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  1. Yesterday
  2. Siblings with different parents perhaps? This whole thing gets very semantic very quickly, but that is another thread. I like arguments … ie the logical ones where we have premises well defined and the logic follows. Quarrels are not so hot. If you like having your terms defined, then the ignosticism thread is for you
  3. Last week
  4. Hello Romansh, Thanks for the welcome. I liked your review of Hazleton’s book. I did not agree with everything she said, however, what I liked most about her book was that it was the first time I’d read someone who presented a explanation of agnosticism that was, so-to-speak, mutually exclusive from atheism. Too often I have seen others group agnosticism and atheism together as if they are fraternal twins. Call me a purist. 😊 I will definitely have a look the agnosticism thread. Thanks for telling me about it.
  5. Hello JosephM, Thanks for the comments. I have read and appreciate the 8 points. My preference is that there are no concrete dogma or doctrine. I like Kant’s challenge to dare to know or think for yourself (Sapere aude). Unfortunately, dogma and doctrine tend to creep into more than what we traditional think of as religion; e.g. popularized social and political beliefs, whether they are on the left or right end of the spectrum. I’m looking forward to discussing different or conflicting ideas ..... as opposed to arguing about them. Thanks for the welcome. p.s. I like your quote, it reminds me of Voltaire’s famous quote “If you wish to converse with me, define your terms.”
  6. Welcome intuition I too am retired … sort of. Anyway I sort of enjoyed Hazleton's book … you can find my review of it here. To me it was not really about agnosticism … more its subtitle. And we do have a thread on agnosticism and it is sort of a hobby of mine. But I do agree it is not about some mid point but more about how we handle knowledge and understanding in general. And most importantly it is not just about god or the lack of. It is about the universe. Of course your Kant touches on this with his phenomenon and noumenon. Welcome again. rom
  7. Welcome intuition, Thanks for the introduction. Retired here also with traditional Christian upbringing. While i don't particularly like labels and fixed concepts, progressive on the front end of Christianity seems fine to me but as you will find out there is no set in concrete dogma or doctrine that comes with it. The 8 points are brief and not limiting to ones journey. That's a good place to start. Post any topic you would like to discuss in debate and dialog section as long as you are not offended by differing views. Again, welcome, Joseph
  8. Welcome to our little club!
  9. I’m retire now. I was born into a traditional conservative mainstream Christian denomination. Several clergymen in the family, including my father. I first stated to question the idea that only Christian’s go to heaven when I was a 19’ish. I remember looking at a map in a Sunday school class that identified areas of the world by when Christianity reached them; I remember thinking to myself “so before 300 AD they all went to hell?” This did not make sense to me. Since then I finished two degrees in university (math & economics), got a job, got married, had two children and have continued to attend church regularly since then; I have only discussed these questions with my wife. Over the past two decades, after the kids moved out, I began to read books. The first two books that I read in the 1990’s were The Seat of the Soul by Gary Zukav and Care of the Soul by Thomas Moore. More recently I have read books by James Tabor, Karen Armstrong, John Esposito, Lesley Hazelton, Elaine Pagels, Bart Ehrman and others. Over the past couple of years, I’ve really enjoyed reading and listening to John Dominic Crossan & Marcus Borg. My favorite philosopher is Immanuel Kant, I read his work for the first time in my university days. My favorite quote is “We do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.” This has been credited to a number of people over the centuries, including Immanuel Kant, the oldest reference being Rabbi Shemuel ben Nachmani in the 3rd century CE. https://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/03/09/as-we-are/ My pet peeve is when I hear someone describe theism, agnosticism and atheism as having a linear relationship; i.e. theism and atheism on opposite ends with agnosticism in the middle. I think these three concepts are categorically/nominally related. (note: Lesley Hazelton’s book Agnostic: A Spirited Manifesto is a very good read) Having said all that, particularly over the past several years, I am not sure where I fit on the political or spiritual spectrum. I am interested in discussing these issues in one of these forums. Any suggestions which forums I should look at?
  10. What happens when you die. A neuropsychiatrist discusses his research and observations on death transition. Speaking of death, what happened to Deadworm?
  11. The British Museum's amazing Irving Finkel, Curator of Assyriology describes how he reconstructed Noah's ark from a Babylonian tablet
  12. Earlier
  13. Well Seeker, it would appear you were seeking an opinion that reflected yours. I hope you find a place that reflects your opinion, if that is truly what you want. To me that would be an anathema
  14. Seeker, Sorry if i offended you. Your post seemed to be looking for advice on an issue that was troubling you. I was just offering mine. There is no need to take it as the official opinion or view of the forum. I thought i made that clear in my post as i was only speaking for myself with words such as ... ("in my view" / "i am of the opinion" / "for me" / "Myself"). Anyway, wishing you the best on whatever you decide. Joseph
  15. Seeker, This forum is a lot broader and has a lot more to offer than simply whether people agree with you or not on a particular fictional TV series, but if you only want agreement with your views then yes, perhaps this forum isn't for you. That said, if you are open to other opinions and genuine discussion/debate, then there is a lot to be gained from hearing other views I think. I've never watched the show myself and don't have much interest, but from what you have described it would seem the creators have deliberately modeled their show in a lazy fashion simply for popularity and publicity. Satanism isn't usually about the exact opposite to Christianity and it seems the producers have just chosen an easy road to push out a TV series easily swallowed by the general public for entertainment. Most western societies have at least a general understanding of Christianity so this show is probably easy for many to relate to which is what the producers want. And as much as you abhor the show, it seems the creators have managed to get you to watch the whole series and raise discussion about it! I am reminded of the saying "There is no such thing as bad publicity." It seems the creators have you doing exactly what they want you to do - talk about the show and get more people watching it! Perhaps it's a cultural thing (I live in Australia) but I don't see kids rushing out to practice Satanism based on the TV show. Maybe I'm giving our kids too much credit, but I tend to think that the majority of Australian kids these days see this type of show as entirely fictional and don't think there is much merit in summoning demons or gods. I'm sure there will be some that dabble, but I suspect they are by far a minority. I do note that you think it's obscene that the show portrays Satanists as another persecuted group while Christianity is portrayed as a the persecutor, but then go on to point out that Christianity states plainly "Suffer ye not a witch" and you say that even by the most liberal standard, Satanism must be considered evil....that there is no such thing as a good witch or warlock. You seem to be reinforcing the views of the show. I don't know - maybe the concerns about Satanism are a lot more dramatic in America than they are here for me. Whatever the case, I think the best way to vote against something is with your choices - i.e. don't watch the show! But that's just my opinion. Cheers Paul
  16. It was worse than mere garbage. Very well then....I don't think this is the forum for me! ----Seeker
  17. Hi Seeker, There seems to be quite a few shows that i am of the opinion are less than desirable to watch. Seems we have little control over the media except to avoid watching and hope they go away from lack of interest. Myself i watch very little TV other than the discovery channel , the history channel, and nature programs. Programs such as the one you referenced don't get my attention. Life is too short for me to watch what i might consider garbage and in my view it is best to not allow oneself to be bothered by such things that we are given little control over. Peace, Joseph
  18. I placed this comment in the wrong section (Technical Complaints) and was scolded. The question asked was "If your were offended by the program, why did you finish the series?" The program was the Chilling Adventures of Sabrina. The reason I finished it was, I admit, curiosity, but also fascinated horror. I was soon offended by it and worried that a pattern in teen and young adult entertainment had reached a new low. Is not the old proverb 'know thy enemy' not still true, and how could I make a judgment if I didn't see the whole series. For indeed, it grew progressively worse. If this website and this forum are not the place for issues troubling progressive Christians, please advise me where else I can go. I am not a close-minded bigot. I am sincerely worried about what my grandchildren and all young people are watching and how it might desensitize them to Satanism--the subject of this series. That said, here is the comment I entered in the Technical Complaints forum: I can scarcely believe that this series is considered 15+. It is even not fit for adults. To begin with I'm not a fundamentalist Christian. I am rather liberal on faith. But this time, after watching entertainment for teens (and adults) degenerate progressively, I decided to act. Here goes: I watched all the episodes of The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina in mounting disbelief. The very blood curdling nature of this series seemed controversial from the beginning. The constant stream of blasphemies against the Christian religion would have been shrugged off as just another teen horror show had it not been for the obvious pattern of parodying sacred scripture. Aside from the language itself that replaced such expressions as Heaven's sake with Hell's sake and Hail Satan instead of Hail Mary or Praise God and the effort to make Satanism seem innocent cutesy fun, there were the following parodies of of sacred events: (1) A Satanic parody of the manger scene; (2) Satanic counterpart to the three wise men; a parody of the birth of Christ symbolized by Sabrina herself; a parody of the Passion of Christ, His death, and resurrection (also portrayed by Sabrina. After these horrors, Sabrina performed miracles in imitation of Christ, including resurrection and several other amazing feats. Rising from the floor, as if to show her true form, she then became the archfiend, herself, and incinerated two angels, allegedly sent by the False God. Constantly this title is used for the Christian (and, by tradition, the Judaic faith). Angels, like God, are portrayed as evil. Among the many things wrong with this series, too numerous to list, was Lilith's (the principle) parody of Adam's rib, which in this case comes from her and is implanted in her own private zombie. There is nothing innocent or cute about this series. Satanists are portrayed as another persecuted group, while Christianity is portrayed as a the persecutor. This is obscene. Throughout the series there is no effort to hide the inherent evil in this show. Even the lame effort to show that Sabrina was merely under the spell of Lilith does not lessen Sabrina's role. Strangely enough the writer's and producers of this epoch were more accurate with Satanic mumbo jumbo than facts about Christianity. The Dark Lord claims that Christianity was born in Megiddo. In the last episode in which Sabrina seemed destined to become Queen of Hell, the fear was that the Apocalypse would open the gates of Hell. The real Doomsday Calendar that conservative Christians believe will usher in an Antichrist, False Prophet, Scarlet Woman, and End Days, is replaced by a murky, muddled Apocalypse for both witches and mortals alike, who would suffer the wrath of Satan. No mention is made of God's wrath, for, after all, in their eyes, he is the false God. In the Bible it states plainly "Suffer ye not a witch." Even by the most liberal standard, Satanism must be considered evil--hardly the material for both youngsters and adults. There is no such thing as a good witch or warlock. It is bad enough that they have desensitized young people with their programming, now they make it seem as if Satanism is just another, carefree romp for teens. If this had been a humorous satire, it would merely be blasphemous to various faiths. Now, such programming, as typified by the Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, is becoming dangerous to young minds! ---- Seeker
  19. You didn't like this, but you still watched all the episodes? There is a topic for introductions. This topic does say 'Complaints' but it's really for technical complaints not just general gripes.
  20. I can scarcely believe that this series is considered 15+. It is even not fit for adults. To begin with I'm not a fundamentalist Christian. I am rather liberal on faith. But this time, after watching entertainment for teens (and adults) degenerate progressively, I decided to act. Here goes: I watched all the episodes of The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina in mounting disbelief. The very blood curdling nature of this series seemed controversial from the beginning. The constant stream of blasphemies against the Christian religion would have been shrugged off as just another teen horror show had it not been for the obviouis pattern of parodying sacred scripture. Aside from the language itself that replaced such expressions as Heaven's sake with Hell's sake and Hail Satan instead of Hail Mary or Praise God and the effort to make Satanism seem innocent cutesy fun, there were the following parodies of of sacred events: (1) A Satanic parody of the manger scene; (2) Satanic counterpart to the three wise men; a parody of the birth of Christ symbolized by Sabrina herself; a parody of the Passion of Christ, His death, and resurrection (also portrayed by Sabrina. After these horrors, Sabrina performed miracles in imitation of Christ, including resurrection and several other amazing feats. Rising from the floor, as if to show her true form, she then became the archfiend, herself, and incinerated two angels, allegedly sent by the False God. Constantly this title is used for the Christian (and by tradition the Judaic faith). Angels, like God, are portrayed as evil. Among the many things wrong with this series, too numerous to list, was Lilith's (the principle) parody of Adam's rib, which in this case comes from her and is implanted in her own private zombie. There is nothing innocent or cute about this series. Satanists are portrayed as another persecuted group, while Christianity is portrayed as a the persecutor. This is obscene. Throughout the series there is no effort to hide the inherent evil in this show. Even the lame effort to show that Sabrina was merely under the spell of Lilith does not lessen Sabrina's role. Strangely enough the writer's and producers of this epoch were more accurate with Satanic mumbo jumbo than facts about Christianity. The Dark Lord claims that Christianity was born in Megiddo. In the last episode in which Sabrina seemed destined to become Queen of Hell, the fear was that the Apocalypse would open the gates of Hell. The real Doomsday Calendar that conservative Christians believe will usher in an Antichrist, False Prophet, Scarlet Woman, and End Days, is replaced by a murky, muddled Apocalypse for both witches and mortals alike, who would suffer the wrath of Satan. No mention is made of God's wrath, for, after all, in their eyes, he is the false God. In the Bible it states plainly "Suffer ye not a witch." Even by the most liberal standard, Satanism must be considered evil--hardly the material for both youngsters and adults. There is no such thing as a good witch or warlock. It is bad enough that they have desensitized young people with their programming, now they make it seem as if Satanism is just another, carefree romp for teens. If this had been a humorous satire, it would merely be blasphemous to various faiths. Now, such programming, as typified by the Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, is becoming dangerous to young minds! ---- Seeker
  21. (2) "Breathe:" Some in my congregation absolutely adored this simple little chorus as a means of putting them in a prayerful attitude for our time of silent prayer.
  22. I'm actually grateful for the correction. I normally look up such references before posting, but this time I trusted my memory of reading "Memories, Dreams, Reflections" back in the 1980s. But my mistake does not affect my main point. Jung predicts a repeat of the immediate loud boom from the bookcase. I want to respond to Burl's case of childhood possession. About 15 years ago, I attended my Aunt Ruth's funeral. My Uncle George was a retired Pentecostal pastor. He shared this exorcism story with me in the presence of my cousin E. who is a psychiatrist. When E. was just 3, George was summoned to perform an exorcism on a possessed lady. My Aunt Ruth waited with E in the car outside the house during the exorcism. When the demon was finally expelled, E's eyes rolled up in their sockets, so that only the whites were visible and E began screaming hysterically. Apparently the demon had left the woman inside and was infesting little E, who had no concept of what was transpiring inside the house. His parents prayed frantically during the drive home and the demon apparently left. E said that all he recalls of this episode is having a vision of being safely cradled in the arms of Jesus. It is striking to me that a psychiatrist like E considers this an authentic case of a demon seeking to control his young mind.
  23. https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/untangling-lifes-complexities/201109/jungs-explosive-visit-freud Perhaps there are perfectly normal explanations for all the other stuff Deadworm professes. Perhaps Deadworm's recollection is not what it should be? I know mine is not.
  24. Deadworm, If you will check our main site here https://progressivechristianity.org/ and search our global network of churches you will find 35 pages of them. PC is by no means dead, but perhaps you are not aware of its sharing and global outreach programs. You post a lot on this Discussion Board site which is self-sustaining from members and we allow you to share your journey and criticisms of it , perhaps you would be willing to share in its expenses so we can continue to do so.
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