jerryb
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Posts posted by jerryb
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Hi aletheia,
I believe that I am at about the same stage in my search for Jesus that you are.
And I struggle almost daily to make sense of how I'm feeling.
Perhaps that's the real beauty and appeal of christianity,it's mystery.
However....even though I love mystery...my soul craves certainty,and I'm caught in the tension of those two emotions.
Maybe you can share what you've discovered about this in your own spiritual walk.
Blessings,
Jerryb
Hi Jerry, welcome to the board. Sorry it took me a day to get to your post. I've actually been hanging out on another board. Don't tell anyone.
I don't know if you've read any other posts on the board that describe my armchair philosophizing over the last few months, but in a nutshell -I'm still searching, still learning, and still a little lost.
My search for God has lead me a bit towards more traditional Christianity, although I'm sure they would still consider me too liberal.
I started with the premise that God exists and from that has flowed many ideas (social trinitarianism, open view theism, universalism, "soul making") that just happen to exist in Christianity (though some disagree) as well.
I had to step away from Christianity and the Bible in order to come back to it (over a process of about 5 years).
The tension between mystery and certainty that you mention? I think that's exactly where we are supposed to be.
If you want to talk privately via email or messenger let me know.
Hi Aletheia,
I promise not to tell about your other "hang-out".....of course now....everybody knows. Just kidding!
You mentioned that your journey back was a process of 5 years...I can relate to that. For ten long years I was completely away from the church,religion,etc. I tried my best to become an atheist,but it didn't work. So I went seminary...pastored a church for ten years...but again....it just wasn't working. But strangely enough,I am much happier as a "seeker", or as the book "Looking for God knows what" by
Donald Miller says..." Sometimes I feel as though I were born in a circus...shot out of a cannon..felt myself falling through the air...and suddenly realized there is no net".
The "falling" was both scary and intoxicating for me,because it gave me the most
incredible feeling of freedom that I had ever known.
And that is why I so enjoy hearing the stories of path-finding that you and others share on this board.
Godspeed my friend ,
Jerryb
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As I've read and browsed authors (of a liberal bent) that teach a Christianity that has turned Jesus into a very wise and very good man, I get conflicted.
The logical, skeptical, brainiac me thinks "I can accept this Jesus. This Jesus, a great man, could have existed. He was a radical Jew attempting to bring reform to his people and his nation. I should follow him, be like him and find meaning in that."
But then I wonder "Why bother? There are other figures throughout history, political activists and thinkers, that I am drawn to as well. Is that all Jesus means to me? Is that all Jesus was?"
Then I read and browse authors (of a not so liberal bent) that teach Jesus as the son of God or God incarnate, but not in the ways that you might think. These authors (like Yancey, Lewis and McLaren) aren't liberal, but they are not exactly conservative either.
The intuitive, receptive, mystical me thinks "I love the idea that God chose to come to Earth in corporeal form to interact with and relate to human beings on our level. Wow! I don't think I can believe that it was to die a sacrificial death for my sins, but I CAN believe that it was to teach humankind the best way to live."
However, (imo) this removes Jesus from his Jewish context and who he may have been historically. Does the Bible really teach that Jesus was God incarnate?
If Jesus was just a man - Why bother?
If Jesus was God incarnate - WOW! - but was he really?
I'm coming to find that I'm somewhere in between. Perhaps Jesus was just a man that, by being adopted by God, became divine? I know that the Jewish idea of the messiah or Christ is not this, but perhaps Jesus became "the Christ" not because he was the Jewish messiah, but because he was adopted by God?
So yes, I think the divinity of Jesus is very important if Christianity is to survive. I'm just not sure how to go about it.
Hi aletheia,
I believe that I am at about the same stage in my search for Jesus that you are.
And I struggle almost daily to make sense of how I'm feeling.
Perhaps that's the real beauty and appeal of christianity,it's mystery.
However....even though I love mystery...my soul craves certainty,and I'm caught in the tension of those two emotions.
Maybe you can share what you've discovered about this in your own spiritual walk.
Blessings,
Jerryb
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Hi fred,
I just began reading a book on Gnosticism by Hoeller. The first chapter was very enlightening. I look forward to hearing more of your take on this subject.
Godspeed,
Jerryb
Happy Birthday Jerry!
I've flipped through that book quite a bit, and will probably pick it up eventually. The gnosis.org site is actually mostly Hoeller's articles anyway. He has also written a book called The Gnostic Jung. It should be fairly obvious from my original post on this topic that I'm a big Jung fan.
Hi Fred,
Thanks for the birthday greeting.
I am more impressed every day by the Gnostic tradition. Much of my reading lately seems to take me in that direction.
You have to wonder about all those centuries before the arrival of written works...
how did people find out how to relate to God?.....Perhaps through the concept of
"inner Knowing",or gnosticism.
Blessings,
Jerryb
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Lately I've been trying to tackle Gnosticism -- not so much as an approach to spirituality, which probably wouldn't shock anyone around here too badly, but as an approach to metaphysics and cosmology. Whereas Liberalism and Literalism clash over the historical and scientific claims of Chrisitanity, Orthodoxy and Gnosticism clash over the metaphysical and epistemological foundations of Christianity -- and it's a much more interesting battle I think. Gnosticism takes most of the foundational narratives of the Bible and thoroughly inverts their ordinary meaning -- about as good an example of a Hegelian antithesis as you could ask for. This leads to some startling interpretations of the creation and fall stories in Genesis, to say the least.
Anyway, I'm not so much interested in adopting it as a philosophy as it is, but I'm captivated by it as a photographic negative of Christian orthodoxy. It is in many fascinating ways the Jungian shadow of Christianity, preserving some important but partial truths in the language of myths and dreamlike images, until Christianity's orthodox "ego" is able to integrate them into its religious consciousness.
One such important but partial truth, it seems to me of late, is that ignorance, suffering, and death are part of the Cosmos by design -- contrary to conservative Christianity, which sees them as the result of human sin -- and that they are malignant spiritual forces -- contrary to liberal Christianity, which sees them as merely neutral features of a lawful scientific universe. This is one of the aforementioned inversions of the ordinary meaning of a Christian (actually Jewish) teaching. When I attempt to synthesize the Orthodox and Gnostic views on this, what comes into view for me is the notion of a G-d whose love is so profound, that G-d literally divested Himself of all knowledge and power of the one true Source, issuing forth in a universe veiled in ignorance and suffering, in order to make genuine choice, love, and awakening possible. "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." (2 Corinthians 5:21)
So that's where my brain waves have been lately. For more detailed discussions of gnostic views than I could possibly provide here, check out http://www.gnosis.org.
Hi fred,
I just began reading a book on Gnosticism by Hoeller. The first chapter was very enlightening. I look forward to hearing more of your take on this subject.
Godspeed,
Jerryb
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The biggest challenge I have in my area, is finding some other like-minded ,spiritual people to meet with on a regular basis who would enjoy sharing our spiritual journeys with each other.
Godspeed my friends,
Jerryb
This is why I think the internet is SUCH a blessing. Without it I might have no spiritual outlet but my husband's conservative church. With the internet I can get another point of view on subjects, and also talk to people who are more closely aligned with my beliefs.
It's nice to be a part of the majority now and then.
Greenparty
You are right about the internet being a 'blessing'. The dictionary defines a blessing as"a thing that induces happiness". And I can honestly say that it has
been an inducenent to my happiness to be able to share my spiritual path,and at the same time,become aquainted with the spiritual paths of others on this board.
I truly believe that this formatt allows us to really "listen"....because we can pause and contemplate the posts of others,and because we have that time...perhaps gain a spiritual perspective we would never have in the 'rush' of normal conversation.
Blessings,
Jerryb
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The biggest challenge I have in my area, is finding some other like-minded ,spiritual people to meet with on a regular basis who would enjoy sharing our spiritual journeys with each other.
Godspeed my friends,
Jerryb
This is why I think the internet is SUCH a blessing. Without it I might have no spiritual outlet but my husband's conservative church. With the internet I can get another point of view on subjects, and also talk to people who are more closely aligned with my beliefs.
It's nice to be a part of the majority now and then.
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I would like to see a liberal church that is so attractive, conservatives would give up their megachurches to be liberal. God knows if that will ever happen. It won't happen soon barring some spiritual event that would make my jaw drop.
Liberalism is about freedom. Conservatism is about conformity. That's one problem for liberal religion becoming popular. Liberals are free to be liberals in many ways. They can be utterly rational. They can be utterly mystical. They can be close to traditional. They can reinvent the wheel. It's hard to find a lot of liberals who are liberal in the same way.
I do think that it is up to liberals to examine their own faith rather than say something like, "If only those conservatives would see the truth." We play with the cards we are dealt. We each come to the God of our understanding from that and go from there.
Why would someone whose own faith works well for them feel threatened by conservatives?
David....I totally agree with you.
A liberal church that is so attractive that conservatives would give up their mega churches is my dream for this decade.
The biggest challenge I have in my area, is finding some other like-minded ,spiritual people to meet with on a regular basis who would enjoy sharing our spiritual journeys with each other.
If there are any such fellow travelers on this board,I would love to make your aquaintance,and perhaps arrange to meet occaisionally to share our spiritual paths.
Godspeed my friends,
Jerryb
Progressive Christology
in General Discussion
Posted
Hi Fred,
I am living proof of your statement" The tension is where all the fun stuff happens". I am truly having "The time of my life" spiritually,and it's good...it's very good.
I was brought up in such an extremely fundemental church, that it seemed their motto was,"If it's fun....it's wrong".
But...they were wrong...God is fun too,isn't "she"?
Blessings,
Jerryb