Christian Atheism

[Neon Genesis]

Do they identify themselves as Christians?

 

I looked on their website and could not find this identity. In the section on beliefs, it says:

 

"Diverse beliefs about the existence of a higher power are welcome in Unitarian Universalist congregations. Unitarian Universalists may be Atheists, Humanists, Christians, Pagans, or identify with other theological and philosophical traditions."

 

George

The UUs have their origins in Christianity. They started out as two separate groups; the Unitarians and the Universalists. The Unitarians were Christians who didn't believe Jesus was God in the flesh and they believed Jesus was nothing more than human. The Universalists were Christians who didn't believe in hell and believed everyone went to heaven when they died. Somewhere along the way the two groups merged into one church but I don't know if they still identify as part of the Christian movement though they did start out as Christian, but many members of the UU church are also atheists, Wiccans, pantheists, and Buddhists. Here is a list of the UU's Seven Principles: http://www.uua.org/visitors/6798.shtml

There are seven principles which Unitarian Universalist congregations affirm and promote:

 

* The inherent worth and dignity of every person;

* Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;

* Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;

* A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;

* The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;

* The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;

* Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

 

Unitarian Universalism (UU) draws from many sources:

 

* Direct experience of that transcending mystery and wonder, affirmed in all cultures, which moves us to a renewal of the spirit and an openness to the forces which create and uphold life;

* Words and deeds of prophetic women and men which challenge us to confront powers and structures of evil with justice, compassion, and the transforming power of love;

* Wisdom from the world's religions which inspires us in our ethical and spiritual life;

* Jewish and Christian teachings which call us to respond to God's love by loving our neighbors as ourselves;

* Humanist teachings which counsel us to heed the guidance of reason and the results of science, and warn us against idolatries of the mind and spirit.

* Spiritual teachings of earth-centered traditions which celebrate the sacred circle of life and instruct us to live in harmony with the rhythms of nature.

 

These principles and sources of faith are the backbone of our religious community.

[GeorgeW]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but doesn't Christ come from Messiah come from anointed coming from being anointed by God meaning divine.

Ron

 

Yes. According to Bart Ehrman ("The New Testament"), "Messiah: From a Hebrew word that literally means 'anointed one, translated into Greek as Christos, from which derives our English word Christ."

 

Of course, in the OT, there were a number of 'messiahs' including David and Cyrus the Great. In Christianity, there is only one and I think it would be blasphemous to suggest that someone other than Jesus was a messiah. I think this theological distinction is reflected in the various translations. In the OT, where ever the Hebrew word mashiah (messiah) is written, it is translated as 'anointed,' not Messiah or Christ.

 

George

[Neon Genesis]

 

 

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but doesn't Christ come from Messiah come from anointed coming from being anointed by God meaning divine. If this follows and atheist means against God (a=against, theo=god) can a person be both an atheist and a Christian? I agree a person can be humane, not meaning Christian, and not believe in a god. However, I believe it's a stretch to assert a Christian cannot believe in a god, and particularly the Christian God.

 

Ron

Just to nitpick because I'm a nitpick about these things, atheism doesn't mean being against God. -a means without, not against. So -a theism would mean without god, not being against god. An atheist is simply someone who doesn't believe in God but it doesn't mean that they're opposed to religion. There are even some atheists who belong to religions like non-theistic forms of Buddhism. An anti-theist is someone who opposes religion but not all atheists are anti-theists and not all anti-theists are atheists.

 

As far as a professing atheist is concerned, perhaps it may be necessary to quiz him/her to determine just what concept of God he/she is disbelieving or denying. It seems to me that when one is talking about the Christian God, it is not so cut and dry as we may first think or are taught.

I suppose an atheist who really wanted to join Christianity could become a pantheist but in the eyes of most people, a symbolic god is little different than a non-existent god and most Christians consider pantheism to be just as heretical and unbiblical as atheism as the god of Jesus is clearly of the traditional theistic variety.

 

commonly defined - Do a majority of the people think you can be a Christian if you are an atheist? (An overwhelming majority say no, I'm guessing.)

But I think if we're defining what counts as a Christian by what the masses define, then progressive Christianity would have to be dismissed as heretical since most Christians are fundamentalists, though I personally don't see anything wrong with being heretical myself. It seems like almost all the beliefs that modern Christians today accept as being "essential" to Christian faith were at one time considered heretical by somebody else. Jesus was considered a heretic by his time and culture but is now considered by most Christians today to be a devout Jew and the foundation of their faith. When the apostle Paul first converted to Christianity, he was initially shunned by the church as a heretic and a threat to the church but now Paul is considered by most Christians to be just as important to the faith as Jesus and Paul's salvation by grace is considered by many Christians to be essential to their faith. Martin Luther and the Protestants were considered heretics by their church but now fundamentalist Christianity is the second most popular form of Christianity in the world next to Catholicism. In today's time and culture, the biggest battle is whether or not you can be gay and Christian. Who knows what the next battle for orthodoxy will be? We tend to take these "essential" doctrines for granted today but perhaps you have to be rejected by the masses first before your doctrines are accepted as "orthodox?"

[Vridar]

Just to nitpick because I'm a nitpick about these things, atheism doesn't mean being against God. ...

 

Hey, I love nitpicks. You are so correct. Often in the heat of posting I slip-up on specifics. However, I will not concede that a general definition of atheist now used is not used as "against God." Literally atheist does mean "no god." The most vocal self identified atheists seem to be against gods. This is a reason I don't like to identify as an atheist. I am not against a god nor do I profess there is no god. We need a new word for what the original poster is seeking. Can a Christian be an atheist? Current definition, beit, against god or no god probably requires a negative to the question. Can an atheist be humane as in one of the foils in Joseph's definition? Absolutely!! So, I concede also that according to foil 5 of Joseph's Christian definition an atheist can be a Christian. But, I'm not sure by most Christian's definition of a Christian can an atheist be a Christian. Excepting maybe present company of progressive Christians. ~smile~

 

Love these type discussions,

Ron

[GeorgeW]

Hey, I love nitpicks. You are so correct. Often in the heat of posting I slip-up on specifics. However, I will not concede that a general definition of atheist now used is not used as "against God." Literally atheist does mean "no god." The most vocal self identified atheists seem to be against gods. Ron

 

Ron,

 

I agree. Although the definition of atheist is relatively neutral, I think it does carry negative connotations. The Three Atheists (Harris, Dawkins, Hitchens), IMO, have not done the word any favors. This is not unlike the effect that those such as Falwell and Robertson have done to the perception of Christianity, or bin Laden to Islam.

 

George

[GeorgeW]

We have been discussing theists, atheists and 'anti-theists. In addition, there is another group, maybe the largest of all in the U.S. and Europe - the irreligious.

 

There are a lot of people, who, if asked in a survey if they believe in God, would likely answer in the affirmative. However, they are essentially disinterested in religion or religious matters. These are just not relevant issues in their lives.

 

George

[Neon Genesis]

Ron,

 

I agree. Although the definition of atheist is relatively neutral, I think it does carry negative connotations. The Three Atheists (Harris, Dawkins, Hitchens), IMO, have not done the word any favors. This is not unlike the effect that those such as Falwell and Robertson have done to the perception of Christianity, or bin Laden to Islam.

 

George

The word atheist has negative connotations because that's how it's been used by theists throughout the centuries. Theists throughout the centuries have used the word atheist as an insult to demonize anyone they don't like. Socrates was accused of being an atheist because he didn't blindly follow the authority of the government even though he clearly believed in the gods and was executed by the government authorities because of it. The early Christians were accused of being atheists for not worshiping the Roman gods. Early Christians accused each other of atheism all the time when they didn't conform to what the masses defined as "orthodox." It's only in modern times that skeptics have started to wear the word atheist as a badge on their shoulder but even in modern times, Christians still associate atheism with people like Madalyn Murry O'Hair because it's easier to attack a straw man of atheism than to address atheists on an individual basis. Chris Mooney and Stephen Hawking are atheists yet are world's apart from other atheists like Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris yet many theists still love to lump all atheists together because it's easier to demonize an entire group than it is to address atheists as people. I'm not saying that's what you're doing or anything. I'm just saying the word atheist has a negative connotation because theists used it as an insult for years.