minsocal

Was it Dutch Reformed? I am familiar with Jung's description of the soul. You are correct; it very much coincides with the Jewish perspective. Of course, without all the supernatural stuff.

 

NORM

Norm,

It was German Reformed and what is now part of the United Church of Christ.

"- And you shall love the L-rd your G-d with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might."

This has been part of our weekly Service for as long as I can remember. Still is.

Myron

This is very close to a Jewish understanding of the soul.

 

We do not separate it from the body and mind. We do not bend, fold or mutilate the soul. The Shema (our morning and evening prayers) tell us:

 

V'ahav'ta eit Adonai Elohekha b'khol l'vav'kha uv'khol naf'sh'kha uv'khol m'odekha

- And you shall love the L-rd your G-d with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

 

I view the "soul" as the complete package; i.e. - Me.

 

Thanks for sharing this. I wish all Christians had your perspective.

 

NORM

Norm,

This is the same understanding I grew up with, but in a progresssive Protestant denomination. It also matches C. G. Jung's definition of "soul". There is a deep history here, I suspect.

Myron

We are wired for intra-group cooperation and inter-group competition.

 

George

George,

What interests me is that intra-group cooperation is felt as elevating and uplifting. It seems to be at the core of compassion. Haidt does not use the word compassion or altruism in the video, but does in his technical writings.

Myron

I watched the video for a second time looking for the key concepts Haidt uses. As I mentioned previously, Haidt studies human emotions. His research verifies that our emotions have two ways of relating to the world. One way relates self-to-world and the other way relates world-to-self. (I thank the philosopher John Searle for the core concept of direction of fit.) It would make sense if evolution matched real world demands. There are times, such as war, when cooperation is essential to survival.

The claim that Haidt makes is simple, yet complex. We need both competion and cooperation to survive. There must then be emotions promoting both. The emotions underlying cooperation are called "collective emotions".

Perhaps the best of this video comes where Haidt says that self-transcendance is recognition of "the sacredness of all around us". This is direct agreement with Albert Schweitzer, A. N. Whitehead, William James (cited by Haidt), and many others. Haidt is very well read.

Western cultures tend to portray emotion in opposition to rationality. Buddhism makes no such distinction. If I experience an emotion called "elevation" I know it. How? The area around my heart seems loosened up and "warmed", my breathing and heart rate fall into a a synchronous pattern. I feel ... relieved, at ease, no longer in conflict with the flow of the world.

Elevation overlaps the concept of inspiration.

Myron,

I am also glad to see you back.

--------------------

The video presentation is designed to elicite a variety of emotions as Haidt delivers his talk. Several times, he mentions an emotion called "elevation"

------------

Thanks for pointing this out.

 

Dutch

Thanks Dutch,

Myron

Absolutely. If there were no useful purpose we wouldn't have them. They didn't develop to entertain us, although that is sometimes a side benefit. They help attract us to positive things and help keep us away from danger.

 

Myron, it is good to have you back.

 

George

Thank you, George

The subject of our "dual nature" has a long history. The progressive model I grew up with said that there are times to pay attention to care of the self, and times to pay attention to care of others. Haidt is one of the few who is willing to address the implications of both.

Evolution gave us emotions. Emotions change as environmental conditions change. They are informative and not permanent states. What Haidt is really talking about is a feedback loop. Jung placed this concept at the center of his theory. The idea is that there is a balance of states over time moving from the self to others, and back again. Up the stairs and down the stairs.

Myron

Haidt is a social psychologist who studies human emotions. The video presentation is designed to elicite a variety of emotions as Haidt delivers his talk. Several times, he mentions an emotion called "elevation". I felt it several times during the presentation. In ordinary language we somtimes express a feeling of being "uplifted" or "enlightened", etc. It could even be called and "ah ha" experience. Maslow called it "an oceanic feeling of oneness with the world". It is what Jung means when he talks of a "numinous" experience. Other psycholgists talk about attachment and bonding. All of these terms find their way into Haidt's presentation in some form.

Evolution is pragmatic. Used wisely, positive emotions enrich and expand consciouness. Jung saw this and considered conscious feelings of emotions as rational. The same is at the core of Whitehead's work.

I've been here a long time. I've noticed that the evolution of this board has become very conservatitve. It makes me quite uncomfortable.

Myron,

 

With all respect, even one of the authors in the article you quote seems to argue that things are moving forward:

 

"We feel that it's not an actual increase in violence but that there are reasons this kind of violence is being recognized for what it is," Jindasurat said. "One big reason is that now its more acceptable to talk about LGBT communities in general."

 

I would agree that change isn't happening fast enough, but I really don't think society is heading backwards when it comes to LGBT issues.

 

Cheers

Paul

Yes, that is the view I often encounter. And the reason I have now left the fold of this 'progressive' ... whatever it is... I'll go somewhere else where people listen.

Myron,

 

With all respect, even one of the authors in the article you quote seems to argue that things are moving forward:

 

"We feel that it's not an actual increase in violence but that there are reasons this kind of violence is being recognized for what it is," Jindasurat said. "One big reason is that now its more acceptable to talk about LGBT communities in general."

 

I would agree that change isn't happening fast enough, but I really don't think society is heading backwards when it comes to LGBT issues.

 

Cheers

Paul

Murders are up.

Teen suicides are up.

What do you need?

Myron,

 

With all respect, even one of the authors in the article you quote seems to argue that things are moving forward:

 

"We feel that it's not an actual increase in violence but that there are reasons this kind of violence is being recognized for what it is," Jindasurat said. "One big reason is that now its more acceptable to talk about LGBT communities in general."

 

I would agree that change isn't happening fast enough, but I really don't think society is heading backwards when it comes to LGBT issues.

 

Cheers

Paul

Yes, I'm sure you know how I feel.

"Highest Number Of Anti-Gay Murders Ever Reported In 2011: The National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/02/anti-gay-hate-crimes-murders-national-coalition-of-anti-violence-programs_n_1564885.html

In the early days of AIDS, most men were absent. Many women, straight or lesbian responded with care. They are the ones I respect.

Myron, I can't. But isn't it the attitude of society in general, that is the issue?

 

George

George,

Yes, and that attitude includes a strong inclination to ignore any input from the LGBT community as 'defective'.

Myron

Myron,

 

Do you really think we are moving backwards? I think attitude surveys are very clear. Nowhere in the U.S, not many years ago, could gays marry. Don't-ask-don't-tell was progressive in 1993. Etc., etc.

 

George

Name me a single survey of gays.

But, I'm a member of the LGBT community. The only change I see is backwards.

How will this take place?

I am not an expert on apologetics, but I can't see any reason why not.

 

George

George,

I can't bring any to mind, I was wondering if "aplogetics" is just an artifact of male hierarchy?

Myron

I'm not well versed on apolgetics. Are there any female apologetics?

Just asking.

How would any person know the intentions of a person's behavior? Not by the behavior alone.

Wow! It's happened. The main page of ProgressiveChristianity has changed. I like it.

"O God

We have said, “Your word is a lamp for our feet, a light for our path.”

Sometimes it seems more like a flickering candle.

We ask for your presence tonight with us here in this place.

We ask for wisdom as we discuss difficult issues.

We ask for the bright light of your truth to shine in our hearts and minds, that our worship of You may include our intellects as well as our love. Amen."

I'm home again.

Myron

I will offer my own prayer.

"May we find a way for people not to suffer. May we find a way for people not to suffer at our own hands. May we rejoin "You" so that people do not have to suffer?"

Myron

There is an omipotent G-d, and there is a Wise G-d. The same applies to humans.

Sorry, I didn't intend to frame a definition of prayer. I was just examining the claims by 'supernatural theists.' Confessed beliefs (God is omnipotent and answers prayers) and their prayer behavior don't seem to be consistent.

 

George

George,

Many, many years ago, I heard a simple sermon. Yes, G-d is omnipotent, and so G-d can say "no".

Myron