ArmadilloUCC

Ahnk.....SAnctuary! Sanctuary! Oh,no here comes a Sandman, run or he'll make us go to carosel! Renew Renew! I like Celtic Crosses myself.

We have a local burger chain here that has "God bless America" on the cups. I don't think it really means much. As far as what Jesus would say, maybe it depends on the extent of it and what the people are peddling. I think Jesus gets more mad at TV preachers selling "annoited prayer cloths" than stuff written on the drink cups at the burger joint. I like the scene in Jesus Christ Superstar when Jesus drives all the gun peddlers and money changers and stuff out of the temple.

White Sox, Cubbies, to me it doesn't matter. I am for anyone who plays the Dang Yankees hate the Yankees BLECH!!!!!

Last time I checked, termites built really big hills. The San Antonio zoo even had fake termite mounds to make the lions feel more at home. (I don't know if the zoo still has them. This was when I was a kid.) Pat knows about as much about termites as he does about other things.

Ah yes the good ol' Phelps family. Kind of like if the Clampetts got dipped in a lake of hate-inducing acid. Rather sad, really. Dillo

Our farm is called "Sofia's Farm" after the Holy Wisdom mentioned in the Bible. Thinking of God in female imagery is not some crazy California new-age thing, the bible talks of the Holy Wisdom plus compares God to a mother eagle and a mother hen. God being Spirit is not constrained by a human body with human plumbing. I have chickens and it is very conforming to me thinking of God as being a mother hen. Our hens are very staunch defenders of their eggs. While our roosters are idiots who spend their time fighting one another and trying to "do" the hens. Who wants a rooster as a God? (-: Dillo

I am glad to see the UCC synod making a resolution about this. IT is also true that the UCC is congregational and no individual congregation has to marry gay folk if they don't want. Aside from that, I'm going to talk about gay marriage in general. My feeling is this: This whole issue is a matter of civil rights. It's not about religion. I am gay. I've HAD a church wedding. My union was blessed by 3 Presbyterian ministers. And guess what, legally that don't amount to a hill of cow flop. What I want is the piece of paper that says that I have the same civil rights as a couple who went to a JP or who went to Vegas and got married by Elvis. Churches right now can marry or not marry gay folk as they wish. And it doesn't take a church or other religious body for straight folk to get legally married. I am in favor of Vermont style civil unions. No religion involved, strictly legally contractual. Dillo

I don't know which label he'd get. I do know that his book "Soul Survivor" was EXCELLENT!!!! It really helped me come to terms with the Baptist church I grew up in. I related to how he talked about coming back to the church after being hurt by it and not understanding. It also introduced and re-introduced me to the mentors in his book and gives suggestions for reading their works. Dillo

I have a question. The article says women can be Anglican priests but there is some controvery about women being in the episcopy. what is the episcopy? Is that different than being a priest? I'm not an episcopal so I don't understand what the debate is about. Dillo

Churches get involved in politics all the time. If churches want to exclude members because of their political stance, then the church shoulld file as a PAC and pay taxes.

My my how times change. I grew up Southern Baptist and remember when it was preached that Catholics were idol worshippers. Politics make strange bedfellows indeed.

INDIGO GIRLS, folks, INDIGO GIRLS....!!!! From "Philosophy of Loss" Welcome to why the church has died In the heart of the exiled, in the Kingdom of Hate She owns the land and keeps her commands And marries herself to the State. Modern scribes in Jesus Christ, everyone is free And the doors open wide to all straight men and women But they are not open to me. And who is teaching the kids to be soldiers Marked by a plain white cross? You kill just a little to save a lot more The philosophy of Loss From "The Woods Song" What it takes to cross the Great Divide Takes more than all the courage I can muster up inside But we get to have some answers when we reach the other side The prize is always worth the rocky ride. The wood is tired and the wood is old We can make it fine if the weather holds But if the weather holds, we'll have missed the point. That's where we need to go.

Aletheia, OUCH DANG!!! I'm glad you got yourself fixed up. You need some sheep. Then you'll never have mow again, ever.!

Sure there are various scientific explanations to "explain away" biblical miracles. It doesn't make them any less miraculous. For example, if the Red Sea parted because a strong windstorm or drought exposed a series of high ground areas that the Hebrews could "island hop" their way across the Red Sea..... The miracle isn't how it happened, the miracle is that the people found their way out of slavery and to their own land, promised by God. Or, the demoniacs of Jesus's day were not possesed by demons, but were most likely epileptic or mentally ill. Healing them is still a miracle. Also, I know scientifically how my baby lambs came about, but seeing them born is still a sacred and miraculous thing. I guess I am trying to say that my faith does not depend on "proof" of biblical miracles and my knowing that the bible is full of inconsistancies does not make it any less sacred, or helpful to me. I don't buy the argument that if I don't believe literally in the Virgin Birth, or any other happening in the bible, then my belief is "watered down" and insincere and there's no basis in Christianity being valid. The all or nothing way of seeing things puts God in a box. As we UCCers are fond of saying.." God can blow the lid off any box, unfold it, and turn it into a dance floor!" Dillo

" Passages like this are just too ambigous to depend on; " Exactly my point. No doubt Mr. Allen picks passages from other texts just as ambiguous. People who like to censor things can find something objectionable in any book. MY point is that people can pick and choose a couple lines here and there out of any book to support their sides. People like Mr. Allen take books and find something they don't like, such as references to violence, or rape, or incest,or prostitution or something that might be construed as homosexual, and want to burn books. My point is that these people who want to censor things for religious reasons tend to forget that the Bible is full of the things they want to censor. Violence, or rape, or incest, or prostituion and things that might be construed as homosexual.

"Books by any gay author would have to go: Tennessee Williams, Truman Capote and Gore Vidal. Alice Walker's novel "The Color Purple" has lesbian characters." Someone should tell Mr Allen that his bill would mean banning the bible. King David declared that his love of Jonathan surpassed his love of women. Also, Ruth declared her love and devotion to Naomi in the famous words used as wedding vows by many straight people. "Where you go I will go, and where you stay, I will stay. Your people will be my people, and your God , my God"

HeyAmy, Welcome to TCPC! Ah yes, Good ol' Fred Phelps! He's done more for gay rights than HRC ever has in his own way. People see how far out he is and it makes them think about gay people and shows them how much hate is really out there. My all-time favorite response to Fred was the scene in the movie The Laramie Project when Fred protested Matt Shepherd's funeral. Some people made costumes with huge white angel wings. They then stood in between Fred and the TV cameras. All the cameras could see were those silent angels and their wings, they couldn't see Fred or his signs saying "Matt burns in hell". Fred came to my area once to protest a gay wedding at a chuch. A small group of couter-protestors stood there with signs that said "God loves everyone. Even bigots." It was funny to see people driving by and yelling at Fred through their car windows. Saying things like "Go Home!" and "You wanna tell me why I gotta tell my 4 year old son what a faggot is because you don't have anything better to do!" Anyway, my advice about Fred is to not give him too much worry. A good group of church folk with some hymn singing is more than a match for him. Maybe you could get a bullhorn and loudly pray for God to "Deliver brother Fred from his hatin' mean ugly ways and return to fellowship in the lovin' arms of Jesus!" Better yet, have a table set up and offer Communion to passersby. The people see Fred's hate next to your Christian love and openness. Armadillo

I read that That Bishop Gene said was that Jesus 's life was "unconventional." I don't know why people automatically think "unconventional" = "gay". Jesus was certainly unconventional. Wandering rabbis who buck the religious establishment and live off of charity while preaching love, and TOUCH lepers are pretty unconventional.

Thanks for the link. I learned a little about the process of getting a new Pope from reading Dan Brown's Angels and Demons. I think the process is very interesting. I grew up Baptist and now I'm UCC. 2 congregational protestant churches that supposedly have no central heirarchy, although the Baptists seem to be a lot less congregational than even when I was a kid. The UCC does have the general synod that makes policy. However the general synod and the southern baptist convention is not quite like the vatican and so I really have no idea of what it's like to have so much church power and authority in one man. I know it must be a heckova job, being the pope. Lots of responsibility. I know I wouldn't want to do it. I will pray that grieving people find peace and that transition will be smooth. Dillo

This is a very interesting post thread. I think it's interesting the part about there not being anything in faith that backs up Bin Ladin's faith. I think it doesn't matter whether there is or not. The important thing is that Bin Laden believes there is. Lots of violent murderers justified their actions with religion. Like Jim Jones. Someone could give Jim Jones a whole stack of scripture telling him it's not Christian to poison people and it wouldn't do any good. Perhaps one of his followers would figure out it's not biblical, then maybe they'd get out of that craziness. Maybe. Although the pull of a charismatic leader can be more powerful that any text or commentary.

Age----34 Location---- from Tx, now live in chatham county, NC. truly God's country work----caring for all my dogs,sheep,chickens,turkeys,ducks and mule Family---life partner and 3 kids music-- Indigo Girls,Doc Watson,Allsion KRaus,Joan Armatrading,TRacy Chapman,NAncy Griffin,Sweet Honey in the Rock,PP&M,Pete Seeger,Pearl Jam, Depeche Mode, Thompson Twins, Erasure,the Cure, U2,Beatles,Aretha Books--- The Secret Garden, Harry Potter (especially Prisoner of Azkaban), The Killer Angels/Gods and Generals/The Last Full Measure, Shelby Foote's Civil War series, TS Elliot's Old Possums Book of Practical Cats poetry,Patricia Cornwells's Scarpetta novels, Yancey's Soul Survivor. Loves--- REading, Pottery, my animals,my partner, homemade soup,homemade bread, Guiness stout,herb collecting

My bumper stickers: --- UCC symbol with "to belive is to care, to care is to do" ---- rainbow christian fish ---- Howard Dean for America (yes it's out of date, no i'm not taking it off) On my truck I have ---- a rainbow striped cowboy Stickers that I'd like to have ---- "the religious right can have my gun when they take it from my cold dead gay left-wing hands " (not very christian, but sure to raise a few eyelids) ---- "No Farms No Food" --- Irish, Scottish, and German flags --- A Civil War battlefield preservation society stickers with crossed 1860's U.S. and confederate flags ---- "Around here, stock means animals, not Wall Street" I think a couple of these I might have to make myself at StickerJunky

I don't know much. But I have read that cases of Gulf War Syndrome may have been caused by this. I tihnk if you were to read about Gulf War Syndrome you might know more. Dillo

I also think Jesus was talking about being in the wrong mindset. Lusting after other people means you aren't happy with what you have. That you aren't thankful or satisfied. It's about not having your head right, about not having your soul right. It's about chasing after transitory things that could hurt you and screw up the good life God gave you with some stupid whim, when all you need is right in front of you. I recently got some sheep so I appreciate all those metaphors about people being like sheep. I as the shepherd give the sheep all they need, good grass, grain, minerals, clean water, warm shelter. Yet, the sheep sometimes still try to get out of the fence, or they climb on things and fall off. Theydo stupid things. Lusting after people is stupid. You are ignoring what God gives you, and what's best for you, just like the sheep.This is a sin in the same way coveting is a sin.

Hi all, I once heard a lecture (I believe it was by Will Willimon) about biblical humor. He said that one explanation of the "eye of the needle" verse was that there was a geological formation called "eye of the needle". It was supposedly a very narrow treacherous mountain passage through the rocks that camels went through one by one and only with great danger and difficulty. If that's true, then the expression would have made sense to people listening to Jesus at the time. One other thing Willimon said about humor and translations. There is a parable about a landowner who has a non-bearing fig tree. The farm worker says "MAster, that tree hasn't born fruit in years. You want me to cut it down?" The master says, "No, just throw little ###### on it and let it sit. Maybe it'll grow." The actual word in the Greek was coprian (I don't know how to spell it) which is literally dung or feces but used in this way meant dung in a vulgar sense, like "######". Over the years, The bible has been translated so that word has been changed from ###### to manure to fertilizer. So sure, the parable is good with "throw some fertilizer on it", but it's a heck of a lot funnier with "######". Jesus used a lot of humor and hyperbole in his parables. It makes a lot of sense. He preached and taught to sailors and farmers and shepherds. Working-class folks.