were permitted to stay for the wedding. In other words, everyone is called, but some people refuse the invitation and are not chosen.

 

 

"...the claim of Jesus that the teachings of The Way was the Ultimate Truth which was Universal to all of mankind the world over, was based upon the core reality that these sacred teachings embraced a process of transformation that LITERALLY GUARANTEED RESULTS. An important element to the process was based upon the knowledge that when one of the Laws and Tenets of God’s Royal Law was violated by any man or woman, that their action would invoke an appropriate response in the opposite direction that would eventually correct the flaw which caused the violation of Law. Men of wisdom had long pointed out that when those who were invited to the Marriage celebration had not put on the robe of perfection, they were cast into the "outer darkness" (Mt 8:12;22:13;25:13) -- NOT SO MUCH AS PUNISHMENT, but as a means to bring about the perfection of the individual."

 

 

We can never place ourselves outside the Love of God. Nor does the Father ever wash His Hands of any one of us. EVERYTHING is PROCESS. Nor does the Father punish; it is our own actions and non-actions that result in consequences which the Father "uses" for our ultimate good and salvation.

 

In the Major Arcana of the Tarot, two *keys*, or cards, in particular, symbolize this Principle. The first key of the 22 Major Arcana is the Fool, attributed to the Hebrew letter Alef, which translated means "ox". The Fool is a symbol of your True Self or Eternal Self; that Self which was "known" before you were placed in your earthly mothers womb. The eleventh key of the Major Arcana is Justice, attributed to the Hebrew letter Lamed, which translated means "ox-goad". In other words, the principle of Justice is Gods *ox-goad*. The "Builders of the Adytum", with whom I study, instructs regarding the Justice key, to recognize the "unfailing Justice in all the circumstances of our lives." Everything we are in belongs to us. Every circumstance of our lives is a result of the unerring principle of Gods Justice, and all is to bring us to perfection in Christ. Therefore, God does not punish; He instructs and disciplines, just as any loving parent.

 

 

lily

[TheMeekShall]

A loving parent gives his children the ability to be greater; maybe we can't everything Jesus could but here are some great things Jesus didn't do:

 

 

Ghandhi - freed a nation from an oppressor thru love.

 

Contraception - ultimately the only way to stop famine.

 

Medicine - saved billions of lives.

 

The Internet - World Peace & Prosperity?

 

Don't underestmate yourselves.

[TheMeekShall]

I loved the story too. I often befriend prostitutes who are looking for "dates". They can be some of the sweetest people I know, even when they're using herione. At first I thought they might be just interested in my money, but they've consistantly been kind, especially when I've needed them. I didn't expect anything in return, but I've gotten plenty.

 

I've talked to exhookers who are in drug recovery, they said they were really starved for attention.

 

LOVE A HOOKER TODAY!

[AletheiaRivers]

Bumping bumping older threads, do da, do da ...

[flowperson]

Bumping bumping older threads, do da, do da ...

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You sing so well !!

 

flow....

[des]

She does! I am taking her on the road with me when I do the first annual des recorder and vocals concert at Carnegie Hall this year. ;-)

 

--des

 

Bumping bumping older threads, do da, do da ...

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You sing so well !!

 

flow....

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[AletheiaRivers]

She does! I am taking her on the road with me when I do the  first annual des recorder and vocals concert at Carnegie Hall this year. ;-)

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Hehehehehehehehe

[October's Autumn]

Which was exactly why I shared the story from Campolo: because he is a conservative. 

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I took a class with him. He doesn't have a conservative bone in his body He is actually a moderate. It was from him I learned that people were actually gay. Previous to that I was under the impression that people had sexual encounters with members of the same sex like a one night stand. He is also in favor of *most* gay rights.

 

At the time I went to college he was not in favor of gay marriage but his wife is and so are many of his family members. He is very open on the fact (or was) that it is his own personal belief and not necessarily right. I don't know where he stands now. I personally have faith that he will come around to seeing what is right.

[October's Autumn]

In JW theology the body of man was combined with the animating force of God (breath of life or spirit) to create a living person (soul). Basically body + breath = living soul. In JW theology there is no immortal anything. Nothing that survives death. They hope in a resurrection to earth.

 

Everyone once in a while I will hear about JW theology and realize they have a better understanding of the bible than many Christians. Since we were just discussing Tony Campolo, this is (or at least was) his personal belief. I think the term used is "soul sleep." I personally believe that if their is any kind of afterlife that it will come through a resurrection. It is certainly supported by the bible. I don't believe the soul is a separate thing from the body. It is more of a gut feeling belief since I really have no way of knowing.

[October's Autumn]

I'm not saying that the Christian message is heaven salvation oriented. I don't believe that. I believe that "salvation" is about TODAY. It's about now. But perhaps it's also MORE than about NOW. Perhaps it's both.

 

This is also Jewish teaching. The focus is not on the hereafter but on NOW. Salvation is about NOW. THe whole Kingdom of Heaven is at hand is about NOW.

[flowperson]

Everyday we create tomorrow, and the next day, and the day after that, until time runs out and our progeny have created all that is possible.This is the meaning of the part of G-d that is within each of us and has been there since the beginining of it all. And if we allow hate, violence, war, unjust separations from each other, and indifference towards each other to overcome that linear progression intended for us by G-d since the very beginning, then we are doing the work of the enemy.

 

But the enemy is a liar. It will always pretend to be part of the progression of history and time, but all the while will be working through non-linear interventions to reverse the progression of human history. In a free society we should be free to point to specific instances in our culture that are impediments to the progression of G-d's human story, but these days if we attempt to do that in an active manner we are likely to be spied upon or worse. It begs the question of how free we really are in this great country.

 

Any thoughts ?

 

flow....

[October's Autumn]

Everyday we create tomorrow, and the next day, and the day after that, until time runs out and our progeny have created all that is possible.This is the meaning of the part of G-d that is within each of us and has been there since the beginining of it all. And if we allow hate, violence, war, unjust separations from each other, and indifference towards each other to overcome that linear progression intended for us by G-d since the very beginning, then we are doing the work of the enemy.

 

 

Wow, Flow! Thanks. You just helped me put together two ideas I'd previously held separately. I'd never connected the creating tomorrow on our own and with our progeny with my views on violence. I had a more simplistic (?) view simply that violence was wrong. Never really *why* in the sense that you describe it.

[AletheiaRivers]

I took a class with him.  He doesn't have a conservative bone in his body   He is actually a moderate. 

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Campolo's being conservative was a mistaken view that I acquired when I first came to the board. It wasn't corrected for me until this post (thanks Darby). I researched him after this thread and realized that his being called conservative by liberals is a mistake. He is a lot more conservative and literal than most liberals, so from that point of view he's "conservative." But no, I wouldn't call him conservative now that I know better. I'd just call him Christian.

Edited January 16, 2006 by AletheiaRivers

[AletheiaRivers]

Everyone once in a while I will hear about JW theology and realize they have a better understanding of the bible than many Christians.

 

In a lot of things, yes, I'd have to agree. However, they are hyper-literal in other things, especially "end times" crap.

 

Since we were just discussing Tony Campolo, this is (or at least was) his personal belief.  I think the term used is "soul sleep."

 

N.T. Wright focuses on a literal, earthly resurrection as well. I'd say such a teaching is "more Biblical" than a soul being pre-existent before this life, or surviving after the body. More and more Christians are turning to this belief.

 

My view of the "afterlife" is influenced by the Jewish belief about the soul. However, it doesn't lead me to believe in a literal, earthly, bodily resurrection like it does JW's. An awesome analogy to how Judaism views "ruach, nephesh and neshama" is that of a glass blower. As a glass blower creates, he blows into the end of a pipe. The breath travels through the pipe. And it comes to rest in the vessel. It is the same meaning for "nephesh, neshama and ruach." That breath which comes to rest in us, in creation, shapes and animates us. When that "vessel" is broken, the breath returns to he who sent it.

 

Anyway, biblical or not, I do lean towards believing that something of "us" survives physical death. Perhaps "resurrection" is that state that we attain instantly upon death? I think metaphysically, it makes more sense, as opposed to waiting for some future "end time" when the dead will be raised and judged. I could always change my mind tomorrow though. I seem to do that a lot.

 

I personally believe that if their is any kind of afterlife that it will come through a resurrection.  It is certainly supported by the bible.  I don't believe the soul is a separate thing from the body.  It is more of a gut feeling belief since I really have no way of knowing.

 

Yeah, I don't believe that human bodies are houses for immaterial souls either. I do still think of humans as BEING souls, rather than having them. It's just that now my ontology is so much different than it was even a year ago, let alone when I was a JW. I'm a panentheist, which puts a whole new twist on things. And in some respects (like Fred), I'm a monist (which might not be the best word to use, as it doesn't necessarily mean what I'm thinking of).

Edited January 16, 2006 by AletheiaRivers

[October's Autumn]

I took a class with him.  He doesn't have a conservative bone in his body   He is actually a moderate. 

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Campolo's being conservative was a mistaken view that I acquired when I first came to the board. It wasn't corrected for me until this post (thanks Darby). I researched him after this thread and realized that his being called conservative by liberals is a mistake. He is a lot more conservative and literal than most liberals, so from that point of view he's "conservative." But no, I wouldn't call him conservative now that I know better. I'd just call him Christian.

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After I posted I saw the correction. Yes, conservative compared to liberals but liberal compared to conservatives. That is why I opted for moderate. I originally wrote "progresssive moderate" but I'm not sure how progressive he is in the sense of still growin in belief or if he is pretty staid in his beliefs. As far as his actions go he is definately progressive, his story about the prostitutes is a good example. He is approaching 70 and I think after he turned 50ish he decided he really didn't care what people thought about him which is why he felt comfortable with "hiring" the prostitutes. Of course, he didn't hide it. He tells the story and even wrote about it. That lends to the fact that he is above board with it.

 

I can just imagine what the Right would do to twist the story were he a politician. (I'm currently reading Al Franken's book Lies and the Lying Liars who tell them: a Fair and Balanced Look at the Right I will never think I'm being paranoid the next time I think a politian or the media is lying!

[October's Autumn]

An awesome analogy to how Judaism views "ruach, nephesh and neshama" is that of a glass blower. As a glass blower creates, he blows into the end of a pipe. The breath travels through the pipe. And it comes to rest in the vessel. It is the same meaning for "nephesh, neshama and ruach." That breath which comes to rest in us, in creation, shapes and animates us. When that "vessel" is broken, the breath returns to he who sent it.

 

That is very cool. I like that analogy!

[AletheiaRivers]

I can just imagine what the Right would do to twist the story were he a politician.  (I'm currently reading Al Franken's book Lies and the Lying Liars who tell them:  a Fair and Balanced Look at the Right  I will never think I'm being paranoid the next time I think a politian or the media is lying!

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I loved Franken's book when I first read it. I look at it now with a teeny grain of salt. He is such a riot though. I never stopped laughing throught the whole book.

[October's Autumn]

I can just imagine what the Right would do to twist the story were he a politician.  (I'm currently reading Al Franken's book Lies and the Lying Liars who tell them:  a Fair and Balanced Look at the Right  I will never think I'm being paranoid the next time I think a politian or the media is lying!

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I loved Franken's book when I first read it. I look at it now with a teeny grain of salt. He is such a riot though. I never stopped laughing throught the whole book.

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Yeah, I take it with a grain of salt. I don't agree with all of his conclusions. Although, as I once told a child who had the habit of lying: when someone is caught repeatedly lying it is natural for others to tend to assume they are lying even when they may not be. Someone needs to tell that to Bill O'Reily and Anne Coulter, to name a few!

 

I enjoy Franken's intelligence as well as his wit.