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Thanks Juanster! I started reading it. You can find it HERE NORM

Ending poverty is hard work. Condemning behavior that you know for certain you would never be "guilty" of yourself is easy. NORM

I've always been inspired by the lyrics found in U2 songs: NORM

You don't know how happy it makes me to see someone other than me making this point on a "religious" forum! Too often on fora such as this, Christians will compare homosexuality with thievery, alcoholism, debauchery, etc., in an attempt to show that they are not opposed to homosexuality, per se, just "homosexual acts." This frosts me to no end. This issue is particularly personal for me because a young man who was drummed out of a church I attended (using those same arguments), consequently took his own life. I was one of the people to find his body. The image - and the shame of being a member of that church - is forever burned into my mind. NORM

Good Evening Mr. Muir, I too am a Deist, and you make some very good points. However, many on this forum have embraced the philosophy of Jesus as described in the Christian Bible. This man taught benevolence and charity to the poor, shunned wealth and broke societal barriers that tended to divide humankind into categories of worth. I truly believe that were he alive today, he would be in favor of our social welfare programs (as flawed as they are), championing the rights of the dispossessed, such as homosexuals (not all choose their orientation just as you, sir, did not choose your heterosexuality). BTW, prison encounters are rape and not homosexual "love." Jesus said that to whom much is given, much is required. Many in the progressive camp interpret this as a suggestion that those to whom the fates have been kind (and, let's not kid anyone - people gain great wealth by luck, circumstance or conniving. Rarely is it merely the reward for hard work. If this were true, there would be millionaire coal miners. I appreciate the fact that you came over to America with a dream and a vision and worked hard to get to where you are. Let's celebrate the progressiveness of our founders who radically rebelled against the monarchists to forge a nation based on idealism and faith in the human spirit in order to provide a place where you could achieve your dream. Shalom. NORM

Prior to reading Bishop Spong's book Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism, I had pretty much consigned the Bible to a dusty, old bookshelf where I kept my dog-eared copy of Bonfire of the Vanities - it seemed just as irrelevant to my life. Now I read the Bible just as you describe - as a glimpse of a people struggling to understand their world. They got many things wrong, but they got some things right. However we came to behold the story of Jesus - myth or history - matters less than WHAT it says about the human condition. LOL! Road rage! That's a terrific way of putting it. Me too. NORM

I certainly hope so. I've been inspired by much of Bishop Spong's books devoted to inspiring a non-theistic form of Christianity. For me, the story of Jesus coming to the defense of the woman about to be stoned is a heroic tale worthy of my attention. Where is that revolutionary Jesus today? I am looking forward to participating in this forum. I tried in vain to begin conversations in a forum called Theology Web on subjects such as homosexuality or non-theistic forms of Christianity only to be shouted and flamed by conservative, childish people who's sole purpose seemed to be score brownie points with other like-minded bigots. It has become overrun by intellectual babies and I've since given up on it. NORM

Heh, makes me wish I were part of the "old" forum! I agree with you 100% As long as Christians, Jews and Muslims worship the Bible, there is absolutely no chance of evolution to a humanitarian Christianity, Islam or Judaism. For a number of years, I was a member of a minyan with three atheists, four orthodox, three reformed and one agnostic (myself). We could only achieve any kind of agreement when we abandoned the Tanakh and focused instead on writings found in the Talmud. Eventually, the orthodox got tired of rending their clothing at every meeting. They shook the dust of secularism from their shoes and moved to Israel. Last I heard they were trying to settle in the contested areas. NORM

I think the issue of sexual orientation is a defining moment in the Church today. So far, I think the Church as a whole is failing miserably. Hell, there are still churches that won't even allow women full participation in anything other than the education of children (and the women who do invariable affirm the patriarchal, homophobic vision of Christianity). I am encouraged by what I read and hear of progressive churches who embrace all members of the human community. I hate to be pessimistic, but I think it too little too late. The rest of the world has passed by leaving the Church in the dust. It's no surprise that the only churches that appear to be growing are those that stubbornly refuse to evolve. I hope that I am wrong (and is part of the reason for joining this forum) and that the Christian Church can evolve past our historic prejudices. I've always imagined that the Jesus described in legend was a reformer and radical element of change. That's the Jesus I wish to follow. NORM

The Ocean Cannot Contain Me.