Deborah

Hello Ian! It takes real courage to come out with your story, especially when coming out earned you abuse at home! So thank you for sharing it, you are a strong young person! By the sounds of it you have not had an easy ride and have not found a safe place within Christian circles either, I am sorry to hear that! How is it going with that? Have you found a safe place (in the physical world) since your last post? Growing up in an atheistic environment, how did you come by Christianity? What attracts you to it? I know Jesus would sit down with you and enjoy your company! As would I! May I ask, would you prefer being referred to as a male or a female? (Will help me in future posts .) May the peace of God that transcends all understanding guard your heart and mind in Christ Jesus! Bless you! Deborah

Thank you BillM! Certainly looking forward to everybody's input and gentle challenges! Feeling welcome already! And hi Paul, yes, it's a small world for sure! Was searching like crazy for fellow seekers in the Mandurah/Bunbury area, hoping to find an emerging congregation of some kind, but was not able to find anything. Do you have any suggestions? My husband, 2 children and I will be coming back to Australia in June/July next year and I'm already probing the waters. A church that is comfortable with questions would be a good start... Do you still fellowship somewhere? And yes, I am glad I have found this site and hope I that can discover some sense of community here seeing as finding suitable churches is quite difficult... Thanks again for your welcome, looking forward to interesting conversation...

Hello Spiritseeker! Nice to see another Aussie here . I grew up in Australia and will be returning next year, definitely looking forward to that! Enjoy the sun for me while I sit out this Winter! And may I say that I am totally down your alley when it comes to Universalism, so you are not alone. I've also felt lonely in my views (which are also ever changing) which brought me here. I resonate with your desire to interact with others of similar, if not completely the same, views. For me it was also my heart/spirit/intuition that refused to let me discard Jesus. My theology regarding Him and the nature of atonement is all up in the air, but there is something about Jesus that I can't shake, some very deep part of me seems to love Him...and that is more valuable to me than all discussion and community combined. So if I have to be lonely in that, then so be it. But I am not alone in my quest, at least not online. How much fun would it be to sit down and discuss these things over a glass of wine and platter of good cheese, face to face! But, for now this will have to do ! When reading this conversation thread, there are a few thoughts that I have that represent what I think I believe right now...these will probably change/expand etc as life progresses... First, on the nature and heart of God. I believe that if Jesus was the exact representation of God, then I have reason to believe that God was never against us, but always for us. If Jesus did not shy away from our mess, but met us there, then why wouldn't God have the same heart towards our brokenness? Darkness is as light to Him ("It" for the progressers amongst us still getting used to that!). So in that line of thought, my theology is starting to shift away from an angry God that Jesus had to save us from (as though God were schizophrenic), to a mercyful God who's heart broke when we broke and became flesh to show us that God is with us in our pain and does not condemn us for it, quite the opposite...Jesus went all the way, to the grave and beyond, the deepest misery, reached to the darkest parts of the universe to show us that nothing can stop Him/Her from pursuing us and bringing us home, where we belong. So in so many words I agree with you that Jesus came to save us from ourselves and our brokenness. He did not come to judge the world, but to save it from its misery (John 3:17 paraphrased) Brad Jersak has a nice way of putting it on the following video: So whatever the theology around Jesus is, for me it has to be something along those lines...bet that in reality God will top even that!? The other thought I had was regarding hell. What is hell exactly? Our broken state? Our misery? Our pain? And all the consequences thereof? Then yes, I believe in hell and I see it all around me and in my own life...and Jesus met me there and has the keys (what do you think He intends to do with those? Lock us up for failing miserably or set us free in grace and forgiveness?) And how about in the after-life? If the above God is real and revealed in Christ, then for me everything He/She does needs to fit within a loving/restorative/healing paradigm...so also hell... whatever that may be. Is truth painful? I would say in some cases yes. And yet it promises to set us free. So what about hell? What if Jesus' gehenna was something along these lines?: What if hell is the painful encounter with Truth, that in metaphorical terms burns away all of the ignorance that has been shielding us from experiencing the pain of reality? What if all of this happened within an unconditional, non-judgemental Presence ("God is a consuming fire")? What if hell is the equivalent to experiencing the pain we have inflicted on others? For example...We are reminded of each moment and the history leading up to it (from our own and the other person's point of view) and then not only feel our own pain of the moment, but also the pain of the other person involved. Wouldn't that instantaneously cure us of all malice and anger and bitterness and immediately foster understanding and empathy and forgiveness? And as such we will have experienced a fair measure of inevitable pain (truth hurts) while at the same time being reconciled to our enemy within a moment of time. What if that's all hell is? Then I'd still rather avoid it...follow Christ into the ministry of reconciliation here and now, love others as I love myself now, empathise now, give people the benefit of the doubt now while I only see dimly...and thereby avoid that kind of Gehenna in the first place, not just for myself, but for the other person also. I could live with that kind of hell and it would fit comfortably with a loving God as well as with a just God, would it not? I like Gerry Beauchemin's thought: "Here is a God who does not destroy His enemies by annihilating or eternally tormenting them. He destroys them by making them His friends!" Gerry Beauchemin in Hope beyond Hell. (Great book by the way!) I hope I haven't rambled too much...seeing I have no-one to talk to about these issues I feel like I'm bursting at the seams What are your thoughts when you read the above?

Hello Fatherman, It was interesting to read your list, especially because I found myself agreeing with most of it (while still having many questions) and also identify with the square peg syndrome . I can see why some of the things on your list will have caused you to feel like a square peg in a conservative church...I grew up with their theology and can predict their responses (even having questions will make you "square"). But I don't quite understand how you would feel like a square peg in a progressive church (I am new to progressive Christianity)...? From the reading I have done on the emerging church so far I was kind of getting the idea that a progressive church would welcome everybody's unique experiences and ideas as valid, without judging something as too this or too that, but instead simply letting it be there and including it in the ongoing discussion. But it seems your experience differs from my initial impression? Is my first impression of a progessive church perhaps a little naive? They talk about being inclusive and accepting, but perhaps seeing they are still human, they cannot help but label others (starting with evangelicals) as "too much of x,y and z"? Anyways, as you can see I am trying to figure out whether a progressive church is the way to go, seeing that, like you, I am a square peg in a traditional/evangelical church. I was hoping to be able to find something where similar views to yours would be welcomed and that I wouldn't be labelled with a "too" for my own thoughts. Am I expecting too much? I guess if you are right, then I am also still too "Christian" for the progressives? Do I maybe just have to accept that labels are part of human nature and therefore inescapable? Adapt a sort of *@#*-it attitude and follow Christ as authentically as I know how? Seems a little lonely to me... What are your thoughts on that?

Hello Southernwonder, I so know how you feel! I used to lie awake at night distressed at what was happening to me and my faith. So apart from all the theological searching, which can cause some of the confusion, this book talks about the process itself. It normalizes what you're going through, encourages you on your personal journey and seeks to help you move forward. It was exactly what I needed at the time, perhaps it might do the same for you: Faith Shift by Kathy Escobar. And when it came to the theological aspect, this book spoke to my heart more than anything I have read so far: Hope beyond Hell by Gerard Beauchemin All the best, you'll be ok!

Hello! As a way of introduction let me share a little of my story. My parents raised me within evangelical/conservative Christianity. I was born in Germany and moved around a lot (within Europe), seeing my father was a missionary. At the age of 8 (1990) we settled in Australia (Mandurah WA, hello PaulS ;-)). Here we discovered the charasmatic stream and were members of the AOG for 6 years. Those years were formative especially for my personal spiritual journey. During those years I experienced the Divine in ways that sound rediculous when I recount them, they felt very real to me and still do. But is was also here that I was instilled with fundamental theology, us/them mentality and a certain sense of fear that was guised as wisdom. When my parents divorced and my mother re-married to a C3 pastor, we moved away from the AOG movement and joined C3 (Christian City Church headed up by Phil and Christine Pringle in Sydney). Initially those were good years as well and if it weren't for personal issues I may never have questioned their system and culture. But a faith shift crept up on me and I went with it (kicking and screaming mind you). It happened to be C3 that got the burnt of my faith shift. Now I realise it's not so much C3 that I was criticising, but religious systems on a whole and the fundamentalist convictions that come with them. As a result I left C3 and have been roaming ever since. I visit a church regularly but have not commited anywhere. Mainly because I am looking for something specific that just isn't around a lot. An emergent church would be great! But seeing that is hard to find, here I am, looking for an online equivalent. It gets pretty lonely when there are not many others willing to engage in conversation and spiritual quests. And I'm so full of questions and theories that I'm bursting at the seams! When I read some of your stories and the welcoming responses I was moved to tears, it seems loneliness is a very real and strong emotion...a feeling that is new to me but resonates with those of you who have a similar background. I look forward to meeting anyone who is interested and look forward to building relationships as far as possible via this media. Warm greetings, Deborah