Larry

Isn't there unity before awareness/distinction followed by the struggle for unity?

The key word is "inseparable." There are two: 1) the seer and 2) the seen. Awareness is the third that looks at the seer and the seen.

When a tree knows it is a tree, is it still a tree?

Who is it who sees grace given and received?

When I see myself walking, who walks?

Two birds of beautiful plumage, comrades,
Inseparable, live on the selfsame tree.
One bird eats the fruit of pleasure and pain;
The other looks on without eating.

I am two birds.

Both of the world and not.

I am the seer and the seen.

I am that and that is me.

Add awareness and there are three.

Some people worship the bible more

Than he at that idols core.

When the all is reduced to the one, to what is the one reduced?

What does not unfold ongoing is dead.

Yes, the Bible is more than partially forged. History boods are also partially forged.

God is get dressed and eat breakfast.

No, Jesus did not die for our sins. To appease an angry god with blood sacrifice is very primitive.

I have a cat, now 18 years old. Several months ago, he seemed to have given up on life. I considered putting him down, he was that "bad off". Then, I thought, just make him comfortable. Ease his way. So I cleaned his head twice a day, combed him out ... and then I realized he was "down" because he could not do this for himself. It did not matter if I did it for him, he just needed to be clean.

 

Well, he is still here. Cranky, as always. As healthy as an 18 year old cat could be.

John 13:5

"...he poured water into a basin and began to wash his disciples’ feet, drying them with the towel that was wrapped around him."

John 13:15

"I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you."

Having been raised in a fundamentalist series of churches, I have a strong fear of a vindictive God. It gives me quite a bit of anxiety. I am constantly afraid of messing up.

 

Did anyone else struggle with this issue?

Yahweh is certainly presented as vindictive and he punishes humans quick and harsh. I think this goes back prehistoric times. If the volcano explodes it meant that the god of the volcano was angry. They could see no reason for that god to be angry so they believed it must have been something wrong that they did. The Hebrews ran with this idea: if they were good, God was good; if they were bad, God got mad and punished them. It is all made up and pretend.

Hello from a new subscriber to this site following on from a reading of "The God Delusion" by Dawkins which got me really interested in reviewing my own beliefs as a 72 year old anglican agnostic.

I assume that Christianity is the only major religion today which views sin as a "state of being" as well as an act. This concept to me seems nonsensical. Am I being unfair to my own religion?

 

The cultural parameters of sin defines it as such. Stealing is wrong, is a sin. However, for a 19th century Nez Perce war party to steal horses from a Shoshone Indian camp was great honor. For an Israelite to burn incense on his own in any place he chose was an abomination to God. Burning incense in your house today is no big deal. Many Christians even belief that failure to do something one can and ought to do is a sin, the sin of omission. (Is not pulling over to help someone change a flat tire on the road a sin of omission or not giving money to a street-corner beggar?) The most horrific concept of sin is Original Sin.

Just my rambling thoughts probably off-topic.

What finger is this pointing to the moon?

A beautiful finger,

Form to admire then to cherish and lust.

Easy to see, understand, and discuss,

So familiar,

Comforting like a childhood dinner.

What moon is this out there and up?

Mysterious, without definition,

Or classifiable with common reference,

Taboo they preach,

Not solid rock to build on,

The devil of deceit.

Addiction overrides free will to choose and then to act.

Thank you for the responses. I guess as I question my fundamentalist background that it is hard to know what to believe now about God.

The study of the influences of Zoroastrianism on Judaism is very revealing.

This is an issue that has haunted me since I was 12 years old, or so. A few years ago I came across a concept in the work of D. M. Schnarch dubbed "The Devils' Pact." It has to do with the fact that humans ask "convenient" questions in order to avoid those questions that are more difficult.

 

I'll start with this. The history of philosophy has produced no general agreement on any issue (that I know of). Philosophers do not even agree on a definition of "doubt".

 

Theology, not any better.

 

Thus the question. How do you decide what you value, and to what degree?

I get confused in my brain a lot so I distill what I value down to LOVE and the degree is 100%.

This may be something about which to think, not that it matters. I just find it interesting and it is my opinion with no supportive documentation.

The Trinity may have been created as a recruiting tactic. The pagan pantheons had a triad of gods and goddesses. The Greeks had Zeus, Athena, and Apollo. The Hindu triad of Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. The Egyptian had a triad of Osiris, Isis, Horus. The pagans who converted to Christianity were accustomed to a triad of gods and goddesses. Christianity gave them a triad only they called it the Trinity with a twist that all three were one. Very cleaver.

SW,

 

Here is a group of scholars undertaking such an issue and their results so far.in an article by the New Orleans Times.

 

http://www.nola.com/religion/index.ssf/2011/03/changes_to_the_bible_through_the_ages_are_being_studied_by_new_orleans_scholars.html

 

Joseph

 

PS Some think Constantine and the church system influenced content changes, some think not. It was a secretive document for much time in history that the general public had limited or no exposure to. How can one know for sure? It seems to me that people will believe what they want to believe but to me there are too many inconsistencies within its own pages to believe it is God's Word rather than that of men concerning their beliefs and stories about God.

I think that because we cannot trust the Bible to be the word of God and that we do not know what was changed, what was added later that is best not to read it. Maybe it is best to have conversation direct with God through meditation and contemplative prayer.

If the universe is one and acting exactly how it's meant to act, then my logic suggests that all the 'evil' things that are happening are meant to happen. Cruelty, hate, war, paedophilia, crime, racism, homophobia, etc etc, are all the universe at work aren't they?

 

Why see the universe acting exactly how it's meant to act and is at work? Is a tree growing in the woods at work?

Skyseeker, I see that you have received some excellent reply's from PaulS, Soma, Pete, and Norm. My only topic is the Fall of Man story in Genesis. I say "story" because I think that story is a myth. Without one definitive explanation available, we must derive our own interpretation. My take on the story is this:

Adam and Eve acquired the knowledge of good and evil. After eating the fruit, they entered into the world of duality. There was no longer one interaction with the world and each other. With duality came a double take on the world, actions, and thought process. With duality, every thought has an opposite thought creating a conflict between good and evil, right and wrong, good and bad, truth and falsehood, etc. It is enough to drive anyone split in the head. Until a synthesis of good and evil is achieved, that bipolar thinking continues causing a split. Zen meditation is an excellent way to bring synthesis. So is Contemplative Prayer. At bottom is belief that conflicting thoughts can come together. Demonic possession or influence is just a primitive answer to the problem of duality. You are past that ancient belief.

I think the serpent representing our inner urge to grow up. The garden is the ideal stage of innocence in the first few years of life. Because we lose our innocence, we must then live in often harsh world of accountability with positive and negative consequences when we exhibit "evil"d behaviors. As we further develop, our conscious, intended to help us learn the difference between right and wrong.

Thank you for your original post.

Then Larry it appears to me you don't believe in a transcendent god.

What does free will have to do with transcendence?

Just possibly they are not good or bad, full stop.

 

When a hyena kills a lion cub is that good or bad?

Neither.

It is just the opinion that one is better than the other that fades away.

 

I think this is fine in hypotheticals or low risk situations, but how does say paedophilia sit on your scale, Larry? Isn't even having an opinion in the first place the universe at work?

Discard comparisons and a tree is just a tree, not better or worse than another tree. Pedophilia is wrong. In God's eyes, it is not worse than any other sin. He does not compare, or so I have been told.

Does God have free will?

Yes.