jerryb
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Posts posted by jerryb
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Hi jerryb!
When you say that "there may have been no witnesses to the ressurection", what do you mean by 'the resurrection'?
What do you think happened?
Well Demas...you asked,so here goes. I think Jesus was executed by the Roman goverment for sedition....the mode of death was by crucifixion.....He was buried in an UNMARKED common grave( as was the Roman custom),and His bones gradualy returned to dust like everyone else. I believe that He was forgotten by most if not all of His twelve disciples...who the bible says "returned to their former occupations. HOWEVER....I am much more impressed by how He lived than by how He died. And I do believe that millions of people ,including me, have experienced SPIRITUAL RESSURECTION by following His example.
Blessings to you my friend,
Jerry
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Ah, OK. So, if I understand you, you believe that Jesus didn't come back to life, bodily or spiritually and is (still) dead and the apostles didn't have what some commentators call the "Easter Experience" but rather they (or the people who came after them and wrote the gospels) inserted the resurrection into the story of Jesus' life to fit the pre-existing notions of what a hero/leader should be.
I'm guessing that you would reject most of Paul's letters and John's gospel as being a distortion of Jesus' message and would look to a reconstructed Q and the Gospel of Thomas as being closest to the actual teachings of Jesus?
Hi Demas,
I believe that Jesus died as an enemy of the state. If that is true, then he was probably buried in an unmarked "common" grave with other "trouble-makers" of the Roman Empire.
And if you believe the gospel record, it says that "They all forsook Him and fled".
So it is sadly possible that JESUS DIED ALONE! And there may have been no witnesses to the ressurection. A different take I realize,but....is it possible that is how it happened?
Blessings,
Jerry
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I am at the point of asking myself this question: "What can I salvage from my fundamental religious background that is even worth keeping"?
I find myself avoiding some christians I meet now, because it reminds me of the old pain I felt so often in those early years of my faith.
Yancey asks,:Have you ever lived in the midst of fifteen million southern Baptist?"
I answer....Been there....done that!
Anybody else here having trouble with the salvage process?
A work in progress,
Jerry
Most definately, Jerry!
One of the things that fundamentalism ingrained into my psyche was the notion that if ANY of it falls, then ALL of it falls. In other words, if I rejected fundamentalism, it was *exactly* the same as rejecting God, the Bible, faith, Jesus Christ, heaven, etc.
Fundamentalism says that we have no right to look at our belief system critically and to accept (or reject) only the parts that makes sense to us. It insists that the baby must be thrown out with the bathwater.
It is so successful at this lie, that most of the stuff you find on the internet (or in literature) that has to do with leaving fundamentalism entails that you leave Christianity altogether. And many have. Maybe that is a good thing.
In my own experience, I walked away from Christianity when I left fundamentalism. I threw out all of my Bibles and Christian music. I felt I could no longer be a Christian if I wasn't a fundamentalist.
It took a while but I am not searching through my soul and my life for what can be salvaged. I am not so sure that I am looking for the "truth" (as it seems to be very subjective) but I am looking for what is meaningful, what is transforming.
And I'm learning that it is beneficial (and probably necessary) to be critical of what I hear and read that claims to speak for God. This turn in my path requires discernment like nothing else I've ever known. It also requires letting go of the anger and bitterness, but that is itself a process. But it is also leading me into a freedom that I never thought possible. I don't have to be right. And I don't have to convince others that they are wrong. And I certainly am not going to give the welfare or salvaging of my soul to *anyone* else except myself and God.
wayfarer
Good post Wayfarer,
I really relate to what you said..("It's leading me into a freedom that I never thought possible") I too have found such a freedom. Just tonight as my wife and I were having dinner, I suddenly felt compelled to say," It's so wondeful to not be afraid of God anymore". Having been in a fundamental church for over twenty years....I now cherish this wonderful freedom of grace. Thanks for reminding me.
Blessings to you,
Jerry
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I'm sure some of you have heard about the recent study of heart patients, and the effect of prayer on their healing. The study concluded that prayer had no significant effect on the patients, and some of the patients who knew they were being prayed for actually got worse.
Although I am a liberal Christian, I take issue with the use of the scientific method in this type of phenomena(spiritual healing and protection).
A couple of years ago ,I was involved in a automobile accident. A man driving behind me had a seizure and rammed into the back of my car at a high rate of speed. I spun out and hit a rail , and my car was totaled. However, I walked away without so much as a scratch . My Christian friends ,both Liberal and Conservative concluded that I was protected by the hand of God. The problem with trying to "proove" that that was true( by the scientific method), would mean that I would have to get back in my car, and get hit , over, and over , and over again. If every time I escaped without a scratch ,that would proove that God would protect me in a traffic accident.
This seems to come close to Satan's temptation of Jesus(" jump off this high tower and see if God's angels will save you" ) We shouldn't put God to the test. We should respect natural law,and be grateful for anomalies when they happen.
I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on this subject.
MOW
Greetings Mow,
I believe I have to agree with October on this one. Maybe the best thing to do when miracles happen,(and I believe they do) is to continue to thank God...even if we can't prove God intervened. I think that as we watch our minds
approach our souls,we will stop putting labels on everything that happens to us, and just be grateful for the good times. Chopra says" the more we get to Know God,we will finally realize that when we pray....we are really praying to ourselves"
I know that is a bit hard to accept, but lately when I pray,I ask God to help ME
answer my own prayer if possible. And you know what...sometimes it is possible.
Blessings to you my friend,
Jerry
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I like your idea of attention and awareness. If we learn to witness and watch out minds evolve, hopefully we realize we are not what we are watching, but the witness.
Hi Soma,
I like your idea of becoming,(and recognizing) that we ARE the witness. I think that if we could truly learn to be the witness....it would revolutinize our spiritual life.
Depak Chopra says,"The soul is comfortable with uncertainty". I'm really working on that one, because I believe that the biggest hindrance to becoming the witness, is our need to always KNOW all the answers.
Blessings to you,
Jerry
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I would love to see someone like Jim Wallis with his own weekly TV show. I know there is a radio show in the works, but it's in the very beginning stages.
Anyone know of any rational Christian voices in TV/Radio?
Thanks.
Wayne Dyer is certainly not an orthodox or official Christian but his appearances on PBS from time to time are quite inspiring. His latest is called INSPIRATIONS. It's a book, too and a DVD available only through PBS stations for now (I think).
Any Dyer books or tapes are worth purchasing or borrowing IMO.
Hi Mystic,
Wayne Dyer has absolutely helped revolutionize my spiritual life. I have most of his books and tapes, and just saw the last few minutes of his PBS appearance last night....it was awesome,especially the part with his 90 year old mother.
Blessings to you,
Jerry B
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I think that organized or institutionalized religion is obsessed with controlling who gets in and who stays out. It often sets up standards by which control is administered and those standards vary from church to church and religion to religion.
For the Galatians, who got in was determined by whether one was circumcised or not. The modern churches all have their own criteria by which they judge who is fit to enter the kingdom -- gender, sexual preference, education, talent, power, etc.
I think that our churches would do better as signposts rather than as doors. It's better to point to the kingdom rather than to set ourselves up as bouncers at the door.
My 2c.
wayfarer
Good Point Beloved,
I like the term'bouncers at the door'. And that is exactly what some churches are.
I wish we could see the 'spiritual arrogance' in that,especaially when Jesus said,
"I am the door"!
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"So the Lord God drove Adam and Eve out of the Garden....and placed a flaming sword to guard the entrance." Gen.3:24 Contempory Translation.
(The Message Version)...."So God 'threw them out' of the Garden,and stationed angel-cherubim and a revolving sword of fire....guarding the path to the Tree of Life".
All of we former fundlementalist cut our teeth on this terrible scene in scripture.
And ever since the first humans were 'thrown out by God'...we've been trying to find our way back to Paradise.
But....IS THE ORGANIZED CHURCH THE FLAMING SWORD that has kept us out?
What do you think?
Blessings to all,
Jerry
But ... can't any human institution be the sword which keeps us out?
Mystic,
Good point. It's possible that a human institution can keep us out....but probably not with as much'authority' as the organized church.
Peace,
Jerry
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Good question......................
Our original consciousness is pure consciousness, but it is covered with so much waste we can’t see it. Christ with the not easy to find love for everything reopens the gate that was closed, when Adam left the Garden of Eden with the experimental knowledge of good and evil. Adam ate from a tree that divided the mind with moral evil and, which God said not to eat. Jesus tells us in simple language, “He who loves me (Christ consciousness) will be loved by my Father,” which can be summed up in the commandment, “Love your brother as yourself.” Our knowledge and perception are both limited, so how can we understand a pure consciousness that is unlimited? We have to purify our minds so we can become aware of Christ consciousness and to do this, we must love God and one another. Love and unity will set us free and show us the way, not moral condemnation so if a church teaches condemnation and not love it could be the bearer of the sword.
Good post Soma,
I really have come to believe that, the feeling of separation from God is responsible for so much of the pain caused by the organized church. And I also believe that many times the church 'uses' our since of alienation to bring us 'into the fold' so that the chuch can show us the way back to God.
I cringe everytime a fundamentalist says," Let me tell you the TRUTH"
Strange how they seem to be the only ones that have that TRUTH...all tied up in a neat little package.
Sorry...guess I'm ranting a bit...but I've BEEN THERE! DONE THAT! And got the tee shirt!
Blessings to you,
Jerry
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But this year there don't seem to be many of the old gang around to kibitz with anymore. Hmmmmmm. Someone trying to tell us something ?
I am a bit burned out and am finding I don't feel I have much to contribute right now. I still read the board everyday though.
AR Miss You !!! Get unburned and come back when you're ready, not before.
Dr. flow....
AR...I second Flow's post. We do miss you,but I also understand that 'burned-out feeling. Take care.
Blessings to you my friend,
Jerry
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"So the Lord God drove Adam and Eve out of the Garden....and placed a flaming sword to guard the entrance." Gen.3:24 Contempory Translation.
(The Message Version)...."So God 'threw them out' of the Garden,and stationed angel-cherubim and a revolving sword of fire....guarding the path to the Tree of Life".
All of we former fundlementalist cut our teeth on this terrible scene in scripture.
And ever since the first humans were 'thrown out by God'...we've been trying to find our way back to Paradise.
But....IS THE ORGANIZED CHURCH THE FLAMING SWORD that has kept us out?
What do you think?
Blessings to all,
Jerry
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I am part of a Yahoo! interfaith dialogue group and here's what I just posted there:
Progressive Christianity ( see http://www.tcpc.org/ ) offers a way to be a faithful Christian in a sacramental and metaphorical way. Progressive Christianity offers an approach to God which is consistent with the perennial philosophy of mysticism which is the core, the heart, the foundation of all wisdom traditions.
Jesus-olatry is the heresy which claims that Jesus is the only human who reveals God completely. This is a false belief because it means that every other human being is somehow different than Jesus of Nazareth. I can't subscribe to that because I accept Paul's beautiful teaching that Jesus is "the first born fruits of the new humanity". He is the "new Adam". We all are able to become the new Adam through participation in this new humanity. Divinity is a quality of human experience which mystics comprehend and try to explain. It is impossible to explain because our human limits prevent us from understanding this beautiful truth. The trinity is the teaching that all humanity participates in divinity. Jesus revealed this wonderful truth to us and so we give him a very special place in the trinitarian framework. God became human. Human became God. The mystics know this and teach this because it is the truth. It is wonderful. It is fantastic. It is Good News indeed. I wish my fellow Christians could understand this truth without idolizing Jesus. Jesus doesn't want to be an idol.
Bible-olatry is the heresy which claims that the Bible is dictated word for word by God and is totally free of error. I love the Bible but I also know imperfection and incompleteness when I see it. I see all sacred scripture as an advance in our human wisdom but not the final or complete word. Ultimately our authority for knowing God and knowing God's will is simply our experience, both individual and collective. No one individual can see the whole truth. No one community can see the whole truth. No one has a monopoly on truth.
I am glad to be a progressive Christian totally open to the wisdom and insights I receive from the other wisdom traditions and from a variety of new movements of the Spirit.
Great post Mystic,
Another scripture came to mind as I read what you said about us all being divine.
IJohn 4:17..."We are all Christs in this world"....wouldn't it be great if we could all just BELIEVE that!
Blessings'
Jerry
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JB
Silence, persistence, consistency, openness, reading the ideas of others, and deep-emotionally-connected thought and reflection. Practice these and it will all come to you my friend.
peace to you...flow....
Hi Flow...as always,you are an encourager. Thank you. I'm really working on the 'silence' part of your equation. I recently began reading 'Peace is every step' by Thich Nhat Hanh and He is helping me stop and breathe,and wait....amazing how that helps.
Blessings Friend,
Jerry
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" The worst moment for the atheist is when he is really thankful,and has no one to thank". G.K. Chesterton
In His book Soul Survivor, Philip Yancey writes.."Why am I still a Christian? What keeps me pursuing a gospel that has come to me amid so much distortion and static...that often sounds more like bad news than good"?
I am at the point of asking myself this question: "What can I salvage from my fundamental religious background that is even worth keeping"?
I find myself avoiding some christians I meet now, because it reminds me of the old pain I felt so often in those early years of my faith.
Yancey asks,:Have you ever lived in the midst of fifteen million southern Baptist?"
I answer....Been there....done that!
Anybody else here having trouble with the salvage process?
A work in progress,
Jerry
It's a journey we are on. I have often found myself so enamored with Buddhist insights that I have thought about leaving Christianity behind. But the Bible really has a hold on me! And the progressive Christians I know and love in mainline congregations all over the planet are a network of love and compassion I can count on. I give Alan Watts the credit for letting me know that Christian myth and ritual is a good representation of the perennial philosophy or Mysticism which is the core, the heart, the foundation of all wisdom.
Moses met God at the Burning Bush. Jesus met God in the wilderness. Buddha met God at the Bo Tree. Mohammad met God at a little shack or something like that where he communicated directly with God. You can and do. I can and do.
Borg in THE HEART OF CHRISTIANITY argues that the born again metaphor is too important to give away. Indeed "emerging Paradigm" or Progressive Christians have a great way to be born again or born from above, the way of the journey of humility and openeness. Christianity offers so much wisdom as do other wisdom traditions. Here in the USA there is every reason to stay connected to any congregation where the "emerging paradigm" is either accepted or embraced and there are many.
Mystic......Thanks for reminding me of the 'progressive network of love'....I too believe it is there...maybe not always as sharply defind as I wish...but still there.
Thanks for your encouragement
Blessings,
Jerry
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What's left after fundamentalism???? Gosh - all the good stuff. For many people, fundamentalism is all about rules and figuring out how to make yourself acceptable to God when you fundamentally are not.... PUNT.
What are you left with? GRACE, God's unconditional love and desire for you, freedom to find Him every/anywhere. The freedom to learn about other paths/religions - not necessarily to change paths, but to learn about God from a different angle.
You get to move from a selfish idea of salvation - it's all about whether I'm in the book to a salvation that comes through you to change the world by touching everyone you touch. You lose the need to force others into your viewpoint so that they don't go to Hell. You can just show God's love, no strings attached.
For many people, leaving a fundamentalist background, it is hard to stay in christianity at first. Many explore other paths and then return to christianity. God is everywhere; so's Jesus.
Learning more about Him will probably strengthen your faith. I'd try Thich Nhat Hanh, the Dalai Lama, Phillip Yancey, Brian McLaren (His first 3 books are loosely fictional about a conservative pastor who becomes more progressive and how he deals with that with his church, friends, family, etc. A Generous Orthodoxy gives you a new framework).It's early, hope I'm not babbling too much, but your question really struck me. The good stuff is left. Really. Godspeed Jerry - I really enjoy our conversations here.
Thanks Cynthia.....guess I sounded a bit hopeless in this post. But I really am not hopeless....just hoping that I can be more realistic in my new faith.'
You are right though....all the 'good stuff' is left....and I intend,by God's help, to find it.
Blessings to you,
Jerry
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" The worst moment for the atheist is when he is really thankful,and has no one to thank". G.K. Chesterton
In His book Soul Survivor, Philip Yancey writes.."Why am I still a Christian? What keeps me pursuing a gospel that has come to me amid so much distortion and static...that often sounds more like bad news than good"?
I am at the point of asking myself this question: "What can I salvage from my fundamental religious background that is even worth keeping"?
I find myself avoiding some christians I meet now, because it reminds me of the old pain I felt so often in those early years of my faith.
Yancey asks,:Have you ever lived in the midst of fifteen million southern Baptist?"
I answer....Been there....done that!
Anybody else here having trouble with the salvage process?
A work in progress,
Jerry
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You are doing a great service because these people are not happy, and the cause is simply lost hope, confidence and the power of the ego to dominate their mind. It doesn't help that they are manipulated by ignorant ministers. We are not able to enjoy the feelings that come straight from the heart without tolerance and spiritual consciousness because it helps us to let go of the ego, to be ourselves and to live in the present moment. The young, the old, the sick and the weak can progress, if they constantly practice living in the present and not in the past or future. This takes tolerance, and an open mind to be successful. Success follows those that have tolerance and recognition of the circumstances surrounding them, not distracted looking too far back or forward. Manipulation of the mind has people looking back at negativity or forward to a narrow view of heaven. God is in the present guiding us away from the manipulators.
Hi Soma,
I believe when you said.."God is in the present,guiding us away from the manipulators", that you were right on target.
I've been in church services where the minieter would make a statement, and then LOUDLY say to the audience,"SAY IT!" If that isn't manipulation, I don't know what is.
I think one of the strongest enticements for fundlamentalism is the fact that people don't have to think for themselves. Their leaders do their thinking for them,and that's just fine with people who don't want to do the hard work of spiritual growth.
And you are so right about 'living in the moment'. It is our only hope for true progress in today's religious climate.
Blessings my friend,
Jerry
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Hi flow,
I'm intrigued by your term"Planned obsolescence" Could you expand a little more on how you think that happened?
I always look forward to your take on things.
Blessings to you my friend,
Jerry
It's kind of like the wrestling smackdowns on TV I think. Just when social justice and caring about the plight of those less fortunate than the mainstream begins to gain some steam and traction as it did during the lives of FDR, JFK, MLK, Princess Diana, yes, even Pres. Bill and other secular leading lights of the type, the movements get smacked down by wars, assassinations, questionable accidents, scandalous escapades... you get the picture. It's not so much a political thing as much as it is about which white guy wins the argument
Unless I'm very mistaken the timing of such interventions out of the darkness seems not to be so accidental. What we are seeing are negative reactions to the goodness preached by Jesus and exemplified in the life that we have been told that he led; and, yet when others seem to gain a modicum of making parts of His promise come true in today's realities, there are the smackdowns.
It seems to have happened a little bit too often in my memory for it all to be accdental. What I believe it is is evil in action; for, those who try to emulate Jesus' works in the real world of today seem always to be unfairly punished just for trying to make the world of the common people a little more bearable. I believe also that America's spiralling descent into mainly materialistic policies that began just after the Civil War has contributed to the acceleration of this now increasingly noticeable cyclical phenomenon.
This is a very ancient thing and is probably the modern and post modern version of what the ancients spoke of as the war between the sons of light and the sons of darkness which is a central theme of the Dead Sea Scrolls. Of course today both sexes are involved in these secular battles, so I substitute "children" for "sons" when I refer to the phenomenon now. But there is absolutely nothing that we can do about the cycle because it is a built-in feature of human societies IMO.
G-d as the author of history planned it this way so that the dynamic interplay of the very beginnings could move humanity forward through time based upon the living, reproducing, working, and dying of us. We remember and act accordingly in loving and non-violent ways, for that is how we have been taught to survive for our progenys' sake.
Planned ? Yes.
Obsolescence ? Others have recently commented here that Christainity is becoming increasingly outmoded in its traditional forms and needs some sort of transformation. Maybe . But when our older vehicles become obsolete, there are new models to fill the need. Inventing new ways of belief certainly is not like buying a new model car. I believe that this website is a place where aspects of the new might be unwrapped little by little. Let us all continue doing just that.
flow....
Flow....
I like what you said about'aspects of the new belief being unwrapped little by little'. I guess I'm like a kid at Christmas....can't wait to see what's inside those beautiful wrapped packages. But I do believe you're right about that gradual unwrapping,at least that's how it's been in my experience of God.
And by the way...I believe some of those'beautifully wrapped packages', are posting on this board every day. You are one of them...so keep showing us the way.
Blessings to you,
Jerry
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Hi flow,
I'm intrigued by your term"Planned obsolescence" Could you expand a little more on how you think that happened?
I always look forward to your take on things.
Blessings to you my friend,
Jerry
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I read this really good editorial on Yahoo! News.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20060213/...nA2BHNlYwM3NDI-
Hi October,
I read the editorial,and it really shook me to the core. I think the one line that got my attention was the one that said,"In America, Jesus has been KIDNAPPED by preachers and politicians".
I must sadly admit that is true. But my next question is..."why are we standing by and letting that happen"?
I am about ready to borrow someone's quote,"We're mad as hell...and we're not going to take it anymore" Wish I could remember who said that.
Keep us thinking October!
Blessings To You Friend,
Jerry
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Can progressive people of faith rooted in the Christian and Jewish traditions (progressive Christians, progressive Jews) join together with progressive people of other faith traditions to create a new kind of faith community which creates a new era of global peace, justice and sustainable abundance?
Of course we can! And here’s how: By working with our Creator and each other to create the New Church (or the New Synagogue) for the New Age which is actively participating in the creation of “new heavens and a new earth." (Isaiah 65:17).
I’m rooted in Christian tradition so I am comfortable with the term “church.” You may want to substititute “synagogue” or “mosque” or ‘temple” or “ashram” or something else from your tradition. I will fall back on my tradition and stick with the term I know best, church.
The New Church for the New Age is:
non-hierarchical, free, open, loving, caring, compassionate, healing, energizing,inclusive, humble, non-judgmental, fun, creative, yours, mine.
I am convinced that Jesus never meant
for the church to be a closed, hierarchical, authoritarian,
nationalistic and denomination-alistic institution.
I believe we are in the early stages of a GREAT EVOLUTIONARY LEAP FORWARD (the GELF). This is a huge transformation in consciousness, a massive paradigm shift. People rooted in traditional faith orientations are not immune from the big changes happening on our planet. Indeed many people of faith are at the very vanguard of these momentous changes. I’m glad about that. While some are resisting these changes, others are welcoming them and even making them happen. I identify myself with those who welcome the GELF and are gladly contributing to its success. How about you?
Unfortunately, many Christians are resisting the GELF. But many others are eager to participate. Rather than identifying myself as a Christian, I choose to call myself a person rooted in the Christian faith tradition now seeking new ways to be faithful. The term Christian has, unfortunately, become associated with a lot of negative baggage. Christianity as we have known it may not be able to recover. This is not a bad thing if a new faith associated with the GELF can incorporate many of the best ideas of the Christian tradition along with many of the best ideas of other faith traditions. I don’t think this new kind of faith has a name yet. Maybe it is so radically different that it never will have a name! After all, the most holy is mysterious and unknowable and unnameable. Is that a word?!
I will fall back on the simple term of “progressive Christian” from time to time but I want you to know what I mean by that term. The Center for Progressive Christianity -- http://www.tcpc.org/ -- has developed a list of 8 points -- https://www.tcpc.org/about/the_8_points.html -- describing the beliefs and values of progressive Christians. Marcus Borg has recently offered a comprehensive picture of the “emerging paradigm” of progressive Christianity in THE HEART OF CHRISTIANITY.
I will fall back on some other traditional Christian terms since I am so familiar with them and they still make sense to me and a lot of people. For example, I continue to love the idea of church and, more than that, I am quite committed to participating in church life and have been all my life. But I am just as willing to use terms and ideas from other faith traditions and from new movements of the spirit such as the New Age Movement, the Green movement, Rock’n”Roll music, World Music and many more.
The foundational philosophy I am using is called the perennial philosophy or mysticism. One of the most descriptive studies of the perennial philosophy is THE PERENNIAL PHILOSOPHY by Aldous Huxley. Alan Watts described how the Christian tradition fits in to the perennial philosophy in MYTH AND RITUAL IN CHRISTIANITY.
My approach is to report on and to encourage the “new thing” God is doing now. I like the metaphor of an amazing journey. I am committed to promoting this amazing journey of faith and adventure and exploration and discovery. We are pilgrims together. We are explorers and pioneers working with God and each other in a creative process which will make sure that our planet not only survives but thrives. We are joining together with pilgrims of all ages and places who have been working on this mission since humanity began and will until humanity ends. We are all pilgrims on this journey. People of faith are the people who have become aware that we are pilgrims and are eager to get on with the pilgrimage and, in the process, save the planet.
What’s required? Enthusiasm, which means simply “God within us.”
As we explore and create together, I am going to point out a variety of ways where God is working with us to make all things new, to create the new, most holy, fantastic, glorious realm of abundance, joy, wisdom, beauty, love, truth, peace, justice and freedom. This is what heaven is. Our planet is a holy part of heaven. “I am creating new heavens and a new earth.” (Isaiah 65:17) “See I am making all things new.” (Revelation 21:5) “I am about to do a new thing … “ (Isaiah 43:18) This amazing journey journey, therefore, begins and ends in heaven. We never leave heaven. We can’t. It only seems like we can. That’s an illusion.
All aboard! Bon Voyage!
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Mystictrek,
I'm with you on this...especially the part where you said" Christianity as we know it may not be able to recover". I am reasonablly sure that statement is true.
Ever since I read Bishop Spong's book"Why christianity must change or die",
I have been asking myself the question,'Is christianity willing to change THAT much'? and I'm afraid the answer is a resounding No!
Have you read the book? If so, I'd be interested in your take on it.
Joining you on this voyage'
Jerry
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Hal-le-lu-jah.....(Music!) Hal-le-lu-jah...(More music) Hal-le-lu-jah! (much more music). I'm with you flow in great anticipation.
Jerry
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I would third Cynthia's awesome, but when the children look around them they see a whole lotta time-driven materialism, programmed behaviors, and lotsa, lotsa illusions of love.
How is the difference between the love that descends down to those of us who are able to perceive it and receive it from G-d and pass it on, and that which attacks them in the false images that they absorb each day, to be discerned by them other than by example? In the midst of news programs about domestic disturbances that turn into violent acts and real-life adults around them treating each other with deceit and disrespect, how are they to learn ?
Sorry to be the pessimist here. I guess older age automatically engenders cynicism. It seems that the younger generations and the older generations that are responsible for making a loving future happen are under attack on all sides by the forces of darkness. Any ideas about how we got here from the innocent old days I can remember? But then, I was younger then and was much more innocent. Maybe it's always been that way, innocence in youth and cynicism with age, and we just don't realize the truth of it all until we reach a certain age and level of experience.
And, just where did the two bears come out of ? The woods ? A cave ? And just what the devil were they doing before they came out to attack the children? Eating hallucinogenic berries and smoked salmon ? I believe, MOW, that the story Marcion focussed upon is fraught with unresolvable dependencies and contingencies, and THAT inevitably led to his downfall..
flow....
Well Flow...it seems that they might have been"smoking' the berries and salmon.
....Sorry....coludn't resist that one.
Blessings,
Jerry
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1. God is.
2. God is love.
3. God is infinite love.
4. God is infinite forgiving love.
Awesome.
I second your awesome,
Jerry
The Message Of The Cross?
in General Discussion
Posted
Hi October
I love your quote "It is Jesus life that matters".
That is my feeling EXACTLY!
Why can't we see that it is OUR life that matters also...not our politics...our dogma..or our "spiritual pedigree".
Max Lucado writes about some hungry people coming to a bakery to buy bread.But the baker says to them..."before I give you the bread,,,let me show you our bakery...WE ARE SO PROUD OF OUR BAKERY".
So he shows them the new oven,explaining all the latest tecnology,and they answer,"but WE JUST WANT BREAD". But he continues to show them several more pieces of machinery,again they say, "we just want bread". Finally, as he is showing them the last feature of the bakery, he notices that they are starting to leave,and says to them, "wait,don't you want some bread?" They answer,"NO, WE
HAVE LOST OUR APPETITE."
So it realy is our life ALONE that matters!
Blessings my friend,
Jerry