spiritseeker

Hi everyone! I would love to study the Bible with progressive Christians who are open minded, have doubts and happy to question things. Does anyone know of any online groups that may do this? Thanks, Brad

Hi everyone! My friend Alexander Lang (Reverend and Author) wrote the message and article below and I encourage you all to have a read if you are interested. It is very progressive and thought provoking. If you enjoy the article I invite you to join our facebook group "Restorative Faith Discussion Group" where you can chat with Alex directly and other like minded people! https://www.facebook.com/groups/5084125134997888 Here is Alex's message! "Hello everyone! As we barrel towards Christmas Eve, I would like to provide you with some food for thought concerning Jesus' birth. For those of you who have not read my book, you will find this blog post encapsulates my approach to the Christian faith. This article examines the scriptural evidence for the Virgin Birth and the implications of this story for our faith. Once you read it, feel free to comment below to provide your perspective." https://www.restorativefaith.org/post/a-new-take-on-virgin-birth?fbclid=IwAR0S7Zf0fS0JtOhBHehMucbp5u3Vt7QlYL7t5OVk_-MguuuhOXdi0v7YHus

Restorative Faith Discussion Group is a place where we can chat all things Restorative Faith Discussion Group is a positive, non judgmental and loving environment. Alex Lang is the author of the book "Restorative Faith: Christianity for the 21st Century Rationalist" and he is happily available to discuss the book and anything related to Restorative Faith. Here is a description of the book: "Christianity is in a downward spiral. Americans are abandoning the church in record numbers. In the 21st century, science and technology are the primary drivers of the modern worldview. As a result, Christianity is rapidly losing credibility. And why shouldn’t it be? In a world where logic and reason reign supreme, the church often promotes the exact opposite: The earth was created in six days; Noah filled a boat with every animal on the planet; and Jesus was born of a virgin. Admitting that these and many other of aspects of the Christian faith are simply non-starters to outsiders, Alexander Lang takes the reader on a journey to rediscover Christianity. Written for those who find Christianity inaccessible, illogical and plainly irrelevant, Restorative Faith confronts the landmines that often shatter faith. By breaking down Christianity into its most basic parts, Lang casts a new vision for the Christian faith. Restorative Faith is designed to push an evolution in thinking and spiritual consciousness such that humans are prepared to take responsibility for each other’s well-being and the collective future of life on our planet." If you are interested in joining us please use the link below. https://www.facebook.com/groups/5084125134997888

Thanks Paul. I would be happy to buy the study guide but I wanted to wait and see if it would be updated to the 2020 version.

Hi Joseph, Is there a study guide for the updated 8 points 2020 version? Thanks, Brad

Hi guys, I have not been on here for along time but would love it if you could join my new blog located at www.utbministries.wordpress.com It is only early days but would appreciate the support. Thanks. Brad

Thanks for sharing that with me Bill! It is great to talk to someone else who understands that we are all on different journeys and that we all take in things differently. I just long for a place to call my spiritual home and unfortunately there isnt much out there for Universalism in that regard. It is lonely but I have to be true to myself and continue on my individual path to truth regardless of how lonely it is.

I thought this may have been the case as you use the same picture but I wasn't sure. What do you think of Unified Deism? Great question!!! You have really got me thinking here and I think I use the word saved because I am so use to saying saved from hell to fundamentalist Christians. When I say hell in this sense I mean the fire and brimstone eternal punishment hell. Please bear with me as I have alot of thoughts running through my mind so this may not flow as well as I would like but I will just speak from the heart. I believe Jesus is part of the trinity and is God. Through the story of Adam and Eve (not literally) humanity has fallen big time. In some cults humans sacrificed other humans because they thout it appeased God. This is not the life that God had planned out for us. Through Gods love Jesus lived as a human and demonstrated the love, generosity, passion, trust and peace that could be our lives here if we followed the same ethics and morals. Jesus saved us from ourselves essentially. He is now at the right hand side of the father with the human experience. We have the connection through a human that leads into the divine! I also believe that we all have an afterlife and can be in heaven with God. I also believe that eventually everyone ends up there but it has to be in their own time. If Jesus didn't come then yes I believe we would all still have an afterlife an eventually be saved but through Jesus and his human existence we have a connection that we can follow. We can in a sense feel what Jesus went through, we can experience the highs and lows of what life has to offer. A year ago if you had told me that this is the path I would have been on I would have laughed and said how ridiculous that is but here I am. This is hard to write because putting it all out there I feel like I will be judged (not saying I will be here but I think through fundamental Christianity I still have that feeling). I am glad to share all of this but as Bill has said previously I have no intention to try and convert or de-convert anybody. This is merely where my path has taken me and I am enjoying the ride! LOL very good! I have struggled with trying to balance the head and the heart for many years but in a way I have decided to take my own leap of faith and follow my intuition.

I completely understand Bill and I love how we can discuss our thoughts with each other. I don't take your responses as arguments as people have to make u their minds on what is right for them. At the moment Universalism is sitting comfortably with me but I know from experience that with further reading, learning and discovery then that could possibly change. It is fantastic that we can discuss our "internal arguments" in a open and respectful way! Again your comments are spot on and the problem with the bible is that in alot of cases you can argue for and argue against many different issues! That is why I basically pick and choose what I feel is right as well. I know that my beliefs could be wrong but I just don't think I could read something and blindly believe it. It has to resonate deep down spiritually for me to go with it. I am open and realistic enough to know that our "feelings" may not be the truth at all but it is a gauge to keeping me sane in this lifetime and all we can do is be true to ourselves! The talks we are having now Bill is te kind of fellowship that I really crave. I wish there was a group near where I live where I could do this but unfortunately there isn't. I have to admit that I am very new to the bible so I cannot answer with too much experience but as I mentioned above with the bible you can argue and interpret in many different ways (as people do). I take the view on Matthew 28 that it is impossible to do because of all the ways we can take different paths plus we dont know what to take literally and what are just stories. That is where we have to be true to ourselves and go with what works for us individually. I don't believe in hell, hating parents, picking up snakes or drinking poison either but I feel I could under the label of progressive christian if I wanted. If I had to use a label I would go with the title of this thread which is "Progressive Universalist" due to the fact that I have always believed that everyone is saved (eventually)and I dont believe in an eternal hell. To me the word progressive enables me to keep an open mind and change my thoughts as I go on my journey if deep down I feel that is the right thing to do. I 100% agree Bill and I love how you have written this. Your ramblings are the fellowship that I have been searching for Bill!

Hi Bill and thanks for sharing your thoughts with me. I really do appreciate it. When I study and learn about different religions I always keep an open mind and I go with what feels right to me. I am not talking about an unrealistic view or a dream fairy tale, but I am talking about the really deep down spiritual feelings I get that just resonate a resounding no or a resounding yes to the various religions I have studied. The meaning of Jesus's death/life to me is a connection or a bridge if you like where we humans have been brought into the circle of the trinity. We now have Jesus at the right hand side of the Father who has lived and experienced as a human. We now have the opportunity of a wonderful afterlife and through learning about Jesus and his teachings now we can even experience the best life has to offer here on Earth. I do not believe that people burn in hell until they confess Jesus as Lord. Universalism isn't all about hell redeeming people - it's about all people being saved. I would love to share with you a piece of writing from C.S.Lewis. Dwarves in Narnia This is the same point that C.S. Lewis made toward the end of his famous work The Chronicles of Narnia. It really must be read to be fully appreciated of course, but the one paragraph summary is that Lucy finds herself in a discussion with Aslan the Lion (God) standing together in Narnia (Heaven). Lucy is observing two things that simply dont make sense to her. Firstly, she sees the tremendous beauty that surrounds her in Narnia. Beautiful flowers, magnificent food and wine, and the finest of everything. Secondly, she sees a group of dwarves who are cursing their existence in this place. They complain of the lowly conditions that surround them and of the slop that they are forced to eat and drink. The dwarves simply do not see what Lucy sees. The dwarves are in Narnia, and they are surrounded by the finest of everything, but they cannot see it! The dwarves are in the most magnificent place imaginable, but they do not believe that it is good, they think it is bad, and so they do not wish to be there. The problem is not where the dwarves are, the problem is how the dwarves see where they are. It is not reality, but their perception of reality, that causes the distress of the dwarves. Lucy is in Heaven, and the dwarves are in hell, yet they are in the same place. This is the context in which we must understand repentance and faith. The dwarves are saved but they do not know it. Because they do not know it, they do not experience their salvation. And what is the use of it, if you dont experience it? Despite being saved, the dwarves experience hell and not Heaven. Repentance and faith, and anything else we include as a pre-cursor to salvation, actually occur after salvation, not before. These things are all the result of being saved, and not the mechanism of getting saved. These are just some of my thoughts! I would also like to thank you Bill, Tariki and Soma for talking through this with me because there are no communities like this where I live and it is very lonely when your beliefs are outside the mainstream.

Hi Bill! Thanks for the warm welcome. Initially your question bothered me but after reading Baxter Krugers books (his website is at www.perichoresis.org) I believe that Jesus was part of the plan to reconcile and invite humans into the circle of the trinity right from the beginning. I also have a theologian friend who I have asked similar questions to and I will post some of his comments to me. The below was my questions. What I want to know is that when Adam broke the rules God was angry and kicked Adam out of the perfect world and said that now humans will turn back to dust like they were created and that they will experience pain (like child bearing). Obviously this is just my inexperienced attempt at shortening parts of Genesis. That doesnt sound very loving! I would love to hear your thoughts on this as this is my next stumbling block. Why would a God who is ALL loving plan for us to fail and be disobedient and then feel his wrath? The below was his answers. Yes, good question! Well, for a start, I am not convinced that God planned for us to fail, in the sense that it had to happen. I am sure He knew it would happen, but that is not the same is Him making it happen. OK, next. I am also not convinced that Adam and Eve are literal people - the Garden of Eden story may just be that - a story. That means we need to ask different questions, primarily "What is this story trying to tell me?" I would suggest simply that the story tells us about what happens to us when we turn from God - it leads us to a bad place. Relationship with God = good; Turning away from God = bad. Viewed this way we don't need to question why God threw his loved creatures out of paradise, because He actually didn't. There is truth in the story, but the story isn't truth. See? Obviously these are not definitive answers Bill but I just wanted to share where my thoughts are and how I am getting there.

Thanks Soma! I really feel that the time was right to comeback and learn here. What are your thoughts on Universalism?

Thanks Tariki! I have been studying Universalism for a while now so I have come across many different pages. I really feel that I am on my true path now. I have not come here to try and make others like me but to merely try and find fellowship with similar people. I really thrive for fellowship with like minded people and I hope I can find it here.

Hi everyone! It has been along time since I have posted and I think it is well overdue. As most of you know I have been very passionate about the Church of Natures God and now Unified Deism. I have enjoyed the fellowship their but I feel I need to find a group that is alot more open about Christianity. For the last few months I have had unshakable feelings about Jesus. I had decided that these feelings need to be examined further as they were nagging away at me unanswered. A while ago I bought a few books which related to Progressive Christianity. In a nutshell Progressive Christianity is very open minded and some people believe in Jesus as God and then there is the other end of the spectrum where people believe that Jesus was a great teacher who lived and modelled a life of great values and ethics. After reading further and then doing some reflective reasoning (yes I listened to your show Dave ) I decided that I need to search more as I didn't know what to believe about Jesus in my head but my heart was leaning to Jesus being more than just a teacher. I decided to go back to more core beliefs which are 1) That there is a creator and 2) There is an afterlife After some more searching I came across Universalism. Universalism is the belief that Jesus died on the cross to reconciled us with God and that everyone is saved. Now there is alot more to it than that but I don't want to get too detailed here. I have done some intense studying and reflective reasoning over this time and I have made some discoveries that I wouldnt have believed in my wildest dreams a year ago. I call my beliefs Progressive Universalism because I am always open to change in my beliefs and as I learn and experience on my journey things may lead me down a different path. I know believe: * Jesus is God * The Trinity * The Doctrine of hell is incorrect and is not eternal. I look forward to hearing from you all and I would love to hear your thoughts on Universalism/Inclusion/Universal Reconciliation!