davidk

Pardon my taking your words a bit too literally in regard to the way I read your initial writing of "the Illumination" and "being in the light". So many times I have found arguments built on the parsing of words and phrases in cults misusing the scripture, I was overly sensitive. Be certain there is a personal and infinite God. One who opens our eyes and illuminates our path, personally revealing his truth to us. Jesus said He is the Light and the Word and sent the Helper to guide us to Him. That aside, pluralism is still very bothersome. Mckenna responded apparently certain that all religions could be right, but no religion actually makes that claim. And likewise, assuming I understand her comment correctly, the ecumenical conversation door is shut if we insist a personal-infinite God really exists! If we encounter other faiths and do not insist by reasonable argument that a personal-infinite God really exists, we deny the truth, other faiths will not understand us and any ecumenical conversation will be useless. Once we compromise on what Christianity really is, it ceases to be Christianity. I equally despise its misuse! We, as "fallen man", are susceptable to that sort of thing. Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic religion. It eliminates the personal God, avoids dogmas and theology; it worships both the natural and spiritual, based on a sense of the experience of all things. It makes no room for the human soul or God. Hinduism has unlimited resources for unlimited gods. Islam flatly denies Jesus as Saviour and Lord. The Mormon Church teaches that there are many Gods (Book of Abraham 4:3ff), and that we can become gods and goddesses in the celestial kingdom. The Roman Catholics puts the Church between my soul and the Lord Jesus Christ, denying reading and interpreting the Scripture under the personal guidance of the Holy Spirit, declaring that guidance belongs to the Church! I could go on, but you get my drift. Understand only one religion can be true, or ALL are false, they cannot all be true. That is based on the teaching of each religion. Each of us must must make a personal decision, a reasonable decision, based on what actually is. That is why Biblical Christianity is true. It is the only one sufficient to answer our need because of what truly exists. We shouldn't withhold that truth from anyone. Oh, and to Cynthia, God IS big. He is able to be with you on the personal level, all the time, forever, and you will understand each other. He can and will satisfy your need. Trust Jesus when He said he was the only way. The Christian worldview (philosophy) answers the 3 basic universal philosophical questions adequately, sufficiently. The dilemma of "existence"; of "morals"; and how we know that we know. "Is God safe?" To which C.S. Lewis responded, "No. But He is good".

It's interesting that when I mentioned I get my understanding of Christianity from the Bible, it was somehow interpreted to mean I assume I am a Christian because I read The Scripture. Nothing could be further from the truth. But it does raise an interesting question, from where do you get your understanding of Christianity? Soma used Biblical quotations, a bit out of context, Romans was the wrong chapter, and I'm not certain of where the Philipians quote actually came from, but he did credit the Bible. “The illumination” doesn't appear in the Bible that I can find, nor can I find "being in the light". Being "in the Spirit" is only mentioned when John was at the Isle of Patmos and he was prophesying to the churches. I am not certain how this fits into your thesis. Concluding that "God is everything" is simply a common Eastern pantheistic doctrine. Not only departing from what Scipture says, but from what actually is. God created everything but He did not become everything anymore than Van Gogh became a canvass and oils. His personal character, that is to say His attributes, eternal power, and His Divine nature can be discerned from all that He created, so that we are without excuse. (Rom 1:20) Pantheism simply cannot address the unity and diversity needed to explain reality. It gives an answer for unity but not the needed diversity of existence. It leaves no room for variance since everthing is the same. There is no meaning for freedom. It is here that pantheism tries to explain it by intrdoducing cycles of this constancy likes the waves of the sea. But ultimately it offers no final solution for its final everthing is the same (equal). It leaves no meaning for morality because everything is finally equal, leaving us with situational ethics. And finally, pantheism (God is everthing) must begin with an impersonal beginning plus only energy particles and time which results in no true answers in regard to the complexity of existence or the unique personality of Man. When it comes to religions, they may all be wrong, but only one can be right. They can't all be right (Pluralism). Only one philosophy, one religion, fills the need in all of the world's thought, whether East, West, new, old, ancient, or modern. Only one fills the philosophical need of existence, of being and it's the Judeo-Christian God, personal and infinite. Because He is really there, He really exists. There is no other answer. We know Man is noble, we also know that Man can be cruel. We are all born profoundy guilty of imperfection and rebellion toward God. We need Jesus to represent us to the Father, to be spiritually reborn. As a part of the Trinity, Jesus is our personal intermediary (Savior). He will provide the personal victory by His grace. "The more we understand God’s divine outlook, the more we will be delighted, successful and victorious in our new beginning."(SOMA.) We personally have to know and believe that Jesus actually is our personal Lord and Saviour. Our behavior will then reflect our position with God, since it cannot be the reason for it. Jesus said He would send the Holy Sprit to personally guide and assist us, so "...let us be open to the Holy Spirit."(SOMA) He was sent to encourage us in the way to put our personal faith in the personal-infinite God. We do not need to invent or imagine some other internal way. We will be just as likely to get it wrong. God is giving the answer to us, and our personal integrity seems threatened? What selfishness. What kind of insult is that to God? Why continue rejecting Jesus as the personal-infinite Son of God, Saviour, Lord, Prince of Peace, bright Morning star? God really exists as our personal-infinite God from whom a personal-infinite Jesus came to save us personally from our personal-finite, imperfect, fallen state. It is infinitly reasonable. Don't try to change Jesus from who He said He was. Many are losing battles by ignoring God's truth. A believer is liberated by the Spirit of God and has inner peace, as well as peace with God.

Fascinating, Soma. Help me understand. Since my source for understanding Christianity is the Bible, we may be at odds. But here is my effort to communicate and have a dialogue, if you be willing? It is true Jesus sat with people of all sorts, but help me understand how this modeled a concept of the "unity among all religions", wasn't Jesus was quite explicit declaring He was the only path to God, "...no one comes to the Father but through Me."Jn 14:6 ? For certain God loves us, but it's unclear what you mean by "...the Divine...in everyone's eyes". Help me, did you mean that we are in any way Diety, or, that we may have the knowledge of who God is and our relationship with Him? There is a unity in all creation, as well as great diversity and complexity, and I do find only one final spiritual unity. But unity must not be sought simply for the sake of Unity. For then, wouldn't it certainly be meaningless? Jesus shows us the path to God, to understanding the spiritual unity when we face God to confess, when " ...every knee shall bow... and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord" Phil 2:10, 11. If Jesus is not interested in converting anyone, why would He say, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God"? This is talking serious conversion! A conversion from seeking answers inside an insufficient self to finding sufficient answers in the sufficiency of Christ. The real world, where our real senses relay the real world to our real brain, is definitely real. Nothing is more real than something that is already real. What is more real than real? Heaven will be real, but it cannot be more real. Heaven certainly will exclude evil, and Jesus certainly cuts throught the nonsense. But won't cutting through the nonsense likely offend? Much of what each of us may say, may well offend the other. Sometimes the more we cut through the nonsense the more offensive we may become. The offended may have even been the sinner. Being offensive does not inherently mean being the sinful agent. What is pure consciousness? Is that like pure mysticism? Jesus actually does seek us out individually and personally (after all He knows exactly who you are) and knocks, offering His gift of knowledge, peace, love and salvation. All we need do is merely accept His personal gift, personally! He will not wait forever. Thank you for allowing me to ask these questions. I realize they appear critical, perhaps they are. So, I hope we can discuss them critically. I could go on asking them. I am confused on one level by it. On another level I am more troubled. God created a reasonable universe. We should be able to reasonably understand it and discuss it without leaping to a higher, undefinable mystical level of consciousness, since our current level of consciousness is all that God requires. I hope you, or anyone else for that matter, feel moved to respond and help the discussion toward reasonable answers.