BrotherRog

Agreed, it looks a lot like Existentialism - with a smattering of secular Humanism thrown in. As for me, I choose the Christian Way (albeit a progressive approach to it).

from a www.google.com search for "universism" Universist Movement | Universism | Future of Religion is Faithless ... Universism seems to have put a succinct label on my beliefs. ... Universism is a personal religious philosophy or worldview which unites all freethinkers, ... universist.org/ - 22k - Cached - Similar pages Frequently Asked Questions about Universism - Universist FAQ Universism seeks to "cope with and redirect the religious impulse rather ... What does Universism mean when it says there is no universal religious truth? ... universist.org/faq.htm - 101k - Cached - Similar pages [ More results from universist.org ] Universism: A progressive natural philosophy Universism does not answer these questions. Universism elevates these questions and proclaims that the search itself is paramount to our existence. ... www.religioustolerance.org/universism.htm - 23k - Cached - Similar pages Universist Movement | Universism | Future of Religion is Faithless ... Universism seems to have put a succinct label on my beliefs. ... Universism will likely appeal to a large percentage of those UUs who seek more rationalism ... www.universism.org/ - 22k - Cached - Similar pages Gimme that New-Time Religion || kuro5hin.org "But Universism is about realizing that faith's great power is also its great ... What I like about Universism is that it's a very democratic institution. ... www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/7/25/155628/061 - 125k - Cached - Similar pages Society: Religion: Universism - Open Site Universism is a modern rational religious philosophy that began in 2003 with ... Universism argues that religious philosophy should not be defined in terms ... open-site.org/Society/Religion/Universism/ - 8k - Cached - Similar pages Deism and other Free Thought Philosophies Why Bring Free-Thinkers Together in a United Movement Like Universism? ... These different philosophies are brought together in Universism: A united ... www.deism.org/freethought.htm - 10k - Cached - Similar pages Universism's new leader aims to go nationwide An upstart religion called Universism, founded in Birmingham by a UAB medical student, ... UAB medical student Ford Vox started Universism in 2003, ... www.al.com/religion/birminghamnews/ index.ssf?/base/news/1126257470185571.xml&coll=2

See also the following pre-existing thread on this forum: A Christian View of Evil http://tcpc.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17 My Webpage

Post # 8 continued (page 1 of this thread) I suppose I should also mention that I am also a United Methodist pastor. : )

I recently had someone ask me "Since the U.S. the most Christian nation in the world, why would God have sent Hurricane Katrina to us?" My responses were as follows: ================================ I disagree with two of your premises: 1) Though the U.S. may have a high percentage of people who claim to be Christian believers as well as Sunday church-goers, this is hardly the same thing as following Jesus' radical way of the Cross. 2) Even if we were all goody-goody perfect Christians, the Bible reminds us that God is "no respector of persons" and that God causes rain and sunshine to fall upon the righteous and unrighteous alike. Being a Christian is not an innoculation against becoming a victim to the nastiness of this world. Indeed, Jesus taught us that when we start following Him, its likely that we'll face even more difficulties than before. Moreover, IMO, God did not "send" that hurricane to us. Indeed, hurricanes and the like are not "acts of God" (despite what many insurance policies might say) - at least they're not any more so than are calm and pleasant sunny days. It's just Creation doing its thing. God created Creation in such a way that the laws of physics must operate. As a South African proverb puts it, "When a butterfly flaps its wings in Africa, it impacts the winds in Asia." The fact is that our earth is still in formation. Tectonic plates still shift, fault lines still quake, and volcanoes still erupt to release pressures. Likewise, when cold air masses meet up with low pressure masses and warm air masses, passing over warm watters, storms often arise. And God is not in the business of micro-managing weather patterns. When it comes to natural disasters, they're just that, NATURAL ones. Moreover, it is not God's fault that people live along fault lines or in locales that are prone to hurricanes, tornadoes, wildfires, or flooding, etc. However, this Katrina disaster was both a massive natural one as well as a collosal human one. There were many human factors that greatly magnified the tragedy; e.g. - that certain people allowed developers to put up houses and shopping malls on the vital wetlands that had served as a natural buffer to flooding; - that certain people cut the funding for FEMA; - that certain people cut the funding needed to complete the levees; - that certain people failed to respond in a timely manner to the urgent requests of local government officials in those regions; - that certain local leaders failed to do all that they could to try to evacuate as many of their citizens asap; - that certain people abused their free will by choosing to remain when they could have left; - that certain people abused their free will by engaging in raping, looting, and various acts of violence; etc. If someone gets violently raped, it is in NO way their fault; it is also in no way God acting to "punish them" or to "test" them; or to "strengthen" them. Yes, God may strengthen them and find a way to put that horrible experience to positive use in that person's future (perhaps to help others, etc.) - after-the-fact, but this is very different from God intending to inflict harm upon them. It's more a matter of transformation and resurrection; i.e. when life hands us lemons, God makes lemonade. Rather, God is found in the best of how we respond to each other in times of tragedy. God is found in the doctors and volunteers who bravely enter dangerous waters and flooded attics. God is found in people who donate their wealth so that others might have enough. God is found in the arms of a cop holding a dying infant as she takes her last breath. God is very much actively at work in our lives, but God does so via persuasion not via coersion. God was actively at work seeking to help nudge the leaders of those locales and of our nation to get off their butts and fulfill their duties to the best of their abilities; seeking to get the rest of us to do the same; as well as to try to sway the people of N.O. to head to higher ground. However, as free agents, we humans are free to either follow or resist God's will, sadly many of the folks just mentioned opted to go it their own way.

Openness theology is actually Process Theology "lite"; i.e. where Openness theology posits that God chooses not to intervene in miraculous ways in worldly affairs, Process theology asserts that God cannot intervene in such ways. The implications: 1. Openess theology (a phenom in more open-minded evangelical circles) maintains stronger connection to traditional Christian orthodoxy (even though many conservative evangelicals have come close to deeming it a heresy). 2. Process theology more satisfactorally handles the problem of theodicy (why God allows bad things to happen to good people). This is because if God is considered as being all good, all loving, all powerful, all knowing, and all present, and yet even still chooses to allow bad things to happen, this places greater moral blame on God for natural disasters, etc; whereas with Process theology, God is considred all good, all loving, very powerful, all present, and mostly knowing (i.e. of that which it is possible for God to know); then, if a tornado strikes a human community (or if humans launch missles at one another) one cannot logically blame God for it. FYI, Key names in Openness theology are Gred Boyd and Clark Pinnock

Another progressive congregation in Denver to consider is Cameron UMC near Washington Park.

1. Amway for Jesus! 2. I think it was the old Breck shampoo commercials in the 1970s that had the repeated phrase: "And she told two friends, and she told two friends...." : )

Also, if you ever venture into Summit County (ski country), you'd do well to check out Lord of the Mountains ELCA (Lutheran Church) in Dillon, CO near Silverthorne. They are a very progressive congregation.

Green Mountain United Methodist Church in Lakewood, CO (just west of Denver) is an official TCPC congregation. Also Aravada UMC (in Arvada) is very progressive; as are St. Andrew's UMC in Highlands Ranch, Father Dyer UMC in Breckenridge, Mountainview UMC in Boulder, 1st UMC in Boulder, and St. Paul's UMC in Denver.

This all makes a great deal of sense. BTW, I understand that the leadership of the Mormon Church (Latter Day Saints) and their related splinter groups have some similar genetic problems due to inbreeding; esp. mental health matters (manic depression, etc.).

Actually, IMO, the Wood Song, cited in post 18, correlates very nicely with the following words from the www.tcpc.org homepage: Do you find more grace in the search for meaning than in absolute certainty, in the questions rather than in the answers? == Perhaps the TCPC webmasters could get the permission of the Indigo Girls to play that song of theirs when people open the homepage? I have a contact with them if you'd like to pursue this. Let me know.

Imagine - John Lennon Imagine there's no Heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say that I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world You may say that I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one http://www.lyrics007.com/John%20Lennon%20L...e%20Lyrics.html

Joan Osbourne If God Was One of Us Lyrics If God had a name, what would it be And would you call it to his face If you were faced with him in all his glory What would you ask if you had just one question And yeah yeah God is great yeah yeah God is good yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah What if God was one of us Just a slob like one of us Just a stranger on the bus Trying to make his way home If God had a face what would it look like And would you want to see If seeing meant that you would have to believe In things like heaven and in jesus and the saints and all the prophets And yeah yeah god is great yeah yeah god is good yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah What if God was one of us Just a slob like one of us Just a stranger on the bus Trying to make his way home He's trying to make his way home Back up to heaven all alone Nobody calling on the phone Except for the pope maybe in rome And yeah yeah God is great yeah yeah God is good yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah What if god was one of us Just a slob like one of us Just a stranger on the bus Trying to make his way home Just trying to make his way home Like a holy rolling stone Back up to heaven all alone Just trying to make his way home Nobody calling on the phone Except for the pope maybe in rome http://www.lyricsondemand.com/onehitwonder...ofuslyrics.html

By The Indigo Girls: (BTW, one of them, Amy, is the daughter of a United Methodist pastor and professor, Don Sailes) The Wood song The thin horizon of a plan is almost clear, my friends and I have had a tough time bruising our brains hard up against change; all the old dogs and the magician Now I see we're in the boat in two-by-twos, only the heart that we have for a tool we could use and the very close quarters are hard to get used to; love weighs the hull down with it's weight But the wood is tired, and the wood is old, and we'll make it fine, if the weather holds. But if the weather holds, we'll have missed the point; that's where I need to go. No way construction of this tricky plan was built by other than a greater hand with a love that passes all our understanding watching closely over the journey, yeah But what it takes to cross the great divide seems more that all the courage I can muster up inside. But we get to have some answers when we reach the other side The prize is always worth the rocky ride. But the wood is tired, and the wood is old, and we'll make it fine, if the weather holds. But if the weather holds, we'll have missed the point; that's where I need to go. Sometimes I ask to sneak a closer look; skip to the final chapter of the book and then maybe steer us clear from some of the pain it took to get us where we are this far. But the question drowns in it's futility, even I have got to laugh at me. No one gets to miss the storm of what will be just holding on for the ride. But the wood is tired, and the wood is old, and we'll make it fine, if the weather holds. But if the weather holds, we'll have missed the point; that's where I need to go. http://www.lyricsdepot.com/indigo_girls/the-wood-song.html

An oldie ('70s) but a goodie: One Tin Soldier Listen children to a story that was written long ago 'Bout a kingdom on a mountain, and the valley folk below On the mountain was a treasure buried deep beneath a stone And the valley people swore they'd have it for their very own. (Chorus:) Go ahead and hate your neighbor, go ahead and cheat a friend Do it in the name of heaven, justify it in the end There won't be any trumpets blowing, come the judgment day On the bloody morning after - one tin soldier rides away. So the people of the valley sent a message up the hill Asking for the buried treasure, tons of gold for which they'd kill Came an answer from the kingdom: "With our brothers we will share All the secrets of our mountain, all the riches buried there. Chorus Now the valley cried with anger, mount your horses, draw your sword! And they killed the mountain people, so they won their just reward Now they stood beside the treasure on the mountain dark and red Turned the stone and looked beneath it - "Peace on Earth" was all it said. Chorus http://www.ocap.ca/songs/onetinso.html

Re: title of thread, ... Because George Jr. is president? ; )

re: Worms and space exploration? That's an interesting combination. "To boldy go where no hermaphrodite or nematod has gone before!" : )

Re: What all Christians have in common. Well, at our best, we're more likely to be people who forgive others and reach out to others in love. That said, we're hardly always at our best, and it is clear that we don't have a monopoly on forgiveness and loving.

Indeed, Watt was the original Mr. "Left Behind"; i.e. one who encouraged us to leave the environment behind as well as God's charge for us to be wise and faithful stewards of God's Creation. ; )

Reminds me of the adage: "Take care in how you live your life, for it may be the only Gospel that some people ever read."

Peace & Justice & Progressive theology related Movies: Romero – starring Raul Julia The City of Joy -sPatrick Swayze Entertaining Angels: The Dorothy Day Story Hotel Rwanda – Don Cheadle The Mission – Robert DeNiro/Jeremy Irons To End All Wars – Kiefer Sutherland Gandhi – Ben Kingsley Erin Brokovich – Julia Roberts The Thin Blue Line – doc. re: death penalty Chattahoochee – Gary Oldman/Dennis Hopper The Fog of War – doc. featuring Robert McNamara Bonhoeffer – Ulrich Tukur Born on the 4th of July - Tom Cruise Amistad –Morgan Freeman/Matt.McCon. Dances With Wolves – Kevin Costner Dead Man Walking – Susan Sarandon/Sean Penn Schindler’s List – Liam Neeson The Killing Fields – Sam Waterston Eyes on the Prize – PBS doc. re: civil rights mvmt. The Corporation – documentary Amandala – doc. re: ending aparthied in S. Africa The War – Kevin Costner The Control Room – doc.re:media coverage of Iraq war Silver City– Chris Cooper The Saint of Fort Washington - Matt Dillon/Danny Glover Philedelphia - Tom Hanks/Denzel Washington A River Runs Through It -Brad Pitt Road To Freedom, The Vernon Johns Story -James Earl Jones The Milagro Beanfield War -Ruben Blades Red Corner -Richard Gere To Kill a Mockingbird 12 Angry Men -Henry Fonda The Grapes of Wrath - Henry Fonda Angus - George C. Scott All's Quiet on the Western Front Spring, Summer, Winter, and Spring (a beautiful Korean Buddhist journey) The Gods Must be Crazy Luther The Nuremburg Trials

Here's a link to a pre-existing thread on this topic on the tcpc website; i.e. in the Books Section: http://tcpc.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=123

My twin sister and I were both baptized is Christians as infants via the United Methodist Church. When she was 24, she left Methodism and became active with a more conservative evangelical community. She chose to be re-baptized. This offended me as it was telling me that she didn't think that I was truly baptized. I have chosen to remain being a Christian via Methodism for a large number of reasons, one of which is our understandings of the sacrament of Baptism: 1. We understand baptism to be one of the two sacraments of the Protestant Church; i.e. means of grace that Jesus Himself experieced. 2. We do not feel that Baptism is required for salvation, as that is something which takes via faith alone. 3. We do say that if an unbaptized person has come to a point of intentionally accepting God's gift of unmerited grace in their life (i.e. salvation via Jesus as their Christ) then it is right, well, and appropriate for them to express their faith by getting baptized as a public expression of their faith - ideally - not a private baptism, but rather in a corporate context whereby a community of faith can pledge to nurture you and help you grow in your faith. 4. We do conduct infant baptisms as well as "believers" baptisms for older persons. We understand that when it comes to infant baptisms, God's prevenient grace is acting in that person's life and we pray that they will someday mature to a point of seeking to confirm for themselves what their parents vowed on their behalf as infants. 5. That said, we don't only perform infant baptisms. I have conducted several baptisms for people ages 13 and older. 6. When people in my congregation who have been baptized as infants inquire about being rebaptized, I tell them that we don't do re-baptisms but we can conduct services whereby people can reaffirm their baptisms (i.e. get wet once again) - but not understood as a re-baptism. 7. We honor the baptisms of persons who join our denomination who come to us from other Christian denominations; i.e. we don't rebaptize them. We do however baptize Mormons who join us as we view that group as something other than Christian. 8. We Methodists consider our various views and opinions about baptism as secondary/non-essentials of the faith; i.e. we don't assert that infant baptism is better than adult baptisms, and we don't assert that sprinkling is better than pouring, and/or immersion. In fact, I've baptized via sprinkling, pouring, and via immersion.

This just in.. from http://www.au.org NORTH CAROLINA PASTOR WHO ENDORSED POLITICAL CANDIDATES RESIGNS PULPIT Incident Underscores Dangers Of Immersing Houses Of Worship In Political Activity, Says Church-State Watchdog Group A North Carolina pastor who drew national attention for partisan politicking in the pulpit resigned last night. The incident, says Americans United for Separation of Church and State, illustrates the danger of mixing partisan political activity with churches. According to news accounts, Pastor Chan Chandler of the East Waynesville Baptist Church in Waynesville, N.C., resigned during a meeting Tuesday evening. Reportedly, some of Chandler's supporters left the church with him. Chandler's resignation came on the day after Americans United reported the church to the Internal Revenue Service, asserting that his endorsements of candidates from the pulpit violate the Internal Revenue Code. AU filed the complaint May 9. "The developments at this church clearly show the result of pulpit-based electioneering," said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United. "It leads to ill will among congregants and divides congregations. This incident illustrates perfectly why our houses of worship should refrain from telling people whom to vote for." Nine members of the Waynesville church say they were forced out of the congregation for defying Chandler's order to support the reelection of President George W. Bush and refrain from voting for Democrats. Chandler's actions had been controversial for some time. Some members complained that most of his sermons were political. Several newspapers and television stations reported that on Oct. 3, 2004, Chandler told his congregation, "If you vote for John Kerry, you need to repent or resign." Church members told the media that prior to the election, Chandler frequently endorsed Bush from the pulpit and attacked Kerry. AU's Lynn noted that a bill pending in Congress would lift the IRS ban on pulpit politicking and encourage actions like Chandler's. The Houses of Worship Free Speech Restoration Act (H.R. 235) is sponsored by U.S. Rep. Walter B. Jones (R-N.C.), "If we want more churches fractured along political lines, then the Jones bill is the way to go," Lynn said. "The sad controversy in North Carolina should spell the end of this misguided measure." ====================================== Clearly, more pastors and religious leaders need to be educated about what lines they should not cross - unless they're willing to give up their tax exempt status. Organizations such as the Interfaith Alliance; Americans United for the Separation of Church & State; and the ACLU do their best, but many churches (mostly conservative) won't even open mail from such groups. These organizations are "equal opportunity." They have petitioned the Government to investigate liberal congregations as well as conservative ones who they understand have crossed the line. BTW, congregations MAY invite politicians and candidates to speak at their churches, but if they do, they have to extend the same invitation to their rivals (other party's candidate, etc). See the following link for the details as to what churches can and cannot do if they wish to maintain their tax-exempt status: http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/ar...=120703,00.html