mystictrek

Christianity sure does carry a lot of baggage with it now that we have been a force on this planet for almost 2000 years. Sometimes I think that the only hope for this shrinking planet is a new spiritual synthesis of all the great wisdom traditions. When I say that, do I stop being a Christian. Should I become a Unitarian?

I just can't let go of the rituals and the great theology of Christianity at its best. I can sure let go of the worst and there is a lot of that these days as Pat Robertson reveals daily for a global audience. Why won't Disney elimate that show?

But I digress.

I use the term "The New Church for the New Age" (see my website - below) trying to promote a synthesis of Christian ideas with New Age ideas.

Something new is emerging and maybe we shouldn't call it Christianity any more.

Hey just curious, but does a dog have Buddha nature?  :-)

 

--des

It has one, it just isn't aware that it does. Which is nothing against dogs, most people don't know it either.

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But then, again, maybe they do know. Gracie is demanding a walk right now. Maybe she is reminding me of the great Zen teaching: When sitting, sit. When walking, walk. Above all, don't wobble.

Dogs don't wobble. Or do they?

I believe the correct answer about dogs having Buddha nature is: "Mu" which means Yes or No or Maybe/Maybe not. Can't be too sure about these things!!

Does Wilber believe the cosmos is maya? That everything is illusion and that we need to wake up? Did Watts believe that? I haven't read either of them.

I would think so. They both embraced Buddhism more than any other wisdom tradition.

I really like a lot of New Thought concepts and I believe they are very compatible with Progressive Christianity. I will take wisdom from anywhere I can find it and NT offers wisdom and lots of it as far as I am concerned. I stick with progressive mainline congregations because I find that they are more concerned with social issues than NT congregations. NT is too individualistic IMO.

The 2 candles on the communion table (as we Calvinists call it) have symbolized the 2 natures of Christ since ancient times: divine and human. For me, it's not much of a stretch to say that the 2 candles also stand for the 2 natures of our humanity, human and divine. St. Paul says Christ is "the first born fruits of the new humanity." Jesus says his followers will accomplish a lot more miracles. I believe we have a divine nature and a human nature and it's a mystery which NT partially explains as do the earlier forms of Christianity and the emerging forms of Christianity to use Borg's terminology. St. Paul again: "We see through a glass dimly."

I very much like theology from the East.  It is not as "wooden" as Roman Catholicism and all subsequent soteriology derived from the image of the Divine Courtroom.  But you have to be willing to take everything EO has to offer - the culture, the authority of the Church (with a big "C"), and the notion that everything the Church does is holy.  The first time I visited a parish, the priest quoted St Cyprian to me - "You cannot have God as your Father without the Church as your Mother."  I should have responded with Augustine's, "The Church, she is my mother, and she is a whore." but I bit my tongue.

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I have a very good EO priest friend. I am going to see how he responds! But not by email. I want to be there and see his response!

YES!

Welcome.

I just began a political string here called Politics Usa and a different opinion would be great. No one here would say that a PC has to be a Democrat or even a Liberal on all issues. We try to be open. We try to learn. Many of your beliefs are close to mine and a few are not. That's OK.

Are you familiar with the Perennial Philosophy which is closely linked to mysticism?

PP advocates claim there are underlying truths common to all religions. Aldous Huxley wrote a book named THE PERENNIAL PHILOSOPHY in the 40s. It is still quite relevant and inspirational and practical. So is the book by the graet American pragmatist, William James: THE VARIETIES OF RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCE now about 100 years old but still relevant and inspirational and, of course, practical.

One of my favorite columnists and one of my favorite Texans is Molly Ivins. She often speaks for me. As of today you can find a regular link to her columns at "MI" in my shortlist of links at my website (below). So, when Molly Ivins says she is giving up on the Democrats in favor of a new third party effort, my response is to sit up and listen carefully. Molly speaks for the many Americans who are getting more and more frustrated with the unwillingness of many Democrats to fight for issues which polls show are popular. These include ending the war, saving the environment, ending the big tax cuts for the rich, raising the minimum wage and creating a single-payer healthcare system.

AlterNet offers "Why Hillary Won't Save Us" by Molly Ivins > http://www.alternet.org/story/31109/ OR http://www.dfw.com/mld/startelegram/news/c...ts/molly_ivins/

I'm an Independent, and I score "centrist" on all the political party tests.

 

I vote for the candidate and not the party. I'd probably vote McCain over Hillary. (Who IS running next term anyway?) 

 

As far as the thread title, the board has a glitch that does the capitalization screw-up thingy. You'd have to put periods between the letters U.S.A. in order for it to stay capitalized.

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What is it about Hillary?

I have to admit that McCain may be exactly what this country needs. I think, once elected, he would say -- and mean it -- that he is President of all of us and not just the Right Wing or Republicans. He would do what Bush promised to do but failed to do and didn't even try -- create a much more civil and uniting atmosphere.

Sorry for starting the topic twice and posting twice. I was trying to get USA capitalized. But it came out Usa again. Maybe the webmaster could delete one of the topics and edit the topic so it would be USA and not Usa.

I think it would be great if we had an ongoing string devoted to political conversation. So, hopefully, I am getting things rolling.

I love http://pollingreport.com which tracks all kinds of opinion polls and shows long term trends on all kinds of political issues and personalities. Yesterday they posted the latest poll results on party affiliation. 36 per cent say they are Democrats. 30 per cent say they are Republicans. 22 per cent say they are Independents. 12 per cent say they identify with another party.

The Democrats have been on top for decades but the margin has steadily declined. In 2005 the Democrats regained some of their popularity but one year is not enough to discern a trend. We remain a closely divided country.

I'm not sure why Republicans have held control over Congress since 1994. Maybe more people vote Republican than admit they are Republican. More likely and backed with some evidence is that Democrats don't vote as faithfully as Republicans do. Even more likely is that Incumbents usually win whether they are Republican or Democrat. That's the main reason why Congress remained under the Democrats for most of 1930-1994 and now Republican since 1994. The rich have been supporting these Republican incumbents like never before. That helps a lot.

I do believe that the interests of average Americans are better served by Democrats than Republicans but few average Americans care enough about politics to even vote much less work for political candidates or contribute to their campaigns.

I sure would like to see the Democrats take over at least one of the houses of Congress, the Senate or the House of Representatives, in November. I think it would be good for the country to have congressional committees investigating the administration with a strong use of their subpoena powers. Maybe progressive Christians should go all out to get Democrats elected to Congress just to get this power which could bring many abuses of power to light. We don't have to sign up as Democrats for the long haul.

I think that the political conversation in this country is not very polite these days and I would blame the Left just as much as the Right for that. Progressive Christians need to challenge politicians and media personalities to be far more kind and gentle and humble.

I think a label for me would be Radical Centrist! I believe that the American Eagle needs both wings with most of the weight in the Center. Currently the weight has shifted to the Right side of Center. A course correction is needed. Centrists need to boldly challenge both parties to become civil, polite, pragmatic, and most important of all, open. We can solve our problems with a new spirit of openness. Our media is failing us by not digging very hard and not informing us very much. The dumbing down of America has really hurt all of us, really threatens the well being of the whole planet. Is this what the rich and the big global corporations want so they can run the world with little accountability? Is this how they think: Let the people with little power scream at each other why we are getting away with murder?

Thanks for noticing! Mary, my wife, baked a cake with lots of coconut. Vanilla Ice cream too. Yum. She also cooked a turkey dinner on Sunday and invited family and friends. Great Pinot Noir, too. And sweet little Emily (21 months) added more joy than I can possibly put in words. VISIT > http://www.pbase.com/abundancetrek/emily -- maybe when Pbase gets their act together again!

Today is also my Mom's 89th birthday, and my 1st ex-wife's birthday, but I forget which one.

 

 

And isn't it also MLK's real b'day ?

 

flow....

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I believe Martin Luther King, Jrs real birthday is 1/15/29.

I share my birthday with Edgar Allan Poe and Robert E. Lee. I'm not a southerner so it was never a holiday in my state.

I only have skimmed this string but I hope to get back to it when I have more time. But I was thinking that maybe a Quantum Physics idea would be helpful here: Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle which claims as a corollary I believe that the observer always changes anything that he/she is observing. There is no such thing as objectivity, only subjectivity. I am always changing things. Prayer helps me change things with more wisdom, energy, love, humility.

I am sure impressed with the many wise posts on this string and lots of other strings. Lots of wisdom here. Lots!

+ VISIT > http://www.aip.org/history/heisenberg/

+ "I believe that the existence of the classical "path" can be pregnantly formulated as follows: The "path" comes into existence only when we observe it."

--Heisenberg, in uncertainty principle paper, 1927

Those are very good points des and mystictrek.

 

This makes me think of a concept explored by Peter Gomes in one of his books.

He was talking about the temptations of Jesus in the wilderness. In one of the temptations Jesus is taken by Satan up on a hill and shown all the kingdoms of the world. Satan tells him that  "these are all mine and I will give them to you , if you worship me". Many think this is a call for Jesus to become a warlock and Satan worshipper. It is much more subtle than that. Gomes states that people of faith are often frustrated because thet don't seem to have a power that the world respects. So they start to  fantasize about all the good they could do if they only had the power.

 

I suspect that some (not all) on the Christian Right thought that if they could elect an evangelical as president, they would have a Christian with the powers of the United States presidency i.e. military might , bombs, wealth ,influence ,the media etc. The next thing you know (when you fall for this temptation) is that you're doing Satan work in the world ,spreading death, disease and destruction throughout the world.

 

  It is a subtle temptation and one that those of us on the Left must be wary of as well.

 

  MOW

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I like to think of myself as a Centrist which means that I lean to the Left currently because the country is leaning to the Right. Surveys show that about 33 per cent call themselves Conservative, 22 per cent Liberal and 45 per cent Moderate.

I think that the Left and the Right both have good ideas, even some which are wait out there on the wings. We need to examine these ideas carefully and apply those we think will work carefully. Those who would exploit good ideas, good programs, good policies, come from all parts of the political spectrum. We need a system checks and balances that works well.

Hey everyone. I'm Lee, a graduate of Boston University School of Theology. I was pursuing a Ph.D. in philosophy from U. of Nebraska when I dropped out to write fiction. I've been living in Nebraska for four years now learning to write.

 

I have written a novel and it's called "The Gospel of Arnie." It's a religious comedy; it's also a citique of the Catholic Church. I have been heavily influenced by Borg and Spong, as well as the process theologians. This was a fun book to write, and I'm trying to get the word out. I thought this would be a good place.

 

I look forward to being a part of this community.

 

Sincerely,

 

Lee

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Hi Lee. I'm a 1973 graduate of Boston University School of Theology. Harrell Beck was my mentor.

Why are you picking on the Catholics? It seems like a lot of Protestants are behaving pretty badly these days.

I always tell my fundie/Evangelical (with a capital E) sister than I don't accept George W. Bush as my Lord and Savior. :-) I've wondered aloud why it is that some Evangelics have bought into the entire Conservative/ Republican party agenda hook line and sinker in a way that liberals never bought into Democratic party. (Regardless of the good that Johnson did in pushing the Civil Rights bill, he was still pretty much pushed out of office for the war in  Vietnam).

 

I think when religion gets too close to politics it lacks it edge to ever criticise it.

 

 

--des

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I agree. "Do not put your trust in human leaders."

It is tempting to support Democrats these days because the Republicans have gone so far to the Right. But we must be prophetic challengers of all politicians. And we must be there in that political arena challenging and encouraging at all times because creating heaven on earth is something we are called to do even though we know it can't be done by us, only by God.

Maybe we need to stop believing in a Democrat Messiah and start believing that Republican politicians can be transformed if challenged and encouraged with our love. Miracles happen.

The progressive and liberal Christian movement has been big on trying to balance the conservative voice in politics with a more liberal one. I admit that I stay out of it altogether, left and right. Not to say that I don't vote. I do. I just don't know that any political candidate should be espousing a religious cause as their platform. Of course, individuals like Jim Wallis would probably disagree.

 

I hate to say that I'm a cynic and believe it's never going to change.    There is no politics without people, and most people have an ideology that is going to play a part in their politics. Even atheists have a worldview that will come into play. Think Russia and China.

 

But yeah, ideally, I wish the two could remain completely seperate. How does that happen though?

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Gandhi and Martin Luther King come to mind quickly. Like it or not, politics is an essential responsibility for people of faith. Gandhi said something like religion without politics is empty and I agree. But we bring something to politics which is subversive and mysterious and challenging. Read Jeremiah!

Evangelicals really like to claim Lewis as one of their own. I find it ironic that the conservative crowd were the ones pushing the movie so much. Darn Episcopalians! They are so universal. 

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I think CS Lewis is subversive in the best sense of that word. like Christ was subversive. like I try to be.

So, I am glad the conservative church fell for Narnia. A lot of fundamentalists may be transformed and they won't know what hit them!

The idea of sin is not something we should easily dismiss. I like the original definition of sin in the Greek -- hamartia -- it is simply missing the mark ( an archery term). Sin is falling short of the glory of God. We all do that. It helps to acknowledge that. But not if it is designed to make us feel unworthy, ashamed, guilty, no-good, helpless, unpardonable, etc.

Original sin is simply the reality that human beings are born with a predisposition to hurt ourselves and others. Before that comes the Original blessing which means we are born with a predisposition to help ourselves and others. I belive the OB is far more powerful than the OS.

I recently heard a feature on NPR regarding the Dervishes.

 

It seems that centuries of persecution by Muslims who are distrustful of mystic practices have harrassed the Sufi Dervishes to such an extent that the content of their formal whirling programs and chants has been gradually disappearing over the years. There are attempts underway to preserve what content is left and to recover and restore what is acccessable of the original rituals for future generations.

 

It makes one think about just how much of the mystic traditions in all religions have been thrown away just because that sort of connection with the spirit realm is so threatening to others who cannot make it. I believe that this is called jealousy. Very sad !

 

flow....

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READ > http://www.thefourprecepts.com/propublish/art.php?artid=73 < a short article by a modern presumably Sufi teacher.

I wonder where I fit in in Christianity. I used to be an evangelical but I dont consider myself one anymore and wonder where I fit in. I believe the Bible to be authoritative on matters of faith and life, but it is not a science book nor a history book. I do not believe that I, as a female, should be restricted in any way simply because of my gender. The Nicene Creed is a good sum of what I believe.  I believe gay people should be treated like everyone else.  I am not a Republican and I do not think politics and religion should mix anywhere near as much as some people seem to want them to.

 

So, where do I fit? Please don't put me with the fundies. I used to be one and don't want to go back.

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You are definitely one of us. Hope you stay here and enjoy the abundant feast provided.

"Good grief, reading this, even I (who like the idea) think "Cult!" However, to paint a better picture, I'd say to combine the idea of the popular Yoga retreats you see advertised in the magazines with the idea of the popular "dude ranch" retreats you see advertised in the magazines.  I swear, communal livng wouldn't HAVE to be comet-jumping, cool-aid drinking craziness!"

Aw, c'mon Cynthia. Join my cult. I need a follower!! Oops, that's my ego talking!

I have had this on my fridge for about 10 years now. To me it quite simply states what I believe all human beings are really after in this life, or at least what most of us give lip service to.

 

But after Mr. Kung started this movement and wrote this book he was summarily dismissed from his professorship at a Gernman university and relegated to direct the religious affairs of an obscure parish in Swizerland.

 

It is difficult to reconcile such a pure vision and such true words with such harsh treatment, but then exile has always been the modern version of punishment for those who refuse to fit in with the group dynamic.

 

Do you believe that this treatment of Kung by the Church was justified and fair?

 

 

 

                                                COMMON GROUND

 

" Bahai, Buddhist, Confucian, Christian, Hindu, Jain, Jew, Muslim, Shintoist, Zoroastrian, and others - we have come together in peace out of a common concern for peace.

 

As we sat down together facing the overriding issues of peace, we discovered that the things that unite us are more important than the things which divide us. We found that we share:

 

* A conviction of the fundamental unity of the human family, of the equality and dignity of all

  human beings.

 

* A sense of the sacredness of the individual person and his consciousness.

 

* A recognition that might is not right, that human power is not self-sufficient and absolute.

 

* A belief that love, compassion, unselfishness, and the forces of inner truthfulness and of the

  spirit have ultimately greater power than hate, enmity, and self-interest.

 

* A sense of obligation to stand on the side of the poor and the oppressed as against the rich and

  the oppressors.

 

* A profound hope that good will finally prevail. "

 

Excerpted from Kung, Hans. A Global Ethic. New York: Continuum, 1993, 63

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Sounds like the Good News to me. Thanks for sharing this. How I love to copy and paste and share wisdom like this.

I am not at all surprised that Progressive Christians, particularly ones who like to write on forums like this, would come out NF for the most part with some NTs. I'm INFP and have spent time and energy at INFP forums over the www years.

I checked out an ESTJ forum once. Not many posts at all and most are one-liners! There is a difference! I'm not judging ESTJs. We need them, too. But maybe not so many!!

I loved reading THE NARNIA CHRONICLES years ago and I love the movie. I think CS Lewis is one of us, a Progressive Christian. I believe the "deeper magic" is universal salvation or the abundant feast set out for all of us no strings attached. Yes, Virginia, the universe is a free lunch. Enjoy! Be glad all over! Celebrate!

I have a very smart standard poodle named "Prevenient Grace" (Gracie) who loves to run and lobbies daily to that end. She simply won't let me get away with not taking her out to the woods where she is free to run. She loves to run circles around other dogs.

Gracie is the apricot poodle at http://www.pbase.com/abundancetrek/dog_park

She hates to be left alone.