Elen1107
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Posts posted by Elen1107
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On 8/17/2020 at 10:34 PM, JosephM said:
I think it is up to the charity of individuals rather than government to do some of what you mention. I take it as a personal responsibility to do both for myself, family and for others. I can't control what other people do but i have done my best to provide for my family and others i have never met by sacrificing when i was younger so that i could have later in life to help and to leave my family with more than adequate resources to not suffer from my passing. I would encourage young people not to live as if there is no tomorrow and do the same. But if not, that is their business and consequences come and hopefully they learn before it is too late. I am not for government bailouts as that in my view breeds corruption among those who have been given power over our tax money and funds that were supposed to be limited by our constitution. I do not prefer socialism on a grand scale. Some social programs like Social Security seem to be needed because personal discipline in saving for the future in often lacking in many. SS is poverty wages for those who did not prepare for retirement but at least they won't starve for food and shelter if they are willing to move to more affordable accommodations..
You might be as much the exception as the rule in terms of looking out for your family if you pass first. So many people were told that everything would be ok, and then it turns out that it's not. Make sure you read the fine print, and know for real what is going to happen.
If these things are "socialist", then one would have to call most of Europe and Canada "socialist". I don't see them like that at all. They all took the good thing that we had during the 50's and made it better. I'm thinking that the US shouldn't be so arrogant and full of itself, as to not be able to keep growing and getting better and not be able to learn from other countries.
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On 8/17/2020 at 11:01 PM, JosephM said:
Elen, you may be right . For me, the president is not perfect but neither am i. I will not assume that i know what it is like to walk in his shoes and deal with the clientele that make up the rest of government and the slanted new media controlled by powerful people. We all live in the same country but with a myriad of views, different perspectives. It's a wonder with so many congressmen and woman and senator that anything gets done at that level. I am in awe over it. It's like over 400 cooks in the kitchen trying to determine which recipe for supper is best. 🙂
I don't expect "perfect", I do expect competent.
People have got to learn to elect people who can work together. The extremes that we have trying to work together right now is just not working.
On 8/17/2020 at 11:01 PM, JosephM said:Why can't they? Because they can't help being who they are at this moment in time. It is what it is. One can set an example but otherwise each of us ultimately has to want to change and much of the time suffering in the only catalyst for that change. Life is in my view all about personal choices and consequences and we can only make our own.
It's easy to criticize, judge, and point fingers at things or people we have limited knowledge of or are viewing from a limited perspective through a dark lens. I hope and pray for the best and do what is in my power and given talent to do and leave the rest to that which is All in All. I refuse to allow the things of this world to rob my given peace and joy and as the prayer goes " God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.”
I know Trump can't, or perhaps shouldn't, go around legislating things on the state level(s). But if he had just stood up and told that truth, and at least had recommended and demonstrated the CDC guidelines, I think that a lot more people would have followed them and there would be a lot less virus spread and death. If he had just put on a mask, much much earlier on, and told the people that it was a good idea, and told people to reopen in phases as the CDC recommends, the reopening in the US would have gone much, much better. We are lagging so far behind in the way it's been handled in other countries it's just shameful.
There are people who are saying, that on their death bed, their loved one made the dying statement that they made one mistake, that the trusted Trump. It's just too sad.
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On 8/20/2020 at 7:20 AM, thormas said:
Still, it is two different points: Jesus did believe in a physical Kingdom that was to be solely established by God, this was the apocalyptic hope of Jews at that time. When time kept marching on, the early Christians began to rethink the Kingdom till we arrived at John's Gospel. Thereafter we think of it as a spiritual Kingdom that dawned in Jesus and continues in each of us.
I'm thinking that if Jesus really is the Christ, which I think he is, he would have known what was to come and how things were going to unfold.
I agree he was depicted this way sometimes, by those who wrote and constructed the first three gospels. Perhaps because it was how they saw things, that is what they projected onto him and how they wrote him up.
Can't help but think that if Jesus had really wanted everything he said and or thought to be written down, there would be some mention of him saying that and telling someone/some people to do just that. If it had happened, wouldn't it have been in Aramic, the language that Jesus, and everyone he was communicating with, were speaking? There's no scrap of any such document(s).
Instead, what we have, is to live in his spirit and love, as well as God's love and that of the Holy Spirit. . . . (with no real book(s) . . . Just the indwelling spirit, which maybe is plenty enough.
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On 8/18/2020 at 9:46 AM, JosephM said:
As far as Erhman goes it is fine with me if he and others wish to 2nd guess concerning the kingdom that Jesus preached. I am convinced that it was spiritual and it is an experience rather than a physical kingdom that will reveal itself as confirmation to each in his/her own order.
I agree with you on this, this is how the "kingdom comes"
Jesus himself, as far as we know, never owned a house, or wrote a book. He even had to borrow a donkey to ride into town. He didn't have a thrown or a castle or fancy clothes and ornaments, and still he is the "king".
Like you say, it's spiritual and is an experience, rather than a physical kingdom. Maybe it cover the earth someday, until then it happens and comes to each person in their own time and at their own pace and in their own understanding.
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On 8/17/2020 at 8:00 PM, PaulS said:
It is most likely that later gospel authors such as Matthew and Luke, who had an element of gentile audiences, would have added gentile-friendly stories about Jesus to fit their own personal beliefs. As I have mentioned, these stories simply don't exist in Mark, our earliest Gospel, that Matthew and Luke build on.
That's not so. I haven't been able to study all of Mark with this question in mind, but here are some verses in Mark that do show Jesus teaching and preaching and healing non-Jewish people:
Mark 3:7 Jesus withdrew with his disciples to the lake, and a large crowd from Galilee followed. 8 When they heard about all he was doing, many people came to him from Judea, Jerusalem, Idumea, and the regions across the Jordan and around Tyre and Sidon.
Tyre and Sidon are Canaanite regions. Idumea I’m still trying to figure out. I see no reason to suppose that these verses are more or less made up than any of the others
Mark 5:1-20 Jesus heals a man with a demon called legion and sends them into a herd of pigs. We all know that Jews don’t eat pork, this is not a Jewish territory. It is called “the region of the Gerasenes”. This is a Gentile, culturally Greek area. Jesus tells the man to tell his own people about this, which he does in the Decaplis, (ten cities). The New Testament doesn’t say that all the people became believers, but it does say that they were all “amazed”.
JS Spong states in his book ‘Jesus for the Non-Religious’ (page 197), that the ‘feeding of the 4,000’ in Mark 8:1-21 was on the “Gentile side of the lake”.
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1 hour ago, thormas said:
Great question and I don't have a definitive answer. The question is always what did the writers and the audience (so to speak) believe?
Who among those pagans in the synagogues would even know to raise the question? Who would actually know it went back to Jesus or not - even Mark was 40 years after the death of Jesus? Even the writers if they received information from oral or written sources, would they know? Certainly they knew if they arranged sayings or events in order to tell the story the writer intended but would even the writers question 'inherited' material?
If there were a bunch of people who were not Jewish, who were converted by Jesus himself, would they and their children still be milling around the areas or nearby areas mentioned in the Gospels?
Would the Jewish-Christians, in the synagogue(s) where Mark was first composed, known or been aware of some of these people and or their children?
Could they have had another reason for including these peoples in Mark or the other Gospels?
If they were Jewish-Christians they may have felt that they could benefit more by just making Jesus's ministry only about Jewish Christian converts, (after all they had thought of themselves as the "chosen people"). Could there have been some non-Jewish Christians that did get left out because they wanted the Gospel to be more exclusively about the Jewish people? - Perhaps they couldn't get away with leaving out all the non-Jewish Christians who were converted by Jesus, entirely, because there were just too many of them, so they had to mention at least some of them?
I'm just typing down a train of thought here, and speculating. Fraid I'm not being fair to the people surrounding the composing of Mark. Just trying to get a variety of pictures on what could have been happening and this is just one of them. Could come up with another one that has entirely the opposite perspective. I'd like to think that the writing of Mark has a good amount of honesty in it, even if it was designed as liturgy and not a verbatim history. . . Just stuff to think about.
Thanks for reading
Edit/add > Seems to me if Mark got edited by non-Jewish-Christian people sometime later when the first copies that we have were made, they would have added a lot more Gentiles/non-Jewish converts. That is if editing was going on in relation to this topic.
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Edit 2 > I'm adding this after thormas's last comment below, I'm out of comments again for the next 24 hours or so.
Seems that there are such people in the Gospels
All we have is speculation right now. If any speculations can lead people somewhere, then that could be a good thing. Perhaps all we'll ever have is speculation, and we will never know this/these things for sure. Sometimes good ideas and insights start with speculation, and other times all they'll ever be is "just speculation".
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15 minutes ago, thormas said:
It seems with all gospel texts it has to be determined (if possible) if they go back to the historical Jesus or are created by the writers for theological reasons.
If the Gospels were created by and for the Greek speaking people in the synagogues, outside of Judea, as JS Spong says, would they have noticed this or known if this was true or not?
One would think that they would have noticed this, and known where these regions were and what kinds of people lived there.
If this was in the synagogues, then one would think that a good number of these people were Jewish-Christians. Would these people be more likely to include or exclude non-Jewish people in the stories concerning Jesus's ministry? Perhaps they would have done neither and just told the story as best they could remember or knew of it.
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I've found another verse that shows Jesus preaching and teaching to non-Jews, alongside and with a good number of people from the Jewish regions:
Mark 3:7 Jesus withdrew with his disciples to the lake, and a large crowd from Galilee followed. 8 When they heard about all he was doing, many people came to him from Judea, Jerusalem, Idumea, and the regions across the Jordan and around Tyre and Sidon.
I've had a little trouble figuring out who the Idumeans are, seems like they are half Jewish and half not, but I'm not sure. Indecently Herod was Idumean.
"Regions across the Jordan", sounds pretty non-Jewish to me.
I believe Tyre and Sidon are Greek Hellenistic areas Edit> I'm sorry, these are Canaanite areas. I don't always do so well when just typing from memory.
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Folks who use YouTube can catch the DNC here. One can even set a reminder for tonight and the next four days at their YouTube link
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19 minutes ago, thormas said:
I've seen her interviewed and heard excerpts on TV but reading about a known narcissist and sociopath, even from an expert, is not really of interest to me.
Same with his ex-lawyer's book: I'll hear about it but have no interest in purchasing it as I might need to buy another biblical scholar's book to discuss with Paul.☺️
The DNC starts tonight. Governor Cuomo is speaking at it tonight too.
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6 minutes ago, thormas said:
Well, although it is sometimes 'uncomfortable' it is also ok since I doubt you will concede 😋
How bout yourself?
One shouldn't "concede" if they truly feel they are right and honestly believe and or really do experience or know something.
However,. . . I'm not going to say what I was going to say,.. I'm just going to leave it there. . . for now.
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4 minutes ago, thormas said:
None that I know of but actually, when addressed to a beloved brother, is is kind of sweet.
Have you read the book just published by Trump's niece, "Too Much and Never Enough"?
Amazon gives a pretty good number of pages to preview it. Just click on the jacket cover. I found the Epilogue rather interesting.
https://www.amazon.com/Too-Much-Never-Enough-Dangerous/dp/1982141468
I didn't realize his niece was a PHD psychologist or something.
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On 8/16/2020 at 11:45 AM, thormas said:
To 'trust in the Lord' does not mean that you have to walk on eggshells in discussions and I take your comments as both articulating your position and also trying to get across to another what you firmly believe and what you believe might be important for others.
And it is fine that I disagree and do the same in discussions with you.
I'm not all that fine with the way we sometimes disagree
I'm thinking we could get better at/about it.
I'm absolutely not saying don't disagree, not if one is truly being honest and not just disagreeing to disagree, or for some other reason(s).
The way we sometimes do it could go a bit better, I think.
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On 8/16/2020 at 10:16 AM, JosephM said:
Why is their a need to look at it if it offends one? To me , it is history and i might enjoy the artistry and study the history. If i am offended at a topless beach, why would i go there? Should it be banned or closed? I think not. People are different and in my view need to learn to suffer others with differing beliefs.
What would you do if there was nothing but a topless beach near you? You'd have to deal with it or not go.
One could actually look at that statue as a form of hate speech, and possibly even a form of inciting a riot.
I do appreciate it's artistry, but when good art is used to promote that kind of negative thing, it does bother me.
On 8/16/2020 at 10:16 AM, JosephM said:That is a hypothetical with no existence in reality. We are one country. But just to play along say we were 2 countries, who can say for sure? So why wonder? Countries join together when their is a mutual interest.
What it took to deploy that many people in that short a time span as just one country was something phenomenon. I shudder to think what would have happened had we been two separate countries.
On 8/16/2020 at 10:16 AM, JosephM said:I was born in a Yankee state (PA) lived in a southern state and felt no such uncomfortableness. That is not to say that there aren't those who may feel that way but that is their problem to work out. There are choices they can make to move or change their thinking. There are things that can make one uncomfortasble no matter where they live because of the great diversity of people here.
I guess that you are lucky that you are able to move if ever you want to or feel the need. That is not so for everyone.
People have to look at that statue everyday or every week. They have no choice.
They also shouldn't have to leave their friends and families just to not be insulted everyday.
On 8/16/2020 at 10:16 AM, JosephM said:I think we can agree on sitting down and talking about it. I don't think these statues are recent builds. Most have been there for some time. The one in the picture was built in 1924 almost 100 years ago.
I agree with talking things out, and getting down to what the problems really are, even if they are hard to look at.
On 8/16/2020 at 10:16 AM, JosephM said:There are those programs existing already. Alot of it is subsidized by the US government programs. It is illegal immigration that is the problem . If one wants to help others in other countries you can always adopt a family or individual and support them through charity contributions through organizations, global food banks , etc. etc. I have been doing such for about 30 years now. It's not the job or original design of our government, it the job of individuals that have a mind to do so without offence to those who might think differently. In my view to take from all and give to others is an individual decision not to be forced upon people for a cheerful giver has the reward of love. It is not so with one who has to give of necessity.
Tax money is not governments to give .... Why? Read this story of Davy Crockett in the House of Representatives. https://fee.org/resources/not-your-to-give/
I've always felt pretty good about this country's disaster relief programs.
Perhaps people, and the government, should look at what they have and haven't done to enable people to recover from natural disasters on their own, or to enable or prevent elderly widows to be able to maintain and provide for themselves in their later years.
I see this happening today. I've know a good number of older women who lose out in hard and tragic ways once their husband dies. They end up below the poverty level and working minimum-wage jobs with no insurance, all the while being over 50, sometimes over 70 or 80. I've seen this time and time again. However if the wife were to pass on first, the husband is just fine and doesn't have to change a thing, doesn't have to sell his home, or get a crummy job. He can be and stay retired and not worry about food or medication or how he is ever going to live out his last days.
I like the Davy Crockett song, but I disagree with him here and with Mr. Bunce too. I think they are wrong.
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On 8/16/2020 at 11:59 AM, thormas said:
The trumpster's brother, Robert Trump. died this weekend.
The trumpster describes his brother as also his best friend. He flys in and out to see him and leaves for his country club. Most people would stay till the end for a brother and a best friend or at least come back later or the next day.
This is odd ............but we are dealing with a narcissistic sociopath - so he before everybody else. And we all are the worse for it.
No one is stating what Robert died of - I'm wondering why?
In this article it states that Trump said this about his brother, “the only guy in my life whom I ever call honey."
Do guys usually do that? - Just thought I'd ask
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On 8/16/2020 at 10:14 AM, thormas said:
Even with the separation of powers which we have always had: it's still called Leadership. If the trumpeter 'said' we should all do this, if he modeled it, if he got the Congress behind him as a show of solidarity and if got on the phone with Governors - we would have nearly if not complete nation wide compliance.
Very well said. Thank You
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On 8/16/2020 at 9:43 AM, JosephM said:
The U.S. Constitution uses federalism to divide governmental powers between the federal government and the individual state governments. The Tenth Amendment tells us that all powers not granted to the federal government are reserved to the states. I think we sometimes expect too much of the Federal government which as designed was meant to have its authority limited. I like that. This gives me the freedom to move to a state that is more in line with my views in the way they operate and the laws of that state. For example i personally would not choose to live in California or New York because my views are not aligned with their state laws and the way they operate.
It's nice that you are able to move to and live in a state that best reflect your views and understanding of things. It would be nice if everyone could do that without too much hardship.
I agree that there is a limit to what the feds can legislate and do legally on the state level, & some of this is good and sometimes creates a relevant balance.
However, the precedent that the President sets is also important. The leadership that the President gives and models can carry real weight and influence, whether or not he/she is enacting or directing the laws on the state levels.
On 8/16/2020 at 9:43 AM, JosephM said:The community in Florida i live in best reflex my views and i would say 90+ % of the people follow the CDC's recommendations. As a result, we have the lowest Covid-19 rate of the three counties surounding us and one of the lowest community rates. About everything is open and operating at 50% capacity seating. If i go to a restaurant that doesn't social distance or workers don't wear masks, i merely notify the manager and leave unless they comply. No hard feelings against them if they don't comply as there are many restaurants like minded as myself. So i will gladly choose another and hope all do likewise. We can only make choices for oneself. I don't expect others to make the same choices as me but their choice will have consequences and i don't need to share in them. I can always eat at home.
I too choose to go to places that are serious about following the CDC's guidelines. I'm not eating out while covid is going on, but in choosing where I buy groceries and other necessities, I'm much more supportive and appreciative of those organizations that care and take things for real and seriously. "Wearing is Caring" is something that one sees on the electronic billboards around here.
Thing is, if organizations and groups and individuals in my area are not following the guidelines, they are not just affecting themselves and putting themselves at risk. They are spreading this thing, this covid, all over my community and my neighborhood. Why can't they be considerate and conscientious? This is just one year out of people's lives where they need to do things differently. It's not the end of the world, (hopfully) if they can't go out and party and socialize for one whole year.
We will get a vaccine, it's just a matter of time. In the mean time is it too much to ask that people keep the infection and "kill" rate down?
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On 7/30/2020 at 7:31 PM, PaulS said:
I don't see any cancel culture oriented people wanting to change history or change the past, they just want it acknowledged that hero worship of racist figures should not continue unchallenged. Such statues should be removed and replaced with a marker that accurately tells the story. That would actually provide better context of the time period without it appearing as a form of status. Proper historical markers properly explain history and don't just display a statue honoring one side of the story.
Here's a 'historical marker' of Robert Lee in Virginia. Can you seriously say this is just a simple historical marker that explains history and not an idol of hero worship to somebody who the majority of whites in that area praised for his anti-black ideals?
I keep thinking about this picture and this issue. I'm descended from some Civil War Veterans from the North. I keep thinking that I would be offended and insulted by this statue. It's like, what did all these people fight and die for, just to have some weird thing like this erected and stand there for everyone to have to look at.
I've met and heard about people who are still fighting our wars from the past. The Civil war, the Mexican American war, even the American Revolution. When it comes to the Civil War, and you ask people from the south, "Do you really think the US should be two separate countries?” they're like, "No, no, we don't want that!" You ask them, "Do you really want slavery back?" and they're like, "Oh no we don't want that!". So I'm like what do you want? and they're like "We want to win!" . . . I'm like, well, this was a war, it was actually about something, it's not a game where it's just about winning cause there's nothing else to do. Some wars actually had meanings and were fought for real reasons.
Thing is, if the US had become two separate countries, what would have happened during WWII? Could the Nazis have taken over the entire world ? and then where would we be?
That being said, I've met people who are descended from southern, white, plantation holders that are the nicest, fair minded people that you'd ever want to meet. I've also met a good number of closet Yankees from the south, who just say they don't feel comfortable being that open about it down south.
Myself, I don't hold people responsible for their heritage. I don't even hold people responsible for their parents. Blaming people for what other people have done, even in their own families to me involves a twist of thinking that just isn't healthy and it can even get quite weird and dysfunctional.
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I don't know if this makes sense or not, but if people in the south, or anywhere, are genuinely feeling overwhelmed and "threatened" by other groups of people, there are much more sensible ways of dealing with it than calling out the kkk or building statues to past defenders of slavery. For one thing they can sit down and talk about it and discuss what the future might look like so everyone can have a decent and secure future.
I really believe that this world is big enough so that people can be both culturally-centric and integrate, depending on their own choices and preferences, and people can actually chose to do both like six of one and a half dozen of the other. I think that both are great and wonderful and important in this world and in the future.
An example of when one group of people was feeling overwhelmed by another occurs in Genesis 26: 16-31. I'm not saying that things need to be done like this or anything like this. I'm just trying to say that there are more sensible ways of dealing with things than what we see going on now, or in the past when that statue was erected.
This is a shortened version of Genesis 26: 16-31
16 Then Abimelech said to Isaac, “Go away from here, because you are far too overwhelming/powerful for us.” 17 So Isaac left that region and camped in the Valley of Gerar, and settled there. .... .... 22 He moved away from there and dug another well, and they did not quarrel over that one; so he named it Rehoboth (broad places), saying, “For now the Lord has made [d]room for us, and we shall be [e]prosperous in the land.”
Covenant with Abimelech
26 Then Abimelech came to him from Gerar with Ahuzzath, his [close friend and confidential] adviser, and Phicol, the commander of his army. 27 Isaac said to them, “Why have you [people] come to me, since you ... have sent me away from you?” 28 They said, “We see clearly that the Lord has been with you; so we said, ‘There should now be an oath between us, that is, between you and us, and let us make a covenant (binding agreement, solemn promise) with you, 29 that you will not harm us, just as we have not touched you and have done nothing but good to you and have sent you away in peace. You are now the blessed and favored of the Lord!’” 30 Then Isaac held a [formal] banquet (covenant feast) for them, and they ate and drank. 31 They got up early in the morning and swore oaths [pledging to do nothing but good to each other]; and Isaac sent them on their way and they left him in peace.
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The same thing seems to be happening with regards to immigration, both here in the US and in other places around the world. A lot of people genuinely want to help other people around the world who are having a hard time or are not able to deal with things. At the same time there are people who are concerned about being overwhelmed by other groups of people and other cultures.
Perhaps if there were programs, where people could come to this country, or other countries, for a while, and gain some skills, save some currency, and get some ideas, and then return to their homelands with ideas and skills and ways of improving things, so people don’t have to keep leaving their homelands just to eat or be safe. People could do this in groups, even with well thought out plans and ideas for the future.
This way everyone could have a future everywhere, instead of just here and there and all on top of each other.
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Just saying. Feel free to disagree with me. It’s just stuff I’ve been thinking about for a while and maybe some of it would work out.
Thanks for reading
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1 hour ago, Burl said:
Russia released a Covid vaccine last week.
Yeah, I heard that too.
Wonder how good it is, or if anyone will be able to access it besides people in Russia.
Don't think I'll hold my breath on any of that helping people here in the US real soon.
Wonder if they'll share their recipe
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10 minutes ago, JosephM said:
I don't disagree with that. Being over 70 i am particularly at risk and take the prescribed precautions you mention. What others do is up to them. Eventually foolishness will reveal itself to those who do not use wisdom. We can make suggestions to others but each ultimately must be responsible for their own actions. We can do our best to separate ourselves from those we believe might be choosing to act unwisely. The risk of harm is always greater in a free society and i prefer and am okay with that.
I've got to say that I think that good leadership counts here. It's all well and good if individuals decide they want to wear masks and go along with the CDC's guidelines. Even if ALL individuals think about it and think they want to do it. If government and leadership doesn't get everyone on the same page, it's not going to work and it's not going to happen. Why would individuals go and wear a mask if everybody, or most of everybody, isn't going to do it? It just wouldn't make sense.
It's not just about what people do to and for themselves. Get that thing, that virus, circulating around the community, one's own community, and people could be asking for real problems and real hazards. They could be ripping their own communities apart. There also seems to be such a thing as "viral load". It's one thing if a person gets one or two viri, their bodies can probably handle it and flush it out. Get a whole lot of the virus from two or three different people and one could really be in trouble, no matter how young and healthy they are.
10 minutes ago, JosephM said:I have confidence in the talented people we have in this society and believe we will have many more vaccines being released either before or just after the new year.
That's what Dr. Fauci is saying, that he's cautiously optimistic that we'll have a vaccine by the beginning of next year.
I hope that you are staying safe and healthy. Best Wishes and Good Luck with everything.
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3 minutes ago, JosephM said:
Elen,
I for one think you are on the right track. Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not to your own understanding is a powerful writing that will prove itself over and over. I don't worry about mistakes i may make on the way. God is well able to make me stand in spite of falls or any failings on my part. I know and have no doubt that live die, sink or swim, nothing shall be able to separate me from the love of God which is in Christ.
A lot of it has been shared here over the last 11 years and that which is not can be found in a book with both factual and fiction inserted in it to make it more readable. It was published in 2003 called "An Awakening Within" available by ebook or softcover from Amazon. Barnes and Noble or directly from Trafford Publishing by e-book for $3.99.
I sometimes wonder if trusting in the Lord and loving Em/them (the trinity) intertwines with our own understanding or spiritual understanding of things. - - - (though not so much when I got mad at thormas and probably have said a wrongish thing here and there 😞 ) - - -
Thanks for saying you think I'm on the right track.
Maybe I'll check out your book at some point. I'm not so good and doing purchases online, the whole thing just scares me. Snail-mail and old fashioned stores are much more my way of doing things. Same with supporting this forum so I can make more comments and stuff. I'm just not big on online purchasing.
I'll check out some of your posts from previous years. Thanks
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31 minutes ago, Burl said:
Traditions often need to be updated, but rarely discarded entirely. Traditions are successful solutions to old problems and if they are chucked out we usually get our old problems back. Better to make gradual adjustments.
Yes, very much so. But if we forget the reasons that they are there in the first place, then they die anyways, because we don't know why we're doing things and they seem nonsensical.
I've been thinking about this country's sense of good citizenship a lot lately. It seems that because parts of it really needed to be changed and re-thought-out, and updated, it seems like a lot of people just got mad at "good citizenship" in and of itself, and threw their whole sense of good citizenship out entirely. They/we felt betrayed by "good citizenship" or the sense of good citizenship we had been taught. So it was 'good citizenship' itself that got attacked and ripped apart.
Attacking one's or the country's whole sense of 'good citizenship' has not turned out to be a very good idea. 😞
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I've read two things about herd immunity:
One is that we get it the same way people got it in the 1918 epidemic, where 50,000,000 (50 million) people died.
The other is that we get it through a vaccine.
I vote for number 2 !!
Thing is we really do need to play it safe and practice the CDC's and medical experts guidelines until we get a vaccine. We really do.
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9 hours ago, thormas said:
Well said on all counts. And for most people there is no dependency on books, simply a recognition, as you have said, that they convey the experience of other people - some long gone, some still with us and they are welcomed and respected insights of those people that are considered along with much else. There is no need to wait on God as God is ever-present.
God is ever-present,... but we can't experience Em directly . . ? . .
I'm mad at you right now . . . I'm afraid I'll say the wrong thing,.. if I haven't already . . . 😞 . . .
😞
& that's that . . 😞 . . . 😞 . . . 😞 . .
:-(
NT Wright on women preachers
in Progressive Christianity
Posted
I lean towards thinking that people saw his eternity, or saw/experienced the eternity in him, during his earthly life/ministry, not just after the reresection.
There are plenty of verses about eternal life, and his being the messiah, in the body of and during the course of the gospels.
First off, how much "like us" do you need him to be? He was human, but perhaps the best of and the most that any human could or can ever be. If I, as a person, were to try to enter in to a competition with him, I'd just give up before step one, and say you have it, you win. I don't however think this is so much of a competition or anything like that. Maybe a learning experience and something more, maybe something much, much more. But a competition, no. I'm just not doing that.
The verses where Jesus is quoted as saying, (quotes are from memory here), "The kingdom of heaven is within you", "The kingdom of heaven comes in a way that cannot be seen", "The kingdom of heaven is scattered among you and people do not see it". These verses don't sound very apocalyptic and actual, physical "end of the worldy" to me. Don't see how people see him as being so completely apocalyptic in this way, when there are much subtler verses that express the coming of the kingdom.
If JC was just a regular person, and he had set the changes in motion that he did, it doesn't take that big an all seeing outlook to figure that things would pan out somewhat the way that they did. That the kingdom inbreaks and fades and then inbreaks again, (over and over again), as the rest of us humans slowly make our way forward.
I can see it that the earliest Christians, (at least some of them) and Paul were apocalyptical, but I don't think that JC was. Some words may have been put into his sayings to suit their views, or maybe they/we just misunderstood some of the things he said and how he meant them, but apocalyptic in the way we tend to uses the word, no.