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skyseeker

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skyseeker last won the day on August 2 2014

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About skyseeker

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  • Birthday 06/02/1978

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    iampassionatehope@yahoo.com

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    theology, philosophy, poetry, photography, theater, tobacco, music (especially Klezmer), judaism, prophecy, visions, reason, faith, progress, preterism, love, german expressionism, pablo neruda, dietrich bonhoeffer, anne frank, angels, antifascism, God's omnibenevolence, positivism, art, czech beer, museums, epicur
  1. I had one good spiritual experience about 4 years ago. It was summer and I had decided to make a wandering trip through the countryside to a place (an old big railroad bridge) that I have always loved. On my way there I thought again about the theology of universalism, that in the end God saves everyone of us and that we are all very much loved by God, no matter really what we did or did not do in life, and that God would make a difference also in this world and, like spring following winter, good times would always follow the bad times again should they have befallen us. At this point I was going around a street bow and an area of trees came into sight, and the light was falling into them. It was still morning so the light was sweeter and not as brooding as around noon or as fragile as in the evening. Everything seemed fresh and I had a distinct impression of everything being flooded with wine! I had to think of Jesus much and I saw a face in my mind, that of an aged man of ancient times who was laughing at me, and when I got into my habitual doubt of non-fundamentalistic experiences, this Jesus said, no, I don't want to die again today! (I was still very caught up in fundamentalistic christianity at that point, which was giving me many issues.) The rest of the journey was very peaceful and joyous. I wandered the whole distance to the bridge, and then another distance to another town and then back with the bus from there. It was a lovely day and my sick dad greeted me at home with a big smile on his lips, happy that I had had a good day outside in the outdoors. (He was an atheist and died later that year so this partially felt like a preparation for my father's departure for me, previously I had had many worries that my dad wouldn't be allowed in Heaven because of his atheism.)
  2. Okay, this is probably a difficult matter for me to tackle, but I want to try it, if only to see how progressive christians respond to it. The issue is this, I am diagnosed with schizophrenia for about 14 years now. And for quite a length of time in it I was told by conservative christians that my medical problem has to do with demons. I cannot remember to ever have had to do with the occult, beyond listening to some gothic music when I was young, and having had some juvenile, short and, for me, rather meaningless engagement with satan when I was a youth. If I would describe it, then I have to say it's like this, sometimes in my mind I hear voices. They tell something about this or that, but usually they seem to try to change my thoughts, or maybe I can say they are like second thoughts that involuntarily contradict my own thoughts. For example, if I wanted to think, God is good, I might hear a thought in my head that says, God is shitty, or something like that. When this occurred for the first time, while i was trying to become a christian, in a conservative christian setting, I was immediately very terrified that I might become damned for such thoughts because they would constitute blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I was very unsure about what to do with this, and the following years were very hard. I had a very troubled mind, experienced hallucinations of people coming into my room and playing Jesus and chiding me. When I read the bible I heard the words repeated in an angry and raging tone which only ended when I began reading different translations like the one from german chassidic jew Martin Buber. Nowadays I have more mental sanity after a new bottom-up medicine change that my new doctor searched out for me. I am only taking as minimal dosage of neuroleptics and ironically this works much better than my previous heavy medication under which I had lot's of hallucinations and was very delusional about people frequently. But while I am emotionally better off now without the old feelings of fear, I am now anxious not to fall into the strange old conservative traps again, and following the bottom-up change of medicines I also want to renovate my beliefs from bottom-up. For example, I don't quite believe anymore that I ever had demons or that such beings actually exist, I think it is more sensible to assume that I was simply sick. Also, there are many many people on this world, the majority of us in fact, who never have issues with demons or devils while conservative christians insist that the devil is a persistent and world-encompassing problem. One solution that I found was that the devil, in a reading of the bible, is just a synonym for true evil in general. He doesn't really exist, much like evil and sin don't have a genuine existence like matter and life. But in other ways, evil does exist, and very much so, because many people suffer from evil things in the world. But, and this is another explanation that I found, much of the problem of good and evil has to do with our skewed perception about these things. Remember the story of paradise and the tree? We were allowed to eat from every tree, the tree of beauty, of humour, of wisdom, of fun, of love, of longing, of art, of science, of stories, of politics, of war even, they were all okay for us. But we were not supposed to "base our knowledge" on the good and evil dualism. Because, whenever we find something good, our minds are now bent to fear an evil that might destroy the good, or whenever we find something evil, our minds are bent to seek to destroy it or fear its destructive powers. The knowledge of good and evil does not lead us to fight the evil with the good, it leads us to be perceptively caught up in morality systems instead of being safe and sound in ethical and philosophical systems. For example, I think it is wiser to combat what we call evil by using the powers of truth and wisdom and love, instead of simply sacrificing another good thing to it. A good iteration of this is how Jesus saw love of the enemy. Normally the enemy is the evil person for us, and it is good to fight him with all your power until you have won out over him. But the wise person turns the enemy into a friend so that there would not be a lifelong struggle with all the hate, envy and revenge such struggles have inherent to them. This is the kind of thing I'm thinking of now. Demons and devils really have no place in them, except in an explanation of how we can be misled much by living in a fantasy world of good and evil where there also agents of the devil. In fact, living in a struggle of good against evil under religious terms actually invites images of demons and devils for the mentally sensitive and fragile.
  3. Beautiful topic. I find it interesting to note that while energy is not getting lost, the patterns in an energy field can change from one to another so completely that there is no identity anymore. That is where I think mysticism must latch on, the problem of identity and death. Does death free us from our identity while mystically we can retain it so to know such a change? On my desk I have a photo of my dad who died 4 years ago. Sometimes when I am close to God and open to love, it's like I can see him smile in the photo in a certain light. Yes, this life here certainly includes much suffering for many. I have been spared physical pains so far, but I know a bit about mental pain from my schizophrenia. Sometimes pain is passing, but when it stays it can be an agony to live with. It's like being bed-ridden, it's like you always dream of going outside into nature and sunlight but you just can't go into the world anymore and have to live in the dark. It can be difficult sometimes.
  4. I've thought much about this topic. It seems to me that people either buy into a Lord God (who appears more like an alpha male being than a divine majesty), or they disbelieve in a personal God. Simply believing in a good God seems hard for many although in their private life they should recognize that we all depend on a God who feels genuine goodness for all of His creations. Personally I choose to have some panentheistic beliefs in this matter, that God literally inhabits the world and that there are metaphysical constraints to His activity. That God is partially identical or perhaps I should call it related to the Cosmos and that there are also indifferent sides to Him. I don't mean cold sides, but He allows creation to go its ways without stopping it before things get nasty. I mean, perhaps God is closer to sheeps and lions than to us in some ways, and we're simply a special project that has to find a small place in the creation and not such a huge and overtowering one as we tend to presume. We should be clearer about our place in this world and how a better perception of God's impartial grace would be better for us than the inconsistent beliefs in an almighty God with many plans and purposes, a God who perhaps could be called too concerned with the world. And that these things are shrouded in mysteries that must be accessed mystically rather than only through plain reason. A God of love more than a God of perfectly meted out justice. The doomsayers and those who have harmful beliefs about God, and those who want God to create a wonderland from us, maybe all suffer from the same mistake of assuming that we are so important or that God has some grand plan for literally and truly everything. God is the spirit, the ancient word for spirit is breath, and the wind blows where it's blowing and we can't catch it. We're invited into the divine, God recognizes us, but the same counts for lions and mosquitos and tigers. Only it wouldn't be fair to them if mankind alone would get the price and rule truly everything. That would be too much of a humanization of the universe, and as our own history and our present behavior is proving far too succinctly, we are not angels and wouldn't be able to fulfill such a job. So go out more into nature and live more in tune with the Cosmos instead of worrying too much about the human race. We can and should believe in a loving God, but God's love often consists more of a sunset than of these manifold direct assistances and interventions in life that christianity believes in so strongly. There are always things that we as humans must look after, and we must learn from Jesus in this matter. God is with us like he is with the cow on the fields, but we must have these helping hands that reach out for our neighbor to pull him from misery. If a chimp were to recognize God, he would do this.
  5. Hello, I've written on this forum sometimes and now I wanted to ask where can I find a mentor or maybe a study group of progressive christianity online. I live in a remote town in east germany's ore mountains and don't get around much. This is a bit like Germany's version of the bible belt, so christianity here is rather conservative. For example, just some weeks ago a caretaker of my living community told me that my atheistic dad who died 4 years ago couldn't possibly have ended up with God, and would be separated from him now, and that if I wanted to live with God I'd have to let go of my dad. I cannot live in such a kind of christianity so I am seeking something else, and I suppose that if I lived in a city in Germany I could find it, but as I said, I'm in a remote place and can't easily move away from it in this time and so I'm seeking something online instead. Does anyone of you have an idea where I could go and get some spiritual help? I'm really wounded in the faith department from years in conservative christianity. I have schizophrenia and was told I have demons, I had transsexuality and bisexuality issues that I couldn't work through in the context of conservative christianity, would like to have a girlfriend without immediately having to marry her, would enjoy a liberal and progressive theology that nevertheless doesn't sound too esoteric and so on. I've read some books in the area, for example Bonhoeffer and Komensky, I'm high-school educated with some university, I've read a lot of other christian literature and in the past I spent much time on various internet forums. But it seems hard to find christian progressives anywhere, at least not the sort of progressives that would really and honestly disbelieve in an angry and punishing and fighting god and I was hoping you have an idea for where I could go for some brotherly help. Thank you and God bless you. Daniel
  6. I'm not sure what the problem should be with the Trinity. Jesus certainly identified Himself as the Son of God, and He was more than your average human Joe - although he often decided to appear like the average human Joe. Walked on water, raised the dead, increased the bread and fishes, etc. I just don't understand what problem one might have with concepts like the Trinity. Three persons making up one being, like twins in a way, triplets, I mean. Don't look for symmetry, look for truth, symmetry makes you numb and crazy to spiritual things.
  7. Hi Norm, please forgive me but I have an issue with this as well, that I would like to talk about addressing some of your points here. The thing is, wouldn't it be good if we had more Sabbaths, and festivals, and even some dietary "advices"? I don't mean this as in Moses' law with all the punishments and such, with the absolute strictness and all. I mean this as in, have more holidays to spend with God in nature, have more festivals to celebrate love and grace, don't eat all this consumer stuff we're given and live more frugally and enjoy more simple foods like vegetables, as opposed to all the carbs, meats and candies. Obviously God doesn't care about these things morally so that someone would find judgment or condemnation if he would eat a food I don't recommend. About James, he did speak about the law of liberty and didn't mean Moses' law. But this was new to him and in his jewish mind a deed was not some kind of ethically good action but instead a work as prescribed by the law by which he'd gain God's favor or at least avoid punishment. For most modern minds this is hard to understand, but the observant and humble jew really lived in a world where God would reward him for observing the law or punish him for breaking it. But Jesus followed a different way, He highlighted a relaxed dealing with the law based on honoring the good in it and not caring about the bad in it, declaring the son of man as lord over such laws, while God is the Lord over the son of man (see the many sabbath controversies in the Gospels). This was something James probably didn't fully grasp yet, but nonetheless I imagine him as similar to those humble and meek and kind observant jews of today, somewhat lost in this world, longing for fatherly kindness to come to them from God, and so on. There are many people like this, much like there are many people who love regulations and rules and such. This is just two types of people that need to get along, so that the free don't abuse their freedom and that the servants don't act hypocritically or as if they would take away the freedom of the free. This is not just a theological problem as there are again and again people trying to live by rules and other people who try to live by reason, or might I say different rules because eventually reason also only discovers rules, logic, sense, meaning, virtue, justice. For example, I don't consider myself a follower of Law. In fact I oppose such thinking. But in the same time I've become persuaded by my own difficult life that free love and free sex are not as good as the secular world sometimes makes it out to be. I'm getting along in years and I will never be able to sleep with all these super-beautiful girls that advertise themselves so freely on sites like hi5. I've joined other dating sites and found some connections but they required me to have money and everything to satisfy women that in fact want the cake and eat it too, lust and sex and money and kindness, etc. So I don't want to be the servant of lust anymore and rather earnestly seek a relationship and when it comes to dating, anything that moves past kissing and hugging is a nono for me. This is what I think is growing into the law of freedom, not that I would be punished by God if I had sex with someone tomorrow, but that I might sacrifice love for lust if I did so. I am free to sleep with someone and God is with me and I am inspired by Him to treat kindly and respectfully with people. But in the same time my reason tells me that I'm not safe in pursuing sex over love because then I end up a nervous wreck, unloved, abused and mistreated as I can't see through all of people's deceit. That is what I think also was clear to Paul and so while he left behind the law of Moses, he instructs us to marry and not practice fornication and lasciviousness (with fornication I mean loose sex that is not based on love, marriage back then in Paul's understanding meant two people deciding to live with each other and to provide for each other and to love each other). If I could meet someone who could show me how to mix the free love type of thing with ACTUAL love then I'd be happy to listen, but so far I don't know if this is even possible to achieve. Everything that is too loose eventually becomes a following of flesh in the form of lust diving or it becomes unloving so that actual romance isn't there anymore. That's why I think I am kind of in the middle between the two types of people I mentioned, the full-blown rules lovers and the full-blown freedom lovers. I think we might be better advised seeking reason and wisdom in such matters.
  8. "They search the scriptures daily for in them they think they have eternal life, but it is those scriptures that testify to Me." (John 5:39) That is a wonderful and very helpful line of scripture, but in this there is already hidden the problem of using Christ to double phariseeism only. We can assume that Christ came to crush the letter and to bring life, but the bible can be read such as to support a Christ who just fulfilled the bible bringing new chapters to it. I think we should see a "gone" in the christian things, that Jesus spiritually put an end to an old system and to bring a purity of life and existence as in bread and wine. Christianity's worst mistake would be to bury this purity and instead to use it to fit into the old system. This is why I'm opposed to seeing Jesus as the lamb of God. He laid down his own life, he was not sacrificed. Jesus as God's lamb is like a perversion, it puts Jesus back into the mosaic thing, back into the corrupted and ungodly horror of Abraham wanting to sacrifice Isaac. That's a real issue, friend. Jesus' death, instead, must be seen as a trick God played on Jesus' opponents, and as a means by which the bottom of religion, which is hell, is closed down. No more condemnation and wrath - Jesus took it all upon Himself. But this must be coupled with a manly Jesus who Himself decided to go to that Cross, together with His Father God and with the Holy Spirit. He was not put on that Cross by God. That would be a wrong point of view perverting the idea of love and freedom.
  9. Since somet time I'm trying to read the bible without applying the concept of biblical inerrancy. But I must admit I'm getting a bit lost. I have no education on how to read the bible like this and I don't have reference points for myself. Some things I came up with where these points: - When Jesus and his disciples argue against the law of Moses, they don't consider this law to really originate from God. It was merely a jewish tradition on how someone can be justified before God. Jesus sort of obeyed the law in many ways because else nobody would have accepted him among the jews and he would not have been considered a teacher in the eyes of the public, but he was big on choosing only the good from the law (charity), and not its bad parts (stoning). If one wanted to accept the law as divine, then Jesus would have had no authority to break the sabbath, for example. But he broke it and he purposely called himself the son of man to make himself like man, to show not his divine authority but the authority of man. - Tied to this is the question of Jesus' sinlessness, his understanding of sin. If we just adopted the point of view of the law, then Jesus was not sinless as he broke the sabbath, didn't obey the high priest, didn't stone the adulterous woman and didn't seem to offer sacrifices. But when we adopt a law-free view of God and the faith, then Jesus was sinless in terms of simple goodness. His heart was on the right spot, he was kind and helpful to the needy, spoke truth to power and offered himself on the cross as a symbol of his unselfishness. When that is sinlessness, then the law has no point really and produces only a "righteousness" of judgment, not of faith and love. - The parable of the talents can be read not as something about God but as something about the situation on Earth, that Jesus was using irony really. Those who are rich on Earth always get more riches, and those who have only little, get taken away what little they have because they can only hide it in terror of the masters, and using it for themselves they may also not do, they are supposed to put it in the bank for bad times. It makes no sense in light of Jesus' sacrifice to assume that he has servants who cut to pieces those who hate him (again, the cross, father forgive them for they know not what they are doing). These are just some things I found. Biblical inerrancy can't lead to such insights and instead presumes that the bible is a manual that shows everything plainly. But this is wrong, the bible is a book like all the others, containing prophecy, law, stories, myths, regulations, chronicles, psalms, poetry, wisdom literature and others.
  10. Apostle James in his letter mentions a law of liberty. (James 1) What do you think is this law exactly? I think the bible purposely differentiates it from the law of Moses, so this isn't it, but I don't hear about a law of freedom elsewhere in the bible, at least not in my knowledge. What do you think?
  11. Do you subscribe to biblical consistency and truthfulness or do you think it has been tampered with? The way I see it, the New Testament inductions of the law's outdatedness seem to demand that the Law itself was not in the will of God ever, ie that the early Israelites must have thought wrongly about God and may have manipulated the writings to gain credence. But I'm not sure how far this applies to the prophets. But also the NT seems tampered with, take for example the parable of the servants and the talents. I am pretty sure it refers to the economic situation on the world, that only those who use their money to increase it, are rewarded by the prince of the world. But the bible makes it seem as if Jesus is the harsh Lord who hadn't sown what he is reaping, yet this is completely out of touch with the doctrine of thankfulness after which we all owe everything to God. What do you think?
  12. I dislike Calvinism as much as you. It presupposes a sovereignity of God that would be behind all the scary predestination and hellfire theologies. Also, I think their bible reliance is their main problem, if you remove the totality of their scripture interpretation then you can get free of their crap...
  13. On the weekend I had the idea of writing another Genesis account that might be more passable than the bible's Genesis. Here's what I came up with, please tell me what you think of it. It's the first chapter only, if you like it I can post the other chapters. Chapter A - The Creation of life and the days were long the heavens were lonely god was alone in a shell of god and sky and she knew, she knew she knew, and she knew and she knew what was to be known she said, I know and I have to know and I will know and that was all what was known she said, I will feel pain she said, pain is like a sun she said, I will shine she said, light is like knowing and so the darkness passed and she knew, she knew and she knew.. the light smiled she knew, light is always smiling and she smiled, because she knew she knew it well nobody noticed anything they were all asleep like the future, like the past only she knew she was there she never slept, she always knew... but the earth dreamt and she knew her dream the little daughter dreamt much she always knew, the light smiled everyday she had been born like a dream she smiled in the dream and she had known how the light came smiling at god in her shell, and at the earth she breathed out, the daughter breathed in and they breathed together, and they knew... and she knew about feelings how the light needed a daughter too or it would not smile everyday like it should so she smiled like light and stood on the earth and she was light, and that was the water the earth knew something, and took the water they all knew, and she knew best the darkness looked and hid at the bottom of the water and sat herself beyond the earth where the light played alone, to travel the spaces that god had known alone to know more... the earth knew the light was shining it fell on sands and rocks fell on water, to gather god's smile and carry it around and god, she knew a need the earth had breath and she put the water in the breath the light went away to think the sun knew not what was happening but the earth knew, because it was remembering every breath always to breathe more, with god and the water fell from the breath the earth knew, and knew and drank, and spilled her breath there were seas and rivers now and everything knew about god and how lonely she was no more but she had to blink, and the angels woke up and saw a tear on her face she whispered, I have come they knew something she had been there... and the rivers ran away, and the breath ran away and the light stood still, while the earth dreamt something until it can smile, until it can smile again and the water flew, it flew without end she blinked again and the earth shook once, twice, many times and the rocks broke and fell into the water and the breath drummed onto the water and the rocks fell on other rocks there were clouds of dust she knew something else and sent the light into the spaces beyond where other light was dwelling and searching water, and searching the breaths full of water for the wonder that only god knew the angels whispered, she had come again because light came from the spaces led by the light of the sun and the angels of the earth and of the heavens knew more they knew about stars... and they climbed down to earth, and looked in the winds they climbed down, breathing with earth and god collecting water and dust and little stones and sand and she sighed, and she knew, that is my sigh "my chest is heaving, she said, my chest is heaving and i know", and god had always known and the angels looked up and saw a little boy it had hid somewhere in a cloud and they counted the stars in the skies, the stars next to the little boy and they saw the little boy was beautiful and the angels knew something, they needed to dance and the earth breathed with them, and god breathed and when they danced, the earth broke up the angels whispered, and were afraid, and fled but some were slain by the breaking earth out of which red light broke, and red warmth and the angels cried, this is like god she is smiling more, she is smiling more and god knew, and she carried all angels to heaven... and the souls of the slain angels went with them their bodies slipping into the earth with some red light and warmth, with some dust, with some water god said to her angels, give them dreams give them dreams without measure, give them all the dreams we have and also the light smiled, because this was other water and the breath smiled, because that was other gods to breathe with and the earth smiled, because that was another child and god said, i know this is life... and the little life felt all the dreams, all the god and all the angels and all the earth and all the water in it wanted to go to the light, the first dream (and she smiled much) and all the breath in it wanted to go through all the earth, the second dream (and she smiled much) and all the darkness in it wanted to move through all space, the third dream (and she smiled a little) and the little life knew something, it had been dreaming and it woke up, and it was there... and god said, i will make it like myself and like the angels and i will give the angels of myself, and the angels never laughed so much again when they came, the other angels smaller, and kinder, and a bit red like the light and heat of the earth not willing to dance until they had known but watching the dance of the angels, because they knew something and in that laughter, the angels found whispers, and they wanted to be alone and the other angels danced, and god smiled and she breathed on them all, and the water in them smiled (because god's breath is like light, and the water in us is in every breath) and they climbed down to earth, and looked and the little boy fell over, and fell over, and fell over and the seas laughed and wept and fell anywhere the breath and the water smiled and danced the flooding dance and the other angels carried the little life and heard the song of the first angels in heaven so they dropped it everywhere and god had always known, she had known and she had known... and the little life was happy in all over the wet earth and it floated in the water, at its surface where the light smiled on it as on the water where the breaths of earth and god found it every morning...
  14. Hi there, do you believe that the OT law was really given by God? I find that it can hardly be reconciled to a God of love and mercy. I've come to the view that most of it was an invention of the jews by which they wanted to better their society and build a system by which they could stand before God. Some things must have happened in Egypt and Sinai that scared the jews, they probably had locutions and visions and other spiritual experiences that frightened them, and being somewhat harsh and tough in nature they wanted laws and customs that would guarantee a disciplined and devout society. I don't want to be make this an antisemitic post, I guess most other peoples were equally harsh in their religious doctrines in that time. To sum things up, I think that God really wrote the 10 commandments for us, they are not harsh and not trying to threaten anyone, there are no threats attached to them unlike to the commandments written down in the mosaic code of laws that was meant to supplement the 10 commandments. In effect the mosaic code is just like those rabbinical rules and regulations meant to protect the mosaic code to be broken. The rabbinical laws protect the mosaic code, and the mosaic code protects the 10 commandments. Jesus seemed to enjoy picking and choosing what from the law is good and what not. He himself saw it fit to remain under the law, but after fulfilling it and leading it ad absurdum on the cross, the code is now shown to be improper and invalid as well. Just be honest and good in life and you're fine when it comes to God's commandments. This is the view that I've come to. What do you think? Also in regards to the other history accounts in the OT... do you see them as true, valid, binding?
  15. Hello Matteo, yes, it makes much sense to believe in a big and loving God who would reconcile everyone to Himself. But this obviously depends on faith and it's not always easy to have faith. For example, I live in a group home and there are struggles here about basic things like the cream for coffee. And this is Germany, not some third world place. I would welcome God warmly if He were to come back to this world and reconcile it wholly to Himself, but sometimes it's not looking like it. Which is, I think, a motivator for people not to believe in universalism, because we never had an universalistic embrace of all mankind by God. It seems more probable that God is peeved with us, at least as long as God is like us though of course He isn't. I have had my small encounters with God where He would show me love in small ways so that I'd feel mentally refreshed or that a kindness happened to me or something like that. But this is hard to analyze logically ... did something I do warrant such kindness (lordship salvation), was it all unmerited love (free grace), was it mere chance and God was not even involved (deism) or did I conquer for myself a share of goodness (selfish atheism)? I regularly osscilate between believing all of these, and none of them. I never want to be cynical but sometimes life ain't so easy, especially in the psychological experience of it in certain times when you're not strong. That's why I still think there is some malevolent entity around that causes damage, and while God often repairs the damage with us (or sometimes without us), the damage gets done at first. It's like in world war 2, first the war and all its atrocities happened, then Hitler was defeated and we enjoyed some peace again. I never want to blame God for history, but the story of man is not always a nice story. And that is exactly why we have a need for Universalism, only it should be better equipped and have more evidence to itself, so it's not just a theology but an actual power in the world that is to be reckoned with by the "forces of evil", ha. In my country actually many private people have universalistic notions in this way or the other. Everyone takes it for granted when they speak of human rights and such, really. And even atheists often believe in some kind of principle or love or benevolent factor in the cosmos that looks kindly at them. I guess in modernity the difference between atheism and theism is that theists believe there is a person in this benevolence that we're after, while atheists treat it as something impersonal. At least as long as we're having a spiritual mindset and actually embrace things like virtue or goodness. But many people do that in their conscience, also in my group home and everywhere else. Which also shows a need for people to stand up against the evil of evil beings like the devil or other evil factors in life. At least that's how it looks like here. Greetings, Daniel
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