Yvonne

I can't speak specifically about the Pauli Principal, but I am a big fan of quantum mechanics. I'm no expert for sure, but it fascinates me. The more I learn about the quantum world, the deeper my faith becomes. I, too, believe wholeheartedly that everything is connected to everything else. I don't think religion and science necessarily converge, but I do think science deepens that sense of awe and wonder. Thanks for sharing this!

I ran the Pinker talk past my fundy friend who often tells me that the world is getting more and more violent, suffering more and more crime, etc.

 

Funnily enough, he now seems to have adopted the theory that in the end days the world will actually be more peaceful before Jesus comes again.

 

Seems you're damned if you do or damned if you don't!

 

Anybody heard of this theory that the world will be perhaps at peace when Jesus comes to wreak havoc?

My former fundy friends used to say that there would be a huge divide just before the "second coming". That good and evil would be much more pronounced and that there would be no middle ground - you were one or other. But never that the world would be at peace.

FWIW, I don't believe in heaven/hell or any variation thereof. Instead, I think our spirits or souls or what have you return to the Source (which I choose to name God). Because I cannot believe in total anniliation, we must, in some way retain some sort of self-awareness. If we lived our lives oblivious to the suffering ot others, if we chose NOT to love, or made "evil" (for lack of a better word) choices, I would think that we would be pretty darn uncomfortable exisiting in something that is defined by humans as "perfect love". As an inadequote example, most of us have done something we are not proud of at some point in our lives. What if that become known to everyone? The word "uncomfortable" doesn't begin to express how I would feel. Whether that makes sense or not is not the point, however. My point is, I cannot, will not, believe in a God that condemns, not give Jesus' messages.

I'm still not 100% convinced that empathy is on the rise. Yes, I agree in part with what Dutch and Joseph said, but I think some of it can be attributed to mass media, instant communication, and globlization. We are far more aware of what's going on around the planet than we have ever been. It seems there are more opportunities to be empathetic.

I have to say Dutch, that I went away and reflected on this last night. Then, as I do quite often, watched "Into the Worm Hole" on the Science channel last night. My brain must have been lit up like a Christman tree because it really was a "religious experience". Science and religion, huh, who knew?

I have to agree with PaulS. I do not think in terms of atonement, but rather of "good news". I think Jesus' purpose was to spread the good news of our connectedness with God and with one another. In doing so, imo, he threatened that domination system PaulS mentioned and he got himself in big trouble with the local domination, i.e. the ruling temple authorities. It may have been Roman soldiers there at the cross, but it was the temple authorities (NOT "the Jews") who condemned Jesus.

It seems to me that thinking of God as only feminine is just as wrong as thinking of God as only masculine.

 

 

 

Spong is right that we tend to view divine through our own eyes.

 

Steve

I don't think anyone said anything about thinking of God as only feminine. What I'm saying is that, in using imagery or even metaphorical language, that it is acceptable and even, sometimes, even preferable, to use feminine language and imagery.

Dutch,

That was wonderful! As someone who is has a religious experience watching "Nova", this really touched me and I will probably be using it in my preparation for meditation!

I have to agree with Phil, however. I'm not too sure that humanity as a whole is evolving to empathy.

At one point in my past I was associated with a group of very progressive, liberal nuns (yes, there are such!). One of them had a beautiful plague with a woman holding a child. The way the paiinting was done, it gave a sense of being brought into the world, being nurtured. The writing said "And Woman said "This is my body".

That has always touched me. I'm not one to associate a gender with God, but I think, in using imagery and symbols, it is important to keep ideas like this in mind. God brings us to life and nurtures us. Since I believe we literally "live in God", it's like a foetus lives in its mother. I love the imagery in the sacred feminine. And not just because I'm a woman! I think the imagery can be very beautiful and moving for anyone. Even in the RC church, so male dominated, Mary has very nearly become a sign of the sacred feminine. In the movie "Mists of Avalon", at the end, the priestess of the goddess temple, wihch is losing its identity in the wake of Christianity, points out that the goddess will never be forgotten as the scene depicts the nuns at the nearby abbey paying homage to Mary. I think it is vital that those who choose sacred imagery and symbols incorporate the feminine.

The book of Wisdom often describes Wisdom as "she".

Dutch, that poem/prayer really touched me.

The discussion isn't quite what I expected it would be! I'm quite surprised that as yet no other women have offered any comments.

I recently started reading a book on feminism and the bible, though the content is much broader than some of the “feminist bible study” I've encountered before. The author (whose name I can't recall) makes some excellent points about educating women in the historical role of women in ancient religions and about some of the feminine symbols that the patriarchy of the traditional church has overlooked, downplayed, twisted, or simply ignored.

There have been, and I believe still are, goddess cults (not using cult in the modern derogatory meaning). The book talks about the Shekinah or Sophia as the Wisdom of God being feminine. I have, since my 20's, always accepted Wisdom (as in God's Wisdom) begin feminine.

What are your thoughts on the Divine Feminine?

I have been silent on this thus far, but I thougth I would share this video:

http://now.msn.com/now/0428-savage-bible-speech.aspx

I don't know how long the link will be viable.

Raven,

This is a virtual hug [ ] for you. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

I made no claims of either its veracity or my own belief in it. However, these cures did not involve allergies, depression, or "minor" diseases and were examined carefully by doctors. As my niece would say "Just saying'"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lourdes_Medical_Bureau

I like to use different translations as they allow me to look at texts in different ways I'm curious about this and might have to download.

I can see some traditional & fundy churches having a field day with it!

The study guide for "Heart of Christianity" is by Borg and Scorer

Thanks for replying Raven - you sort of made my point. You said ...

right now I'm following my own, in whatever direction my heart feels stirred. Perhaps God is my spiritual director?!"

The whole point of spiritual direction, IMO, is not to shove someone on to a certain path, but to help that person on his/her own path. I respect individual paths - I am certainly on my own "God-directed" path. But at points along my path, I like to check in with someone who's "been there done that", just to see if I'm still going where I feel drawn to go. I don't want to veer off and go some place that's not going to helpful to me.

Ah shucks, I guess I'm just having a really tough time asking the right question. Maybe someone will hit on what I'm trying to say and say it better!

Cheers.

I, too, loved Borg's "Heart of Christianity" and there is a companion study guide for personal or group use. Very helpful.

A few days ago I started a post called "Talking About Religion" in which I asked if any one talked about their religion or faith with others. I clearly mistated the question because the answers weren't quite what I expected.

What I really wanted to know was if anyone had a spiritual director or was a spiritual director. Before anybody answers that, consider this quote from Spiritual Direction International:

This has nothing to do with religion per se - and it isn't about getting the "right answers". It has to do with someone helping another or a group yo grow in the awareness of God (or Source or Allah or Yahweh or The Force,,,)

I consider my dear friend a spiritual director - he taught me to open my eyes to other possibilities. I consider some posters on this forum to be spiritual directors because they know about the philosophical and theological questions I have. I feel I need a variety of spiritual directors because they offer different points of view, different experiences, different wisdom.

While I think it is good and right that we reach find our path and our answers, I think it is equally important to sort of "touch base" with others now and then. Otherwise, who's to say we haven't become rigid and close-minded on our own journey? That's why I wanted to know if anyone talks about their faith or beliefs (I wrongly throw out the word "religion"). Yes, this forum is important to me. But I always feel like I want more personal interraction - after all, we (humans) are social critters.

So, on my own journey, I like to "stop and ask directions" now and again. Do you?

On Easter Sunday I started to begin my meditation time with a new guided meditation (a script I found online and an audio I made myself). I cannot believe how GOOD I've felt all week! Not just physically, though that's part of it, but my spirirts are lifted and I feel so calm and at peace.

I'll throw in my 2 cents worth. Growing up Catholic, I was taught that any contraception was wrong for several reasons. Any attempt to stop a life already started, regardless at what stage, was considered murder (life began at conception). Using other methods was wrong because the egg and the ###### contained the potential for life (or the "seed of life") and therefore to use anything that would kill the ###### and/or render the egg sterile was considered to be wrong. Plus, as someone else mentioned, sex was only to be for procreation. Yikes. No wonder I longer consider myself RC!

That's sounds great Paul - life's simple pleasures are still the best.

As part of my prepartion for (hopefully) being ordained, I'm reading Borg's & Crossan's book "The Last Week" In it, they use the phrase "transformative journey". I can't get the phrase and what it represents out of head. Mmm, could it be this journey toward ordination? [sardonic grin]

BTW - its a really great book to use as a Holy Week meditation starter. I'm reading the day's happenings on the actual day, that is, Palm Sunday through Easter- and I can't wait for tomorrow's concluding chapter!

Tea - very well put. I'm beginning to agree.

"Faith healing", I guess, need not be an either/or thing - either it's from a supernatural God who arbitrarily (sp?) decides to heal some and not others or its a fraud. Either it can be proved and repeated scientifically or its a fraud. As Hamlet tells Horatio: "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Nice to hear from you again Wayseeker! And you took my words "right out of my mouth" so to speak.

I just finished reading "The Last Week" by Crossan and Borg, and they, too, mention sacrifice as choosing to stand for something they believe in. Was Jesus' death foreseen as in "God ordained", or inevitable given his message and the political environment at the time? But that is for another thread.

I had very little sleep last night and my "silly gene" came out to play. Its so good to be able to laugh at myself!

Sorry Norm, I gave George your kudos. Sometimes I don't hit on all cylinders. and I love that episode of Seinfeld.

Neon, true, but at the time of Jesus it seems faith healing was somewhat more common, or so I've read.

I wish my "heart" wasn't so insistent that there "must" be something to all this, because my "head" says it just isn't so! Yet many, many Christians, and I'm not talking about just fundamentalists (or even just Christians, as far as that goes) study and use both Reiki and Chakra healing. Are they all frauds and taking advantage of others? I don't think so, I think some are very well meaning. The people present when my nephew was "healed" took no money and made no extraordinary claims.