overcast

I was pure intellect in my 20s. Someone invited to a new age meditation group. I had an emotional awakening followed by a spiritual awakening. They are related. Emotional repression can be related to spiritual repression. It's interesting that when the spirit moved, all the symbols and ideas and rituals of my inherited faith came to life.

 

It's like, how do you teach someone to act passionately toward a woman? A gesture here, a a word here, a touch here. No! None of that is going to make sense until you FEEL passionate.

o.k. I am very anti-spiritual. All the benefits of spirituality can be obtained in other ways IMO. Spirituality is usually harmless, but it can also cause serious damage to society and individuals.

Hi Overcast,

 

I'm a little bit confused because I've only ever come across the term 'revealed religion/truth' in relation to 'revealed theology vs natural theology.'

 

All religions evolve within their cultures with the passage of time.

That's true. When I posted this question, I was trying to understand if PC is a type of Christianity or something else. Most Christian denominations perceive the goal to be following Jesus, but they disagree about what Jesus taught. Theoretically, that should disallow Christians from knowingly making up their beliefs to suit their fancies (although in practice that is what probably happens throughout history - Christians wish something is true and then they get a "sign from God" telling them that this somethis is true).

1. Independent Pentecostal

2. Active meditation (tai chi sequences /yoga asanas), mindfulness meditation, prayer, witchcraft using breath, giving, engaging with music ie praise and worship.

3. I must keep them private.

Thanks, Azvanna, that is an interesting mix.

Thanks for the replies.

 

A few years ago, I saw a light in a dream that I understood to be Jesus along with other ideas about salvation, forgiveness, etc.

- my imagination?

- some other creator that I mistakenly associated with Jesus due to similar character traits?

 

Other things besides the dream make me wonder about Jesus too. The problem is that Christianity seems to be nothing special.

 

Oh well, I'm a bit jaded now anyway.

My impression is that Progressive Christianity is mostly a label rather than an actual organization or community. So that impression leads me to ask - why the name? Most Christians would not accept PC as a form of Christianity. What is the purpose of calling PC "Christianity"?

 

Here are some of my thoughts:

(1) Labeling as Christian makes PC more welcoming to Christians as they lose faith.

(2) Labeling as Christian makes PC more acceptable to friends and family who are still Christian.

(3) Labeling as Christian made more sense in PC's earlier days and simply continues through inertia.

(4) Labeling as Christian is sensible because PCs go to Christian churches, value Christian morality, etc.

(5) Labeling as Christian is sensible because PCs believe that Christ is a spiritual reality of some kind.

Thanks, soma

I'm feeling a bit jaded lately about spirituality, but those are good observations IMO.

Like the word 'God', I think the word 'Spiritual' can be loaded too. That is to say, like Joseph discusses, being spiritual could fit anywhere on a 1 to 100 scale. I think there can be spritual people (like me) who are atheist yet leave a little crack open for the possibility that there is something 'behind' their life and that perhaps they do have a spirit as well as their mind, right through to a spiritual person who may believe they communicate with the 'other side" etc. Perhaps somewhere in the middle are people who believe there is a God but which/who is nothing like the Bible God, and they might feel they have some connection or purpose relating to this God/force/entity.

 

I think I am starting to get used to the fact that I am none the wiser about any of this for my nearly 47 years on this planet, and perhaps may never 'know' the answer. I am becoming more comfortable with the uncertainty of it all.

Thanks, Paul. The whole "spiritual" thing is hard for me to understand. As you say, it seems to mean different things to different people.

My beliefs are really not all that important and i doubt just stating them in a thread would do another any good. After all they are just opinions/views.

 

For me, what is important is there is no riddle to solve. My questions have disappeared with an inward knowing that i am complete already and connected to the whole. There is a discernment of presence, peace and Love that emanates from what i perceive as the substrate that sustains me and am convinced through personal experience that it is in and through all people and things. Kind of like being hid in Christ which is not a man but a word (anointing) that signifies the smearing together in one of the created and the creator. And in all of this i (the created) am just an ordinary man who will perish with the using and i am okay with that because I am not that.

 

Joseph

Thanks I may know what you're talking about (possibly). I had a dream that seemed to have a similar message.

 

My problem is that I have isolated memories sprinkled over many decades of my life, and they are like puzzle pieces - except they don't seem to be from the same puzzle (psychosis, psi, Christianity, Hinduism, magic, ... ?) So mostly I shug my shoulders and call myself an atheist, because I like atheism. On a practical level, all of us are atheists, because atheism, naturalism, science, and modern lifestyles are all related IMO.

Thanks, Joseph. If you have a thread where you described your beliefs, I would be curiuos.

 

I finally accepted that my psychotic memories were incorrect in October. Prior to that, certain topics would trigger disturbing memories, and I would feel trapped between common sense and what I remembered happening. Common sense finally triumphed in October.

 

So religion and supernatural is like reopening a can of worms for me. But there are loose ends that I can't explain. The problem is that my experiences don't match any psychological or religious hypothesis that I've heard. I don't know how to solve the riddle and I'm tired and jaded now.

It seems to me that "spiritual people" are more interested in subjective feelings instead of objective truth? They evaluate ideas based on their ability to inspire rather than their ability to explain facts? They follow practices because they make them feel better rather than because they think they serve a greater purpose?

 

It's like the difference between a book of poetry and a science textbook.

I have noticed that many "spiritual" people believe the same things that atheists believe. Do any of you have ideas about what personality traits make people interested in "spiritual" ideas, practices, etc.?

 

Personally, I'm not "spiritual", and I don't understand what motivates "spiritual" people. I'm only interested in talking to a real God, learning my real purpose, etc. Evidence has always been very important to me. I have a few experiences that don't fit neatly into reality or psychosis. Those loose ends bug me.

 

"Spiritual" people seem to have different motivations that puzzle me.

Thanks, Bobbie0312

Even though I grew up as an Episcopalian, I was not aware of the high and low church until recently. My hometown only had one Episcopal church. I assume it was high church, but I'm only guessing. Shows how much I know about church I guess.

It's interesting that the Anglican Catholic Church formed in response to the Episcopalians revising the Book of Common Prayer in 1977. I was 11 years old at that time, but apparently that is one of the reasons my family stopped going to church.

 

Here is something interesting you might not have heard about - Baptist Churches with Anglican liturgies

Sunday mornings at All Souls Charlottesville are fairly common for an Anglican congregation.

 

The Book of Common Prayer and the Revised Common Lectionary are standard, creeds are spoken together, the Eucharist is the central focus of the liturgy and the minister blesses the congregation before it scatters back into the world.

 

But the Charlottesville, Va., congregation isn’t an Episcopal church. It’s Baptist — in fact it’s a plant of the Baptist General Association of Virginia and is celebrating its fifth anniversary in 2014.

http://baptistnews.com/ministry/congregations/item/28506-va-church-is-anglican-leaning-but-fully-baptist

My Orthodox priest used to have a easy answer to tough questions - "it's a mystery"

I like the way Buddhists bow to each other (in acknowledgement that God exists in everybody I suppose?).

Thank you for your post Overcast. I do appreciate it. I have scoped out most of the nearby Orthodox Churches and I have settled on an Anglican Catholic church that I will probably visit a few times and might even join.

I hadn't heard of that denomination, but it sounds like a good one.

I don't attend church, but I meditate more than once everyday, am studying the Christian Mystics and have found yoga to be beneficial on many levels. I attended Catholic school until I was a junior in High School and got kick out. My parents kick me out of the house the same year and disowned me, which was great because the universe opened up its heart. I feel the 60's, civil rights and the Vietnam war made many people in the world choose a side. I am attracted to the philosophy of every religion and science which opened my mind, but I have accepted the label of Christian as my faith even if many Christians say I am a heathen. I reply is I am only a thorn in the crown.

Thanks, Soma I need to start meditating again. I haven't for about a year. I think I will do it this morning

None presently. But I was Episcopalian 20 years ago - that only lasted six years, but I will probably go back to an Anglican church of some kind. I had visited an Anglican Catholic church around the early 90s - will probably go back there. They are traditionalists, but they have the old liturgy that I like.

 

I did visit a congregational church last year that was supposed to be liberal, but it didn't do a thing for me. I seem to get most out of a celebration of communion with candles, incense, statues, pictures, etc..that kind of a service.

 

I would consider going into the Orthdox Church if it wasn't so ethnic.

 

As to the other question, I keep my beliefs private, unless the person asking is someone I trust.

If you visit Orthodox churches, the Americanized branches are: Anticochian, OCA (Orthodox Church in America), and sometimes GOCA (Greek). I went to a Serbian church that was mostly Americanized, so it seems to depend on the parish. Also, Orthodox Easter is a week later than normal Easter this year. It's an interesting service, because our church used to give everybody an Easter egg at the end. Then you kiss everybody and say "Christ is risen" and the other person says "Indeed he is risen". I could do without the kissing.

 

Of course I'm not recommending Orthodox - other than the novelty. They can be pretty strict and superstitious.

 

EDIT: Also, Orthodox tend to be indifferent to visitors, so a guest can feel unwelcome and confused about the procedure. If you want to try one, then you could get instructions on the customs from a forum. This is the most active one that I have found, and most of the members seem to be American converts ( http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/ )

 

Episcopalian is the most progressive of course IMO.

If you use the link i gave you fill in state box with state such as "Florida" and User type with the option "Church" then click "search now" For me that resulted in 30 churches registered for Florida. Click on view for any of the names listed below on that page for more detailed data.

Thanks, I gave that a try and it brought-up some results. I live in a small community, so nothing was near me. But that's o.k., because I feel most religious when my cat is kneeding my stomach just before I go to sleep at night

Hi, Deva, small world! I remember you from my stint at the ex-Christian forum. I hope you find a denomination that works.

PaulS, that sounds very similar to my experience. Many people say religion is harmless if it is kept to yourself, but that overlooks the harm that religion does to the believer. My mother and brother and sister and their families are still Christian. Their beliefs seem harmless enough, but sometimes I worry that these beliefs could cause trouble later. A person doesn't even need to be a Christian to be harmed by residual indoctrination. Currently, I pretend to be a disaffected Christian, because my mother would be worried about me going to hell otherwise. Sometimes I feel that I should help them all become atheists, to reduce the risk that any of them will ever experience anything like I experienced. But I don't want to create a mess.

 

This also brings up the issue of whether mild Christianity is really harmless. Some atheists believe that mild Christianity makes it harder to eliminate strong Christianity. Also I don't think mild Christianity is harmless. I was raised as an Episcopalian (which is mild), but it has been a problem throughout my life - even when I lost faith. That is an issue for Progressive Christianity to consider IMO.

Thanks, JosephM. Out of curiosity, I tried to query for churches in my area, but I couldn't find anything within 500 miles? I must not be using the form correctly. It doesn't matter though. Are UU (Universalist Unitarians) considered Progressive Christians?

1. No particular denomination. Attend a Baptist church when my grandkids are performing. No regular attendance but will attend any when the option is presented and convenient. Find most church attendance make me cringe when listening to sermons.

2. volunteer, financial support to orphans , needy .and aging, meditation and consider all of life a prayer including breathing.

3. mostly private unless asked with the exception of this forum.

Is that fairly typical? I was imagining Progressive Christianity as more of a group activity with its own congregations and so forth. That is probably wrong.

Having suffered depression and anxiety myself in my 40's, I can only imagine how turbulent your psychotic experience must have been and how perhaps well-intentioned family may have made it alot worse. During my expereince I was told that it was "God's way of calling me back". I would suggest that is not the best advice to offer somebody suffering a mental illness!

PaulS, I can relate to the depression. Hopefully you got it under control, because I know it sucks. The tendency in traditional Christianity to treat mental illness spiritually is bad. In my case, I suspect that I never would have become psychotic if I had fully debunked my Christianity, but I'm not sure. Luckily I got better over a period of months without any psychiatric help. I have read that people who are treated with anti-psychotics are more likely to have a second episode, so it worked out for the best. I don't think it will ever happen again now that I'm an atheist.

Thanks, PaulS, that sounds similar to my situation in some ways. I'm 48, and I lost faith gradually in college, but Christianity has been a problem throughout my life. I considered myself an atheist, but I allowed for the possibility that Christianity was true - even though I had no personal evidence. Everybody else in my family was Christian. Then, I had my first and only psychotic episode a few years ago, and I think the residual Christianity in my life combined with the devout Christianity of my family to make the experience far worse than it needed to be. Looking at the brightside, I think that bad experience finally cured me of religion forever. It feels good to not believe at all.

Thanks, PaulS

 

As for me, I attended Catholic services on Saturday evenings with my mother earlier this year. Communion bothers me, and, being non-Catholic, I would never be expected to participate. I have been trying to find ways to respect my family's Christian beliefs and maintain some ambiguity about my disbelief. Unfortunately, I joined a Catholic forum to learn the customs, and I was shocked to learn what Catholics actually believe. I imagined Catholics would be more open-minded. Also, I began to feel uncomfortable among all those devout Catholics at church. So I gave up that idea.