des

Well I wouldn't consider Stalin a leftist any more than I would consider Hitler a right winger. At a certain point, tyrants meet at some point at the fringes.

--des

I think there is a line between defending the right to be, vs upholding and supporting stances made by fundies. Yes, I think some of them are dangerous and some of them are so not 20th century it's not even funny-- irrational in some cases. I heard a woman today who was opposed to companies patenting human cells (I am too but for totally different reasons, though they are moral ones). She went from human cells to human life in a single jump

But it is one thing taking a stance vs irrationality and the right of free speech by someone who's views we don't like. I also don't think anything is gained and much lost by bashing anyone over the head, even metaphorically :-) (I just love putting that word here :-)).

There is also a line re: the racist stuff. I would not want to see here, for instance, arguments against gays like I did on UCC online based on the Bible. I think it creates an "unsafe"

space for gays. But if someone wants to argue the virgin birth or something I'm not too fussed.

--des

Yes, we are officially off topic. :-)

No, you didn't make me recall them. I really liked those. OTOH, do not like any Borg episodes (though think they are good) that I think Alethia mentioned.

>Wow, des, how do we like exactly the same episodes?! Or maybe my bringing them up caused you to remember them.

>>Inner Light  (i'm trying to play that darned "Ressikan flute thing" on my recorder- all I can pick out is one line!!) http://beam.to/ressikan

>That was such a great melody. Damn, I need to see that episode again!

If you want the melody this page has a no. of different variations as well as the Frere Jacques from "Lessons".

Yes Darmok at Tarnar etc. etc.

Warp field physics, huh? You want to be a starship engineer when you grow up?

--des

Well you can easily read something like the Dartmouth bible. They take out all the reduncies and begats and you have a not so fat book. Of course I read Harry Potter in a couple days, Bible should be no problem. :-)

--des

Well as for Lutheran, it would more be ECLA (some like Wisconsin synod are pretty conservative as well). Presbyterian USA is fairly progressive. There are other Presbyterian churches (like the Cumberland branch) which are quite conservative.

Also Disciples of Christ is pretty progressive.

--des

Ok you're forcing my hand. You know I really really really don't like these but here goes...

java script:add_smilie(%22:rolleyes:%22)

--des

  <---- Des is blushing!

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Yes, I heard Barak Obama discuss this. Apparently Alan Keyes said that Jesus would supprot Obama! Obama remarked that he wondered who had done the pollilng! ;-)

Mow,as a matter of fact, your comments are much in line with mine. My assertion, that Rice is not really a "real candidate", in terms of what a regular candidate would need to do to get popular support-- governor, senator, house of several years, etc. or a general in a popular war. My feelilng is that Rice was picked out as the ultimate threat to Hilllary. There was a book written to support her candidacy (where as I say, I don't think she is really seeking it at all). A woman (or man) of her background would more likely go into some type of foriegn service than to seek public office. It isn't that she doesn't have skills, but those skills wouldn't typically go towards public office and it would be very much a first.

On a different topic, I understand the Palestinian elections were held when they were due to pressure from the Bush administration. The (now minority) party wanted to wait on the election. This is due to the absurd assumption that democracy is always a good thing or better than the alternative. Hitler was voted into office initially at least, and was wildly popular, in case someone forgot! Be careful what you wish for. If there were democratic elections in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc etc. there would be no doubt many new "democratic" Islamic 'democracies". I have also heard that it is quite likely women will be worse off in Iraq than they were under Sadam Hussein. I'm quite sure things will be worse for women in Palestine as well.

--des

I think the Right can be pretty condescending toward "minorites" as well. The most obvious example was the ridiculous running of Alan Keyes against Barack Obama

in the last senate race here in Illinois.

 

As an African-American myself I can say I wouldn't vote for Condoleeza Rice under any circumstances. I find the assumption from some conservatives that I should vote for her because she is black as absurd as telling a white conservative that he should vote for Ralph Nader because he's white.

 

There is an old saying "Not everybody that's of your color is of your kind, or everybody of your kind of your color."  This does not just refer to skin color , but also to religion, sexual orientation , Political party etc..

 

 

MOW

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Of course since I think mythos is truth (or can be, of course) where does that leave me.

 

Intuitive, smart and beautiful!

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Gosh, stop it! I'm blushing already!!! :-}

--des

No Darby, I didn't mean to imply that was her sole qualifications for *any* job-- for ex. I think she is a capable (though I might not agree iwth her Sec of State-- not exactly an eency job), but that there have not been any (to my knowledge) recent successful (I mean winning the party nomination) for president who have not won elective office or were not a five star general of a popular war. Perhaps there will be an exception this time, but there are a lot of things that she has no experience with that could only be gained by elective office. (Her skills to me seem to be better applied to such fields as foriegn service, etc.)

I wasn't really being condescending, I was being flip. She is on the losing side of an administration running an unpopular war, and a key proponent of that war.

As far as the general population, I don't think that they even necessarily know she is Sec of State, or even what the Sec of State does, but they see her around as spokesperson for an unpopular administration and an unpopular war, but she is quite charming about it.

She would have to do a great deal of work to establish herself to others in some other way "to win". (I don't even think her name would ever come up for president if she were not black and female-- sort of a counter to Hillary, imo. And she has repeatedly said she does not want the job afaik.)

I think you are misreading my statement. I think you are taking the line "to win" out of the statement. "To win" one needs name recognition, and the name recognition is based on an opinion or actions of the person that are visible to the general population. For example, I thikn it is questionable that Kerry had the kind of personality or temperament that would have made it likely that he would win. I doubt John McCain, who I really like, has the temperament. Taking the word "to win" out of my statement strips it of its basic meaing.

You may be right about people on the left being condescending towards minorites on the right. I think it goes from a long line of people taking big stands against affirmitive action while being perhaps the direct recepient of it. At least this has been my feeling. I'm not sure it applies to her, as I haven't heard her make any statement pro or con.

--des

I'm not aware of any other president (at least in recent history) that would win a party nomination by basically being black and charming.

 

Des-

 

I know you might not agree with her politics, but do you really believe "black and charming" are the sum of Rice's qualifications? Google her name and qualifications....quite a resume.

 

I don't think you meant it that way, but it seems the left is sometimes condescending to a woman or minority if they serve in a conservative administration...and specifically, I think this has been done in her case.

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Pelagianism 83%

I'm not sure what all the rest of these mean.

But I was excommunicated in 817. :-o

--des

Favorite episodes (not so sure the order):

Inner Light (i'm trying to play that darned "Ressikan flute thing" on my recorder- all I can pick out is one line!!)

THe one with the aliens who speak in metaphor!!

Yesterday's Enterprise

The one I mentioned-- first episode with Traveler

Family

Parellels

Might be a couple others...

--des

Hah! That's why I asked it! On the net, whatever goes around, goes around more.

Flow you are too much! Woof Worf. :-)

--des

QUOTE(des @ Jan 23 2006, 10:35 PM)

Hey just curious, but does a dog have Buddha nature?  :-)

 

--des

 

We've done this before!!!  The well-established answer is "mu"  

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I loved the book, except for a few geeky things, like that the cyptographer could not read backward writing-- how wierd is that! I can read upside down, backward, etc writing. I think anybody who is into puzzles could. Anyway, bad history. But there are a few points that are interesting-- not that you would have to go to Dan Brown to get them, but the view of Mary M. If anyone *was* married to Jesus, it was Mary M. Of course who knows??

I liked the thing about the alternate mythology. Of course since I think mythos is truth (or can be, of course) where does that leave me. ;-)

--des

Star Trek questions (not trivia):

a. If you want to get a Vulcan to do whatever you want what do you say to him/her?

(See below)

b. If you want to get a Klingon to do whatever you want what do you say?

a. It's only logical.

b. It is the honorable thing.

Hey just curious, but does a dog have Buddha nature? :-)

--des

Oh yikes, remember the FIRST episode of STNG, and Deana's constant: "great pain, oooh ahhh". If we had kept hearing that it would have been a VERY long 7 years. I did stay with it, as much because it was Star Trek as anything. I thought year 7 was pretty miserable, as were the movies. BTW, the one episode in year one that was wonderful (but terribly acted) was the one where the traveler had them at the edge of the universe in a place where their thoughts became real. I thought it was one of the most profound episodes of the whole series. I thought the acting of the Traveler was fair, but most of the acting was very wooden. Even Patrick Stewart has come a long way.

--des

If Rice would win the party nomination, then it would be kind of a first. The only people who win nominations that have not won elected office (I am not counting vice presidents as they are "kind of" elected) are presidents of popular wars (for instance Eisenhower). She has to do with a war, but it is a very unpopular one. I'm not aware of any other president (at least in recent history) that would win a party nomination by basically being black and charming.

--des

Ok, perhaps it is better worded to say that we are equally wrong, in most cases. :-)

--des

Ok, perhaps it is better worded to say that we are equally wrong, in most cases. :-)

--des

I always tell my fundie/Evangelical (with a capital E) sister than I don't accept George W. Bush as my Lord and Savior. :-) I've wondered aloud why it is that some Evangelics have bought into the entire Conservative/ Republican party agenda hook line and sinker in a way that liberals never bought into Democratic party. (Regardless of the good that Johnson did in pushing the Civil Rights bill, he was still pretty much pushed out of office for the war in  Vietnam).

 

I agree. "Do not put your trust in human leaders."

I agree that we have to be equally challenging of Democrats as we are of Republicans.

I may be a Democrat in political perrsuasion, but political afflilation is one thing-- we can't

lose our prophetic vision by "hanging onto" either party (or the Greens for that matter).

 

--des

 

>It is tempting to support Democrats these days because the Republicans have gone so far to the Right. But we must be prophetic challengers of all politicians. And we must be there in that political arena challenging and encouraging at all times because creating heaven on earth is something we are called to do even though we know it can't be done by us, only by God.

 

Maybe we need to stop believing in a Democrat Messiah and start believing that Republican politicians can be transformed if challenged and encouraged with our love. Miracles happen.

Yes, a lot of times I don't even like the word "God". Too confining. Seems to imply something like a person in a white beard (connotation for sure, not denotation). Also a lot of people think they have God very well pegged.

--des

I was very struck, a few weeks ago, they interviewed GWB on how many noncombatant Iraqis have died and he gave a very off-hand answer "oh like about 30,000" (or something). It was very casually answered.

--des

David, you might enjoy reading Marcus Borg's "The Heart of Christianity" . He has a whole chapter on faith.

--des

Hah! Padfoot gets his own cup or bowl in the bathroom which he expects to be filled with clean cold water, if they aren't he'll knock them over. He looks so much like Aslan that I have come to call him lord-- no no not *that* Lord. :-)

Yes, I have the diety in front of me now sleeping peacefully.

--des

Well it was interesting what they did with this sexism in the movie, and it is true the older boy fought most of the battle. But some of the more key things in the movie were brought out by the youngest character (who is female). Actually I thought she did such a terrific job of acting it might have been her doing that those points became clearer.

--des