TheMeekShall

We should publisize statistics that show whose ideas are better. Republican states have higher divorce & abortion rates. With all the hate mongering on the right, we'll be hitting a brick wall for a while, but as more and more people get sick of things like Iraq's occupation, outsourcing jobs, we'll have laid a foundation for a more rational country. The road will be hard: I'm an ex Math tutor, and there sure is alot of resistance, and as a veteran of Hannity's forum, I've seen how the right fuels antiintellectualism, Fox etc. pushes hate as effectively as dealers push herion, and thinking can get in the way of that fix. Even people who are simathetic to your cause can be terrified of Math: after the "election" on Thom Hartmann's board I'd talk about how the difference between the exit polls and the results that we're found on machines that could be downloaded with bogus results (in over 1/4 of the country), as simply slowly as possible, with graphs to help people along. Even though many on the board were intensely interested in the subject, inevitably someone would say my explaination was too complicated. America is quite mathphobic.

If you intend to apease the anti-abortion people with this forget it, they're looking for total victory. Make birth control more avaiable, encourage talk of sex between generations, so teens feel comfortable asking for birth control. This openess would cut the preganacies in young women. I've also noticed a pattern with my exgirlfriends. Those who we're virgins until 16 or later felt they were ready, those who lost it before 16 generally felt they rushed into it, and wish they waited. Many girls today start before they're 16. Adults should tell girls that they shouldn't allow pressure to rush them into sex.

Interfaith on noncontrovesial community projects is great, fundementalism might be the best situation for those who are falling apart from drug use to join, but they appeal only to a niche. We're better of making Progressive Christianity into a group that appeals to open minded, loving, intellegent people, otherwise, especially if faith based programs grow mainly from evangelical projects, most people will see Christianity in the pushy, intolerant vein that evangelicals portray it as, and people who are not of a fundementalist mindset will stay away from all forms of Christianity.

The speech is good. Since I've started talking about my ideas, I'm becoming more aware that a sleeping giant is waking. Nothing like a war of agression to turn complacent libereals into activists. I don't know if UCC as a whole is trying to become more visible in progressive ideas, but yesterday I saw an TV ad that touted them as an inclusive church. So at least here, they're gayfriendly.

The problem with DU, is it burns on impact, realeasing particles that easily get in the lungs. These are chemically toxic as heavy metals, as well as radioactive. The old standards of toxicity were based on much larger particles that didn't get in the bloodsteam as easily.

I think he was saying that no one is 100% pure, therefore before you judge another's inperfections, you need to acknowledge you have some, too, so it's best to overlook theirs.

Al Franken satirized how some people see Jesus. This is a hilarious comic strip:Supply Side Jesus

In case anyone is afraid of the brilliance of the Christian Right, and thinks they can outthink us, don't worry. They can alienate anybody. I was staying at the Mission couching inseccently, feeling sick as a dog. I asked for a day of bedrest, and beacuse it meant missing their nightly indoctrination session, said I needed a doctor's note. That's also why liberal Christians need to send the public the message, we're not like them!

My comments about Jesus etc being turnoffs in mailings may seem extreme to some of you, it comes from a sense of frustration that I've dealt with. Let me suggest a compromise: everytime he's mentioned in a mailing, add a couple of sentences about his stance on social issues. As for activities like the obesity workshop, it's an opportunity to go beyond the "plain vanilla" of something like calorie counting. The person who is leading it at my church is very loving, and I'm sure she talks about loving yourself enough to take care of yourself. The reason I believe that "God is Love' is a more central tenant than "Jesus is Lord", is the second allows demagauges to twist Christianity anyway that suited their wallet, and Jesus had a strong opinion of the moneychangers. Let's look at the linguistics here: "It depends on what your definition of is, is" - Bill Clinton. At least defining is is pretty simple, isn't it? Is means 100%, that the right hand part of the sentence is pretty much the same as the left hand. In Christianity God's and Jesus' goals are similar, so to know one, you know the other. So both statements, if both true should hold the same clout with God. But "Jesus is Lord" is easier to pervert than "God is Love", so we should stick with "God is Love" as the truer statement of Christianity.

You have made lots of good points here. For me, and I speak only for myself, the backbone of Christianity is love, and since Progressive Christianity is more focused on it I have joined with it.I started this thread because it's my purpose to bring it back, as a priority and make it more a part of the Church. I have a hard time accepting that a mass murderer who repents 10 seconds before his execution will be granted eternal life while Ghandhi is dead. The obesity workshop was something ongoing in my church before I started the postcard idea, I use it as an example of how a church can attact people to make a loving community, as for what fits in your church, you certainly have choices, free food, a literacy program. Jesus taught love, sometimes people need a more tangible expression of it than listening to a minister on Sunday. Meet people halfway, it's easier to convert a friend than an adversary.

Let's face it, we've been outflanked by the evangelicals. When people hear the word "Christian" they think of some pushy preacher telling them they better be saved than the Progressive message "love thy brother as thyself". Progressives have to create teir own brand of Christianity. An additional mistake that progressives have made is they focused so heavily on government run programs that we gave the right a single target, and Reagan and Rove have made mincemeat out of it. We put everything on the electoral system, then they stole the vote, and Rove bullied any journalists willing to challenge them. 84 year old Mike Wallace as arrested for assaulting an NYPD cop, Dan Rather's career is over, and noone else is willing to step forward. We made a mistake no chess player in their right mind would make. Any chess player who attacks with a queen if checkmate isn't immonent will find an opponent very willing to trade a bishop, knight, or a rook for the queen, so can easily chase around the queen. Our queen was government programs, instead of keeping it back to support other pieces, we advanced it to attack all the problems. Oooooooops! Our biggest problem wasn't Karl Rove, it was ourselves. We already have an infrastucture for change, our churches. The buildings aren't in use all the time, and doing things is just another excuse for getting together with friends, why don't we use it? If we just rely on government, they'll come up with twisted ideas like the media consolidfation the FCC has decried or an energy bill that includes $180 million to build a Hooters. As volenteers in an organization if we don't like the way things are done we can leave, which is certainly easier than getting Georgie to change his evil ways, Find the needs of your community then sell it. My hometown includes lots of obese people, my church is doing a weight class. We're selling our church as a community center and we're mailing our church activities as postcards to publise our work, because seems to be the best way to get people to say yes before their sales resistance comes up, and it ends up in the garbage. On the address side we will have a list of activities, on the other, the dates, times and a couple of sentances, to bring people in. The first set of cards at least will have that approach. I plan on hand distributing cards so I can see how people react to them, especially when the answer is no. I think a church that meets the needs of its community can do a large mailing of cards around the town, and get more back than the cost of the mailing itself, although I wouldn't bet the farm on that. ----------------------------------------------- We need to create an identity to the Christian left, in NLP terms, a Christian left brand Branding the Christian left Let's start will the basic philosphies: The Christian Right: Jesus is Lord. The Christian left: God is Love. The Right wants you to join them, the left wants to join with anyone who can accept love. The Christian left is likely suffering from the arrogance of the right. Many who are halfway tolerant who hear the word Christian and think of arrogant evangelicals and Domionists. After that, the answer is NO! As dominionism gains hold, their connotations will only get worse on the left. These are some words to avoid, and my ranking of the words that are "owned" by the right: 1. Jesus 2. religious, religion etc. 3. Church 4. Christ They all go with the "Jesus is Lord" brand. Here are words that we can hook to the "God is Love" [empowerment] brand: Freinds, activities, love, peace, fun,play,childcare etc.