ArmadilloUCC

Our church does innnerfaith projects with other denominations. USually it is the non-politically charged ones like taking turns staffing the soup kitchen or building Habitat houses, or helping with flood relief, that sort of thing. In these task-oriented things it's much easier to put any differnces aside, because there's a big job to do for the Kingdom and we can talk about that instead of any hot-button topics. We have collaberated with people also in political areas that we might not agree with them on everything but we agree with them on one or 2 big things. Like we often see The Catholic brothers at anti-war rallies that we go to. It is difficult in other things though. Some more conservative congregations want to secede from our association because they don't like that some members of the association are Open and Affirming, and they want to distance themselves from us. It's hard to dialougue with someone who calls you an abomination.

The bible has to be read in historical context. And it also has to be read knowing which parts are symbolism. For example, the bible compares God to a mother bird looking after her chicks. Imagine what an inerrantist would do with this. If it were literally true then God is a bird, and FEMALE no less. the inerrantists's head would explode. Such inaccuracies or contradictions don't bother me or hurt my faith. There are 2 creation accounts in Genesis, and very different from each other, which many people tend to lump together like a Buffet restaurant. (take a little from this and little from that). What's important to me and my faith journey is trying to follow what Christ taught me about loving my enemies and taking care of the poor and not bragging about how perfect I am and how sinful other people are when there's a big ol' log in my eye. I have enough to work on doing this.

I'm not going to go into which sexual positions are wrong. But it's a good point about how people judge one group of people for an act that they themselves do. For example, NC still has a "crimes against nature" law on the books. In outlaws anal and oral sex for everyone. Straight or gay, married or single, men or woman. It's interesting that until recently, (US Supreme Court case Lawrence V Texas) people would point out how this is a good law because homosexuality is an abomination. And all the time it was illegal for them to get oral sex from their wives.

Billy GRaham even had one of his crusades at a MCC church.

What do we do as progressive christians to carry on? I don't know. I honestly feel I've been beat with a stick after this election. All I can do is keep going to church. Keep showing up. keep posting, keep writing letters. I worry a lot. I worry that my cousin will lose her husband in Iraq. I worry the government will take even more of my civil liberties because I am such a dangerous, evil godless sodomite (according to some). I worry the air and water quality will go bad because of bad environmental policy. I worry about a lot of things. Jesus told us not to worry. That's my sin, worrying about stuff. That's what I do that Jesus told me not to do.

There is a radio station here that is playing 24 hour christmas music already. It is not even Thanksgiving. WalMart skipped over Thanksgiving altogether and replaced Halloween candy with Christmas stuff. Fake trees, glow-in-the-dark plug-in nativy scenes with optional extra camels, inflatable snowmen, etc. Am I alone or does this drive other people crazy too? It's not even advent yet. Where's the anticipation? Ugh. It gets worse every year.

The best way to limit abortions is to make sure there is safe and abundant birth control. Including RU486 which is not an "abortion pill" in that it does not abort a pregnacy, it prevents implation. That point made, the above idea sounds logical enough.

All I want is to have the same legal rights given to everyone who gets married. There is no "gay agenda" that says a church would have to marry gays. The gay marriage issue is not about religion or christianity, it's about legal rights. I want the same legal rights given to someone who goes to Vegas and gets married by Elvis. I was married in a church. It was a christian ceremony, but it is not legal. I still do not understand why my legal rights would be such a threat to people? How am I a danger to anyone? I am a pretty boring person, really. the worst danger I pose is someone eating my cupcakes, which I burned terribly.

I know I am probably going to make a lot of people mad talking about this. I am so sad about all these states passing anti-gay-marriage bills. And how people want to make a federal amendment. They say it's to "protect marriage". Protect it from what and from who? How am I a threat to anyone's marriage ? I don't even know these people. Am a going to personally track down people I don't know and do some kind of hoodoo on them so they get a divorce? Why are people so scared of me? Why do people hate me so much that they would pass laws to make my family illegal? What have I ever done to anyone of these people? They say it's about "christian values" but lots of people get married in front of a judge or in a pagan ceremony and they have the same rights as anyone married in a church. I got my union blessed by my ministers in a christian ceremony but i have no rights at all. What I am really afraid of are the states that passed bans against what they called anything approaching or resembling marriage like civil unions or doomestic partnerships. Does this mean my partner's company can't cover me on her insurance anymore? I am just really sad and tired of being contantly beat on and used as a political symbol and whipping boy. It's getting old. And I'm getting tired Armadillo

I am not a Catholic but one of the Catholic churches here is involved in stuff that I'd call progressive. They are involved in People of Faith Against the Death Penalty, they have a farm worker union ministry, and they go to anti-war rallies. dillo

Jesus had female apostles and women in his inner circle. Why shouldn't the church be any different? It always makes me laugh when people talk about stereotypical differences between men and women as hunters and gatherers or whatever. I have seen women "gather" at store sales, and also seen them go after high-powered machines like sports cars or pickups or mitre saws. I have seen men drive sports cars, but also seen them "gather" at flea markets or used book stores. I have known women who hunt, literally for deer, and I took a class from a man who gathers, literally for a living. (He's an herbalist) People are individuals with individual talents and interests. The church shuold have women and men in all aspects of membership and leadership. Each according to her or his talent and interest. If that means having a female lead pastor and a male director of christian education, then so be it.

Hi! IT's good to be back on the boards. My computer was messed for a while. First let me thank everyone for their support and ideas, and tell everyone that the protest at the confernce went well. There were about 50 of us, holding up signs and smiling and waving at people who drove up to the church where the conference was. One guy had a little dog with a sweater on that said "ex-cat" he was a big hit, and very disarming. A friend of mine from my church is a reporter for Indymedia and he went in as a press person. He came out and told us about it. How packaged and slick their material was. I had a luagh with him about it being "power point Jesus" Armadillo

If I remember correctly, at our church, the pastors invite people to the communion table by saying "all those who profess Christ". I don't think we say "all who have been baptised". In any event, we don't "card" people at the communion rail and ask if they've been baptised. We do require baptism for membership in the congregation, but not for communion I don't think. Our church joined several others last year and held an ecumenical service where we served Communion at Gay Pride. We didn't ask if people had been baptised before we served them the elements. The whole point of us going there was to be radically inclusive. We did have a bottle of water there in case someone did want to get baptised.We didn't have any takers for the baptising. But we did have several people who took communion who sadi they had not taken it in many years and one who said they'd never taken it. I don't think the church has any business cutting people off from communion for how they vote on anything. How are they going to know anyway? Camera in the voting booth? Politics and Religion can both get really scary when they are mixed together. Our denomination does take stands on political issues like the war and the death penalty, but we vote before we endorse anything and people who don't agree can vote differently. Dillo

Hi everybody. This week my pastors got this envelope delivered to them in the church mail. Turns out it's an invitation to a breakfast by Focus on the Family about how ministry leaders can "convey the truth about homosexuality compassionately and without compromise". TRanslation-----"Love the sinner hate the sin" The breakfast is also a preview of the Love Won Out conference which is coming to town in June. Love Won Out is one of those "ex-gay" conferences where they talk about aversion therapy and praying your way out of being gay. Our pastors gave the invite to my partner and me. They said we should call about 500 of our gay pals and descend on the breakfast like locusts and overwhelm those people. I thought the image of that was very funny but it got me to thinking. What if we did go to this breakfast or the conference. What if we stood across the street and held up a banner that said "Just As I Am" or "You can come to our church now you don't need to get aversion therapied first". DO you think anyone would come over to us and talk to us? Would it do any good or have most people made up their hearts and minds? Have any of y'all done anything like that? Thanks Dillo

MzMolly, Unfortunately when people tell you to find a christian church or you'll go to hell they mean find a christian church that is exactly like theirs. If you told him you'd found my church his head would explode because we have a woman co-pastor and several gay deacons. Sometimes you just have to say "Bless your heart , don't you worry about me 'cause me and the Lord are gonna figure it out." In other words, sometimes there's no talking to people becase anything thing that does not agree with them is the Devil.........Sigh Dillo

Hi, I am UCC. It's funny that gwilhite said that we were one step below Unitarians. There is a joke that UCC stands for Unitarians Considering Christ. The UCC as a denomination is extremely liberal. We are congregationalist, however, and every individual church is different. My congregation is open and affirming, which is gay-friendly, but the other 2 UCC churches in my town are not. We don't have a heirarchy so the philosophy and tolerance can be very different from one local church to another. The UCC is very very diverse in race and orientation and background. We do have a long standing of social justice endeavors. My congregation always sends a couple members to the local peace rallys and we are part of the denomination-wide boyoctt of Mount Olive Pickles. LAst year we started a tradition of leading an ecumenical devotional service at Gay Pride. The Methodists are fabulous too, I guess the UMC would be our more organized cousin,perhaps. I live in Durham NC and both my pastors (a married couple co-pastor) came out of Duke Divinity . Also we have a lot of Duke professors at our church. Isn't Duke a Methodist school?

Hi everyone! I am a lesbian christian. I was raised southern baptist, very conservative, and was driven from the church and felt unloved and unlovable. When people talk about gay people who have prayed their way out of being homosexual all I can do is give my testimony. It tried, believe me. I prayed, prayed and prayed some more. I agonized and I cried. I tried to make myself hetero any way I could think of. It didn't work. I was so miserable trying to be someone I wasn't that I drank and had one night staands with men trying to be straight. Now I have come back to Jesus after years. MY 5 year realtionship to my partner is the most christ-like loving and helathy thing I've ever experienced. I thank God for my place in the church I am in now where I can worship and serve. Armadillo