Fastguitars

On 9/10/2021 at 2:54 PM, romansh said:

If you really cared you might do some searching for evidence

Wikipedia on the subject

When did wikipedia become the truth?

On 5/10/2021 at 11:27 AM, murmsk said:

I think we can all agree that conservative religion in general and Christianity in particular has been on the wrong side of history at virtually every crossroads.

More personal opinion pretending to be historical accuracy.

On 8/1/2021 at 7:55 AM, JosephM said:

I think to be fair we can say just as there  is evidence that people are born homosexuals ,

"it could be"....

This isn't evidence.

1 hour ago, Kellerman said:

I'm not the one trying to dictate some form of "truth" about what Christianity is to you though. 

I'm only sharing what my Church teaches as an example that Christianity isn't always a consistent monolithic message even though they use the same Bible. 

 

As i stated...

You are a product of your "church", as you are defining what you say is wrong regarding what im teaching, based on what you have been taught.

So, you are become, what you are defining me to be.

Now, i explained that i am not a denomination.   You do not hear me talking about my church or what my church says, as im not that person.

Im not what my church told me to tell you, and that is why, i only quoted what Jesus said...

"how do we know that is what Jesus said, said the skeptic"?, which is the same as me telling the Atheist,....."you can't prove that God does not exist'.

On 7/17/2021 at 8:56 AM, Kellerman said:

Tell me, where do you get your certainty as to the "facts" of God's will?

Did human beings who are equally certain of said "facts" teach you this? Because I wasn't taught by such certain, "factual" clergy. 

If you and I traded upbringings, you would probably be the one who had more vague notions of faith and I might be berating strangers on the internet that their version of faith is "factually" wrong. 

Who knows. That's one of the most fascinating parts of studying religion. The inability to separate out faith from social conditioning. 

Isn't your point of view based on what you are describing as why i have mine?

"fastguitars, you believe what you believe based on what you have been taught to believe".

Well, Kellerman, welcome to yourself, as what you believe is based on your group, and your point of view is consistent with those you classify as your "church".

As for me, im not a part of denominational thinking. 

Why is that?  Its because Christianity is not a religion, and Denominations were not created by Christ or by the Apostles.

Denominations are the work of MEN, who decided that "their opinion" was going to be the rules and regulations that defined THEIR Denomination., and so, they are defining your point of view, which you think, is you own point of view.

Not quite.

So, setting the traditions of men aside, and all the POV that create religious POV, let me just just say this...

Jesus is real.  He died on the Cross.  He came out of the Grave.   And He said that "No person comes to the Father by by ME".

If this is not true, then there is no reason not to keep believing what your particular "church" teaches, which is...>"your opinion is truth, and all truth is relative".

On 7/17/2021 at 9:50 AM, PaulS said:

I don't know where you get your definitions from, but heterosexuality (or homosexuality for that matter) has nothing to do with being committed as a sexual lifestyle but rather gay people are simply attracted to people of the opposite (and heteros to the same) sex.  It is who they are, it is not a choice.  They can be no more committed to a sexual lifestyle than you are committed to breathing air.  It is just part of them living.  

And if you understood what civil rights were you'd realize the gaps in your argument.  Civil rights - guarantees of equal social opportunities and equal protection under the law, regardless of race, religion, or other personal characteristics.

So you'll find that most of your heterosexual civil rights came about already, due to heteros being the majority group.  Minorities, such as blacks, women and gays are still trying to gain certain civil rights pertaining to them because of bigots who don't think their lives should be treated equal as others.

It's not hard really - treat everybody the same whatever their ethnicity, whatever their sex, and whatever their sexuality.  Love your neighbor as yourself, as somebody once said.

I think you're 'truth' is a little messed up.

Homosexuality is not the attraction, its the sex acts.

"Homo" = same or one.   "sexual", = type of sex you enjoy as a LIFESTYLE.

"homosexual sex" is what defines you as a homosexual.

Desiring to molest little children is another type of sexual lifestyle....so, should we believe they are "born this way" and legalize them also?

C'mon.

Did you realize that every Transgender is a homosexual?

So.....Notice that this is distinctly different than being "born black" "born a woman", "born a native American" "born a jew".

See those?   

So, the issue.....  the LIE, is when a "group" is given ethnic status based on "sexual attraction" and this is taught as "its the same as being born a "woman". "its an ethnic group".

See that LIE? 

 = Thats the media driven cultural  shell game of nonsense..    See how they had to try to legit sex acts, as "ethnic group", ????? =  so that they could  legalize the FAKE "civil rights"  of the person based on their sex life, as if this is the same as being "born black", "born a woman" "born a asian". "born a jew".

= "born this way".

Its incredibly deceptive nonsense, and some really bright people can't even realize it, because they have become media led sheep.

On 7/15/2021 at 11:19 PM, PaulS said:

Gay people don't 'pursue' being gay, they simply are gay.  Do heteros pursue a heterosexual lifestyle, or do they just live, like gay people just live?

Heterosexual, is defined as "sexual desire for the opposite sex, committed as a sexual lifestyle".

Homosexual is defined as "sexual desire for the same gender, committed as a sexual lifestyle".

Have you noticed that there are no "civil rights" given to "heterosexuality", but they are given to "homosexuals"?

So, what does that mean?  It means that civil rights are given to homosexuals, based on their sex life, as that is what defines them as "Gay".

So, how can that be the same as civil rights given to women, blacks, or an ethnic group?

A.) It can't, so, its a lie that is being  legally performed, as "gay rights", based on this lie..."born this way".

That's not a reality.   That is a Lady GaGa song that has become accepted as truth by people who are media led sheep.

However, its not truth.

On 7/15/2021 at 6:57 PM, PaulS said:

Personally, I don't think this was ever Jesus' belief but rather these are words put on his lips by later authors (and we know John was written some 50-70 years after Jesus died).  I think Jesus might have been pushing for people to repent because he thought the coming of the Kingdom of God was imminent, perhaps he even thought that he was the Son of Man who God would use to initiate the Kingdom, but I doubt Jesus ever thought he was to be a human sacrifice whose death would heal an imaginary rift between man and God.

I like to think that if Jesus had been more educated about evolution he might even consider that there is no such rift between man and God and that as humans, we are born perfectly human.  We have been evolving for some millions and millions of years.  Humankind (homo sapiens) had walked this earth for more than 160,000 years before Jesus lived.  The oldest written word that we apparently have from God came some 157,500 years after our species first appeared.  That's a long time for there to be this rift between man and God that only Jesus could fix.  And if God did 'create' the earth, he seems to have spent a lot of time waiting for man (some 14 billion years) so that this rift could then exist and he would have to sacrifice his son to himself, to fix it.

I don't think Jesus was either a fraud or a liar, I just think he was born into a Jewish religious culture that was being oppressed by a nasty foreign power and these things helped shape his view of the world and his personal understanding of God.  He probably had the best of intent - it's just how he came to think of life and God, like so many others have come to their views too.

Well, its like i just told someone else.

If Jesus didnt rise from the dead, then you have a point.

However, if He did come out of the grave, and He did..... then you have a problem that you can't solve by analyzing it, or speculating about it.

20 hours ago, Kellerman said:

 

Then it was like: hmm, okay, there's something, but I have no reliable sources to help me grasp it because they're all fundamentally human sources, which are all fundamentally flawed. So then there is no human authority to which I can turn to define divinity...and oh...yeah...that's the whole point of faith. Neato. 

 

Christianity is built on 2 situations.

1. Jesus said that He is the only way God.  John 14:6     and  offers that you can be freely restored back to relationship with God.   In Christian terms this is ..."reconciliation" or "Salvation".

2. Jesus rose from the dead proving that what He said, is true.

Now, if both of those or one of those is not true, then dont worry about it.,   Live your life in search of......

But if Jesus came out of that Grave, alive, then that's a different alternative that you can choose to ignore, but it wont be ignored once you die.

If the grave is the end, then, have fun and do what you will.

However if Jesus came out of that tomb, alive...... and He did, i can promise you this.....then, you have till the end of your days to allow God's love, which is that CROSS, to deal with your sin.

You get to choose this, and God will honor your choice after you die.

That is a promise.

On 7/14/2021 at 5:30 PM, Kellerman said:

Yeah...uh...all I said was that my church doesn't emphasize this stuff. 

So obviously, not all Christian churches promote the same teachings that you seem to dictate are "Christian". 

You said that your church does not place emphasis on Christ being the only way to God, based on the Cross.

So, if that is not the center of your church's doctrine, then can you tell us what other way or means your church teaches that a person can place faith in that will cause God to give them the new birth?  (born again)?

On 2/11/2021 at 3:19 AM, Beanieboy said:

I have yet to meet one gay person that refers to themself as leading a gay lifestyle,

"gay" lifestyle is the pursuit of homosexual sexuality, as this is the definition.

Its not "honest" to pretend that "gay lifestyle" is not strictly related to the pursuit of sexuality that is "homosexual".     Therefore , its not honest to maintain the claim that "gay civil rights" is not based on what dictates the definition of "homosexual", which is, the "gay" sexuality, and nothing more and nothing less.

1 hour ago, Kellerman said:

 

As for Christianity, well that's not a monolith either. My particular church, which is quite old and well established, not a rare fringe church, doesn't put any particular emphasis on the whole "dying on a Cross as the only means to accept you back into Himself". 

 

Well, If there is another way to God other than Christ's Blood, then You are right.

If you're not, then God is right.

It really comes down to one thing...

Jesus said that He is the only way to God, and that no man comes to God "but by Me".  John 14:6

So, that is the Cross of Christ.. which is the blood and death of Jesus....... being offered as the gift  of ="reconciliation between man and God".

Now, if Jesus is a fraud, and a liar, and not the Son of God,  and is just one more "religious icon",  then, pay no mind to what He said, and in that case, you can just keep going like this.......>"As for Christianity, well that's not a monolith either. My particular church, which is quite old and well established, not a rare fringe church, doesn't put any particular emphasis on the whole "dying on a Cross as the only means to accept you back into Himself". 

However, if Christ is telling the Truth, if He rose from the dead..... then you have  to make a different arrangement between yourself and God before you die, if you want to meet God as "Father", through Christ.... after you die.

Science is the examination of facts, pick your "scientific topic".

Religion is :  man trying to become deity, or man trying to connect with Deity, based on man's self effort. (Religion)

Christianity, is  Holy God offering the "gift" of Spiritual reconciliation to Himself, by dying on a Cross as the only means to accept you back into Himself as "born again" Spiritually.   John 14:6