overcast

o.k. I am very anti-spiritual. All the benefits of spirituality can be obtained in other ways IMO. Spirituality is usually harmless, but it can also cause serious damage to society and individuals.

That's true. When I posted this question, I was trying to understand if PC is a type of Christianity or something else. Most Christian denominations perceive the goal to be following Jesus, but they disagree about what Jesus taught. Theoretically, that should disallow Christians from knowingly making up their beliefs to suit their fancies (although in practice that is what probably happens throughout history - Christians wish something is true and then they get a "sign from God" telling them that this somethis is true).

Thanks, Azvanna, that is an interesting mix.

Thanks for the replies. A few years ago, I saw a light in a dream that I understood to be Jesus along with other ideas about salvation, forgiveness, etc. - my imagination? - some other creator that I mistakenly associated with Jesus due to similar character traits? Other things besides the dream make me wonder about Jesus too. The problem is that Christianity seems to be nothing special. Oh well, I'm a bit jaded now anyway.

My impression is that Progressive Christianity is mostly a label rather than an actual organization or community. So that impression leads me to ask - why the name? Most Christians would not accept PC as a form of Christianity. What is the purpose of calling PC "Christianity"? Here are some of my thoughts: (1) Labeling as Christian makes PC more welcoming to Christians as they lose faith. (2) Labeling as Christian makes PC more acceptable to friends and family who are still Christian. (3) Labeling as Christian made more sense in PC's earlier days and simply continues through inertia. (4) Labeling as Christian is sensible because PCs go to Christian churches, value Christian morality, etc. (5) Labeling as Christian is sensible because PCs believe that Christ is a spiritual reality of some kind.

Thanks, soma I'm feeling a bit jaded lately about spirituality, but those are good observations IMO.

Thanks, Paul. The whole "spiritual" thing is hard for me to understand. As you say, it seems to mean different things to different people.

Thanks I may know what you're talking about (possibly). I had a dream that seemed to have a similar message. My problem is that I have isolated memories sprinkled over many decades of my life, and they are like puzzle pieces - except they don't seem to be from the same puzzle (psychosis, psi, Christianity, Hinduism, magic, ... ?) So mostly I shug my shoulders and call myself an atheist, because I like atheism. On a practical level, all of us are atheists, because atheism, naturalism, science, and modern lifestyles are all related IMO.

Thanks, Joseph. If you have a thread where you described your beliefs, I would be curiuos. I finally accepted that my psychotic memories were incorrect in October. Prior to that, certain topics would trigger disturbing memories, and I would feel trapped between common sense and what I remembered happening. Common sense finally triumphed in October. So religion and supernatural is like reopening a can of worms for me. But there are loose ends that I can't explain. The problem is that my experiences don't match any psychological or religious hypothesis that I've heard. I don't know how to solve the riddle and I'm tired and jaded now.

It seems to me that "spiritual people" are more interested in subjective feelings instead of objective truth? They evaluate ideas based on their ability to inspire rather than their ability to explain facts? They follow practices because they make them feel better rather than because they think they serve a greater purpose? It's like the difference between a book of poetry and a science textbook.

I have noticed that many "spiritual" people believe the same things that atheists believe. Do any of you have ideas about what personality traits make people interested in "spiritual" ideas, practices, etc.? Personally, I'm not "spiritual", and I don't understand what motivates "spiritual" people. I'm only interested in talking to a real God, learning my real purpose, etc. Evidence has always been very important to me. I have a few experiences that don't fit neatly into reality or psychosis. Those loose ends bug me. "Spiritual" people seem to have different motivations that puzzle me.

Thanks, Bobbie0312 Even though I grew up as an Episcopalian, I was not aware of the high and low church until recently. My hometown only had one Episcopal church. I assume it was high church, but I'm only guessing. Shows how much I know about church I guess.

It's interesting that the Anglican Catholic Church formed in response to the Episcopalians revising the Book of Common Prayer in 1977. I was 11 years old at that time, but apparently that is one of the reasons my family stopped going to church. Here is something interesting you might not have heard about - Baptist Churches with Anglican liturgies http://baptistnews.com/ministry/congregations/item/28506-va-church-is-anglican-leaning-but-fully-baptist

My Orthodox priest used to have a easy answer to tough questions - "it's a mystery" I like the way Buddhists bow to each other (in acknowledgement that God exists in everybody I suppose?).

I hadn't heard of that denomination, but it sounds like a good one.

Thanks, Soma I need to start meditating again. I haven't for about a year. I think I will do it this morning

If you visit Orthodox churches, the Americanized branches are: Anticochian, OCA (Orthodox Church in America), and sometimes GOCA (Greek). I went to a Serbian church that was mostly Americanized, so it seems to depend on the parish. Also, Orthodox Easter is a week later than normal Easter this year. It's an interesting service, because our church used to give everybody an Easter egg at the end. Then you kiss everybody and say "Christ is risen" and the other person says "Indeed he is risen". I could do without the kissing. Of course I'm not recommending Orthodox - other than the novelty. They can be pretty strict and superstitious. EDIT: Also, Orthodox tend to be indifferent to visitors, so a guest can feel unwelcome and confused about the procedure. If you want to try one, then you could get instructions on the customs from a forum. This is the most active one that I have found, and most of the members seem to be American converts ( http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/ ) Episcopalian is the most progressive of course IMO.

Thanks, I gave that a try and it brought-up some results. I live in a small community, so nothing was near me. But that's o.k., because I feel most religious when my cat is kneeding my stomach just before I go to sleep at night

Hi, Deva, small world! I remember you from my stint at the ex-Christian forum. I hope you find a denomination that works.

PaulS, that sounds very similar to my experience. Many people say religion is harmless if it is kept to yourself, but that overlooks the harm that religion does to the believer. My mother and brother and sister and their families are still Christian. Their beliefs seem harmless enough, but sometimes I worry that these beliefs could cause trouble later. A person doesn't even need to be a Christian to be harmed by residual indoctrination. Currently, I pretend to be a disaffected Christian, because my mother would be worried about me going to hell otherwise. Sometimes I feel that I should help them all become atheists, to reduce the risk that any of them will ever experience anything like I experienced. But I don't want to create a mess. This also brings up the issue of whether mild Christianity is really harmless. Some atheists believe that mild Christianity makes it harder to eliminate strong Christianity. Also I don't think mild Christianity is harmless. I was raised as an Episcopalian (which is mild), but it has been a problem throughout my life - even when I lost faith. That is an issue for Progressive Christianity to consider IMO.

Thanks, JosephM. Out of curiosity, I tried to query for churches in my area, but I couldn't find anything within 500 miles? I must not be using the form correctly. It doesn't matter though. Are UU (Universalist Unitarians) considered Progressive Christians?

Is that fairly typical? I was imagining Progressive Christianity as more of a group activity with its own congregations and so forth. That is probably wrong.

PaulS, I can relate to the depression. Hopefully you got it under control, because I know it sucks. The tendency in traditional Christianity to treat mental illness spiritually is bad. In my case, I suspect that I never would have become psychotic if I had fully debunked my Christianity, but I'm not sure. Luckily I got better over a period of months without any psychiatric help. I have read that people who are treated with anti-psychotics are more likely to have a second episode, so it worked out for the best. I don't think it will ever happen again now that I'm an atheist.

Thanks, PaulS, that sounds similar to my situation in some ways. I'm 48, and I lost faith gradually in college, but Christianity has been a problem throughout my life. I considered myself an atheist, but I allowed for the possibility that Christianity was true - even though I had no personal evidence. Everybody else in my family was Christian. Then, I had my first and only psychotic episode a few years ago, and I think the residual Christianity in my life combined with the devout Christianity of my family to make the experience far worse than it needed to be. Looking at the brightside, I think that bad experience finally cured me of religion forever. It feels good to not believe at all.

Thanks, PaulS As for me, I attended Catholic services on Saturday evenings with my mother earlier this year. Communion bothers me, and, being non-Catholic, I would never be expected to participate. I have been trying to find ways to respect my family's Christian beliefs and maintain some ambiguity about my disbelief. Unfortunately, I joined a Catholic forum to learn the customs, and I was shocked to learn what Catholics actually believe. I imagined Catholics would be more open-minded. Also, I began to feel uncomfortable among all those devout Catholics at church. So I gave up that idea.