Larry

Yes, Soma. Yes. Understanding that we are part of this universe is one starting point to the flow of it all. It can be difficult to go beyond good and evil. There can be a knee-jerk reaction of moral judgement. "Without clear delineation of good and evil we have no moral compass," they say. Answer: right and wrong does not cease to exist. It is just the opinion that one is better than the other that fades away.

I heard a story once. In a warring country, the army rounded up citizens to impress into action. The father lied and said his son whom the army sought had gone away. (Lie is wrong.) But it saved his son. (Good) While hiding from the army in the woods, the son broke his arm. (Bad) He walked to the nearest house and stayed they while the maiden who lived there tended to him for five days. They fell in love and got married. (Good) Their house burned down (Bad), so while walking to the nearest town, they found a fortune of gold. (Good) With the money, they bought a fancy home. (Good) The first child they had was impress in the army at age 16. (Bad)

It's a circle or a river or a speck of dust on the wind.

Hello. I am Larry, 62, married, retired, waking up. I am coming into myself and pleased to meet God in me, as me. This is how I came to be me in many ways.

I have Borderline Personality Disorder. As a result, I have never had a sense of self, a separate, individual self. I derived my identity from others. I have always done what others wanted to do, gone where they wanted to go, even believed what they believed. I had no beliefs of my own. After a divorce late in life, I was on my own, a frightening situation, with no developed self with which to live. I turned to traditional Christianity for identity. I did not fit. I took a bold move.

I intended to find Jesus without the Bible because I saw contradictions, illogic, and flat-out errors. I studied its history and discovered that it is not literal and a book about how man sees God rather than a revelation of God to man. I explored the historic development of ideas and essential beliefs and discovered that they grew and evolved over time, changing as they went. It took six years to do so, studding on my own, but I deconstructed modern, fundamental, protestant Christianity.

I sought my own beliefs but through that process, I had only released false beliefs. Left with no beliefs, I began to study other paths and ways to be Christian. Now I relate to Progressive Christianity. I have much to learn, but a large part of that learning is to look within and talk with God--not Bible God but an infinite, undefinable God that Jesus called Father. We explore new ideas, find answers that seem true for now. All that I know now, everything that I seem to believe, and the answers may be discarded tomorrow because I will always seek deeper understanding. For now, however, I am pleased with myself for seeking my own beliefs, starting out on my personal journey. It has been a major psychological achievement in my healing process with understanding therapists. I have my own path now that I can walk by myself for myself.

I have also practiced Zen Buddhism for many years.

So again, hello.

Hi Paul,

 

it seems to me like a difficult question to answer. My daughter and family are very active in a fundamental Baptist church . When i do attend on special occasions where my grandkids are participating in a program i cringe at the words that are spoken and come out of their mouth. The indoctrination teachings they are exposed to seems like brain-washing to me.. However, it is beyond my control and i am presently convinced that any opposing view i might entertain with them unless solicited, might serve only to segregate our relationship.

 

It does seem perplexing at times but i find peace in my experience of seeing that in time, truth surfaces of its own accord when the subject is ready. If they ask my opinion, i certainly would not hesitate to respond but that has not been the case and they are already aware from my books of alternate views.

 

They are not activists or extremists in their actions even though one may classify their belief system as so. Basically, they are loving parents doing what they believe is right or best for their children. They are also a help for good to their community. They don't seem to be forceful in pushing their views on others and even though they may have a strong opinion on God and gays and would have little to do with them, they don't seem to wish them harm but rather pray for them. (My one brother is gay and they have kept their belief to themselves concerning him) I would not put too much weight on what they say they belief but more on their actions. As long as they are not harmful i would echo "live and let live"

 

Joseph

 

 

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I agree. I also believe that we can have dialog with Fundamental Christians if and when they are willing to discuss and learn about the progressive side.

 

This is going to be a very controversial post but I do hope we will be able to dialog in a spirit of respect and love.

 

As I made it clear at other places, I have a huge respect for many modern and past atheistic philosophers such as Nietzche, Sartre, Camus, Macky or Comte-Sponville.

They are or were great and honest thinkers having had a tremendous contribution to the advancement of philosophy.

 

I do, however, strongly despise the New Atheists (like Denett) who are to atheism what fundamentalism is to Christianity: a shame and an embarrassment.

 

 

The New Atheists (also called anti-theists or militant atheists) are a particular group of atheists who advocate the use of emotional bullying, mockery and ridicule towards every religious believer.

 

I think we have strong grounds for concluding they are a hate group with a far right ideology.

 

We also have good evidence that they are people who have had a very bad (often traumatic) experience with religious fundamentalists.

 

Did you yourself had interactions with them?

 

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I do not interact with them. Sometimes I wish that the new atheists who hate only interact with the Christians who hate. (My bad to say that.)

 

 

 

A not uncommon theme on this forum is that we are 'one' with the universe. We are intimately entwined in the universe, not two separate entities but us and everything else, all as one. Some comments to reinforce this have been 'everything is as it should be'.

 

My confusion with this arises from our life as it exists now. There are things going on in this world that would seem to harm and cause angst. There are things that contribute nothing to love and in fact to the opposite effect, contribute to hate, anger and violence.

 

If the universe is one and acting exactly how it's meant to act, then my logic suggests that all the 'evil' things that are happening are meant to happen. Cruelty, hate, war, paedophilia, crime, racism, homophobia, etc etc, are all the universe at work aren't they?

 

If I have that understanding correct (and maybe I don't) then shouldn't we simply let all these things happen and not get involved?

 

 

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Getting involved is the universe at work also, however, involvement is optional. Not getting involved is the universe at work.