Reincarnation

[Davidsun]

Most ‘Christians’ still don’t ‘see’ that the passage: “His disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias [the Greek transliteration of the name Elijah] must first come? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.” (Matthew 17:10-13) clearly indicates that Jesus personally ‘saw’ John the Baptist as having been the (prophesied) reincarnation of Elias. And, because they haven’t read and so haven’t thought about what’s been clearly stated in historical accounts pertaining to early developments in Christianity as a social movement for the same reason, said ‘Christians’ remain unaware of the fact that, like Jesus, many of early Christianity’s members (Origen being just one prominent example) also embraced the idea of reincarnation and understood it to reference a phenomenal aspect of Life’s process. So ‘Christians’ generally still continue to ignore and dismiss the implications of the fact that belief in reincarnation was only declared to be anathema by the Fifth General Council of the Church in 553 C.E. in the course of the Roman Catholic Church Hierarchy’s ongoing quest to establish itself as a centralized, “Souls have only one ‘chance’ of getting into ‘Heaven’ and that is by way of giving absolute credence to what we say the truth pertaining to Jesus and his teachings is and unquestioningly obeying our edicts in said regard during their (presumptively, then) one and only earthly life” dictatorial authority.

My own understanding deriving from what I have heard as well as read on the subject is that, analogous to the way it takes many years of ‘schooling’ wherein initially ignorant and unskilled novices are tasked with learning and given the opportunity to master increasingly complex ‘lessons’ and thereby, upon ‘passing’ greater adeptitude-demanding ‘tests’, progress through a series of ‘grade’ levels to the point where they finally ‘graduate’ from vocational training programs and schools of knowledge, it takes numerous physical lifetimes for ‘young’ souls to become masterfully adept at deploying their ‘inner’ Love and Joy ‘program’ in relation to Life and others in it in the context of the infinite psychospiritual possibility containing ‘stream’ of sometimes mind-n-spirit sparking opportunities and sometimes mind-n-spirit daunting challenges that are encountered in the course of living in a matrixially multi-layered, complexly interwoven physiosocial system such as ours.

I wonder what the views of others here are pertaining to the issue of reincarnation and ‘soul’ growth and development leading to ‘ascension’; that is, the possibility of ultimately becoming completely spiritualized (in the sense of ‘eternal life’ experiencing) beings. I don't hear 'Christians' talking about this even though this was what Jesus often talked about as a possibility (in my opinion based on his word, at least).

[Davidsun]

I posted this in response to a meme by Rev. Caleb out out Progressive Christianity's FB Feed.

"Everybody's in, Nobody's out" is an over-simplistic, feel-good fantasy, IMO. The FACT is that there are people who 'descend' into being UNloving and UNjoyful, who, unless they 'reverse' course, since LIFE _is_ an ex-press-ion of Love and Joy , ultimately 'spiral' into Spiritual Death. For those who believe in 'reincarnation', _stop_ Living (spiritually speaking), because there is _no_ 'kernel' of Love and Joy left _to_ reincarnate. Those who 'hide' this FACT from themselves, by electing to live in the above 'feel-good' fantasy are basically _avoiding_ grappling with the implications of the FACT that _some_ 'make it' to 'heaven' (spiritually speaking) and others don't. Their's is a 'Pollyanna' religion, IMO.

Anyone out there who wants to conversationally CONFRONT this issue? 😎

[tariki]

6 hours ago, Davidsun said:

I posted this in response to a meme by Rev. Caleb out out Progressive Christianity's FB Feed.

"Everybody's in, Nobody's out" is an over-simplistic, feel-good fantasy, IMO. The FACT is that there are people who 'descend' into being UNloving and UNjoyful, who, unless they 'reverse' course, since LIFE _is_ an ex-press-ion of Love and Joy , ultimately 'spiral' into Spiritual Death. For those who believe in 'reincarnation', _stop_ Living (spiritually speaking), because there is _no_ 'kernel' of Love and Joy left _to_ reincarnate. Those who 'hide' this FACT from themselves, by electing to live in the above 'feel-good' fantasy are basically _avoiding_ grappling with the implications of the FACT that _some_ 'make it' to 'heaven' (spiritually speaking) and others don't. Their's is a 'Pollyanna' religion, IMO.

Anyone out there who wants to conversationally CONFRONT this issue? 😎

Well, not with you. Sorry. The upshot/implication of your opinion is simply that salvation is of "works" and not the work (!) of God (aka Yahweh, Allah, Old Nobodaddy etc etc etc, or as I would say, Reality-as-is) So get on with your works, good luck, hope you make it to the higher spheres where you can bask in peace and love forever, untroubled by those who never made it. 

David Bentley Hart, in his "That All Shall Be Saved" is, for me, fairly definitive on this subject. All WILL make it. That is the will of God as pronounced in Scripture. The eventual restoration of ALL THINGS "in Christ". As taught by many of the Early Church Fathers.

"And all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well"

All the best to you. You are free to reply in your own rather boring and over complex manner, but I'll give it a miss. And you are of course again free to once again express your opinion of me.

Bye

 

 

[Davidsun]

6 hours ago, tariki said:

Bye, Tariki. I recognize that many think. feel and believe that 'all' will be 'saved' and I appreciate your taking the trouble to state your disagreement with my thesis.

In relation to this world in which 'all things must pass', the 'spark that started 'Christianity', Jesus hiimself, said: "yada, yada ... All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall … many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure [by keeping on keeping on being loving in relation to Life’s Flow and others in it!, IMO] unto the end, the same shall be saved.” (Matthew 24:6-13); the implication here IMO clearly also being that those who don’t ‘endure’ (so) won’t be ‘saved’ in this regard. ‘[Saved’, as used here, meaning psychospiritually sustained and retained as soulful components of Life’s Flow despite the complete reshuffling of all of the physiosocial ‘cards’ in Life’s worldly ‘deck’ taking place as a historically ‘old’ Way of Life ‘dies’.]

I am just going with what Jesus said, not what the folks you are going with think

I am truly 'sorry' that you find my way of expressing myself 'boring', etc, That alone precludes us from being friends.
 

 

 

 

[Davidsun]

Yogananda on soul development;

"Don't depend on death to liberate you from your imperfections. You are exactly the same after death as you were before. Nothing changes; you only give up the body. If you are a thief or a liar or a cheater before death, you don't become an angel merely by dying. If such were possible, then let us all go and jump in the ocean now and become angels at once! Whatever you have made of yourself thus far, so will you be hereafter. And when you reincarnate, you will bring that same nature with you. To change, you have to make the effort. This world is the place to do it." -- Read more: https://www.yogananda.com.au/gurus/yoganandaquotes07c.html

[Davidsun]

17 hours ago, Davidsun said:

Whatever you have made of yourself thus far, so will you be hereafter. And when you reincarnate, you will bring that same nature with you. To change, you have to make the effort. This world is the place to do it."

Speaking of 'growing' further in the above regard, I have reached the point where I more or less simply pray that whatever soul or souls my attention happens to focus on _receives_ whatever experience(s) would best stimulate/trigger its or their 'higher' soul-actualization and development - same prayer for everyone whether I 'like' them (based on my hierarchy of values) or not. And I aspire to 'act' in accord with such prayer when and in whatever ways may be personally possible, recognizing that such possibilities do not always exist.