NiteWatchman

Rom, I find that the more I learn, the more I realize how little I know.

I like that quote.

I think no one takes this passage too seriously because no one really knows what it means! I asked the same question many years ago, and never really got an answer that completely satisfied the question. BUT since you read something in the Bible that caused you to fear, perhaps it would be better to read something from the Bible that encourages you not to fear. I wouldn’t normally make such a recommendation because it seems rather odd for ME to be quoting the Bible. (LOL) but in this case it seems appropriate. “For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear…” (Partial) Romans 8:15 My personal belief is...IF there is a Creator God that is infinite, all-powerful, and all-knowing, then what could I (finite and limited) ever do that could ever be considered a “sin” against such a being? It’s simply NOT possible! To think otherwise is conceit; to put myself on the same level as an almighty God.

Thank you soma. I'm a big fan of Brave New World so I recognize soma as being, "All of the benefits of Christianity and alcohol without their defects." You have given me two new things to Google; M theory, and Unitive Theory.

As a professed agnostic\atheist, I've had many evangelicals try to argue and debate me. They usually always quote one sentence or another from the Bible as if that is something I haven't heard or read before. My experience is that very few Christians actually read the Bible (other than maybe a few key chapters and verses), and even fewer know of the origins and history of the Bible. I used to think that any normal rational sane person would consider changing their views once presented with the facts. Now I'm convinced that change is too difficult for most people. Critically examining their religious beliefs is nearly impossible for the vast majority of people. For me, it’s more natural to examine my beliefs, because I’ve been doing it almost my whole life. It’s easier to stay content in the blissful ignorance of doing the same things, and believing the same things. As a child I was taught that the Bible was something to be revered, as if it were some magical tome. I never saw my parents reading the Bible (other than as directed Sunday mornings at church), but we always had a Bible proudly on display somewhere in the living room. To this day, my mother says that she believes in the Bible because no one has ever been able to destroy it, although many have tried. I don’t know where she got her revisionist history lesson from but that’s obviously not true, but even if it were true then using that same standard would mean that ANYTHING written that has survived the test of time and has been cherished generation after generation should be treated as “divinely inspired.” Perhaps we should start quoting chapter and verse of L. Frank Baum’s “The Wonderful Wizard of Oz” as divinely inspired? I feel your pain, but we must face the facts; you and I are NOT going to change the hearts and minds of those so firmly entrenched in a literal interpretation of the Bible that they refuse to even entertain any other concept. I’m just grateful to have found that there are some Christians who see the Bible for what it is. It is those who are seeking to reconcile critical thought with spiritual faith that are receptive to the message that the Bible is filled with a lot of good stuff and SOME of it actually happened.

Thanks for the welcome, Joseph. I think that the only "sin" is to sin against our fellow human, so YES, getting beyond the belief and to action seems to be what every moral story or religion is really all about.

Paul, No worries about hijacking anything. I enjoyed reading your post. Sounds like we've both had some rather similar experiences. I was raised in a very strict denomination of Christianity that taught that EVERY other religion and even every other Christian denomination was "wrong" and therefore "those" people were all going to hell. WOW!?!? Really??? The church that I was raised in thought the Boys Scouts of America was too radical because of their inclusion of other religions, so they had their own version of scouting. I remember as a kid being asked to come up with a Bible lesson for my peers in that scouting group. I must have been 8? or 10? year-old? I used a road map, pointed to a city on the map, pointed to all of the major roads that lead into the city and compared that to Heaven; saying that there are many roads to choose from but they all lead to the same destination, like the many roads that lead to "God." I got in so much trouble for that! Because I dared suggest that one little denomination of Christianity wasn't the ONLY way to God, I got kicked out of their scouting program. LOL I cannot explain why, but I've always had this desire to truly understand "God." I rejected my parent's religion at the age of 13. I researched, studied, dabbled in many spiritual and religious beliefs since then. I've studied WICCA for a time, I was also a member of a "New Age" spirituality meditation group for awhile. I've even had a Saul/Paul falling off his donkey, road to Damascas, born again experience in a modern worship music, Holy Ghost, Holy-roller, tounge-speaking, radical Christian church! I can say without a doubt that all of my studies and all of my experiences had "something" there but was missing something, too. I can't really put into words what that something is. Hence, why I identify with agnostic. There may be "something." There might be "something." There seems like there should be "something." But I'm pretty sure that whatever that something is goes beyond description. Our religions are merely our best attempts at describing that something. There is no empirical proof for the existance of that "something." Therefore, I identify with atheism. Not because I can say without a doubt that there is no "God." I'm just pretty sure that there is no ONE religion, or philosophy that has ALL of the answers. I reject the anthropomorphic view of God that most traditional teachings tend to promote. The multitude of descriptions of God and the multitude of different Gods that humanity has created over time are merely ways to tell a moral story, or describe that "something." I've only seen one of John Spong's videos on YouTube, but what he said in that video was pretty much exactly what I've been thinking for many years now. You mentioned his view that, "there is something that makes all life try to 'live'. Maybe that is God?" BINGO! I think that is what I've been trying to put into words. I think I need to watch more of his videos or maybe read some of what he has written. Sorry! Probably WAY TOO DEEP for an introduction. LOL

Hello. I'm new to your forum. I sought out this site because I saw a video with John Spong and was impressed with his message. If there is a god/deity/life source then Bishop Sprong's comments seemed to hit the nail on the head. I believe that the traditional teachings of Christianity that I was force fed as a child are not accurate. If there is a god, then he/she/it has to be much bigger than any one of the boxes that the world's religions have limited our understanding. On a side note. I'm not here to debate the existence or non-existence of god. I'm certain that the god I was taught to believe in for so many years does not exist. The important issue is not whether one believes in god/Jesus, but rather how to live a life of compassion, kindness, charity, and love like Jesus. I think that is what's missing from most of Christianity today; they focus on believing in Jesus rather than teaching to live like him. It doesn't matter if Jesus existed or not, the calling is to live life with a higher degree of self-actualization. I'm looking forward to conversing with intelligent thinking Christians, rather than the irrational lot that normally preach and quote their book to me. Lol.