GeorgeW

I don't have my Five Gospels at hand to check. George, do you have yours? Did JS give them Red on the Sermon?

Now that I have permission to reference a concordance , the Five Gospels has this colored black (the consensus is Jesus didn't say it). They say that this, "reflects a controversy in the early Christian community over whether the Law was still binding on Christians. Matthew's position is that the most trivial regulation . . . must be observed."

My other go-to source for all thing NT (The Early Christian Reader), points out the the "do not think" phrase suggests that the author knows of some who do think that Jesus came to abolish the law.

George

Ron,

Without reference to some authoritative source, I would not be able to give a worthwhile answer as to whether he really said it, whether the English translation is representative, or what he meant. Hopefully, others can be more illuminative.

However, looking at the context and the following verses, he seems to me to be advocating going beyond the letter of the law and practicing the spirit of the law which sets a much higher standard.

George

There seems to be an implicit argument by the NRA and their supporters that American society is in inherently more violent than other societies in the developed world.

They then propose that because of this violent nature, guns should be freely available and unrestricted. If we were to accept this premise (Americans are inherently violent), then I think it is even more reason to control guns. Is it logical to give a group that is prone to violence dangerous instruments in which to exercise their violent nature?

George

The article doesn't specify what it means by democracy or support for democracy. It's often a rather vague concept. Is it the practice of voting for governments or a broader idea involving liberal values?

I think that democracy means that the ultimate sovereignty rests with the people. The form it takes can vary greatly from society to society.

George

Congratulations and happy New Year!

George

Kay, Welcome. Your story is not unusual among the members here. I hope you will join the discussions.

George

I think I have read that there is no evidence (at least strong evidence) that violent films have a causative effect on actual violent behavior. However, it seems reasonable to think that there would be some relationship between a culture that loves violence in its entertainment and is also violent in its behavior.

However, I don't think banning violent films is the answer and would violate free-speech rights. However, somehow, in my opinion, our culture needs to change such that we would not be so interested in violence on the screen and violence on the street. How to induce a change, I have no idea.

I also agree that this is an NRA red herring to distract attention away from gun control.

George

What can we do personally? First, we can practice what we preach in our lives. We can not practice violence. We can avoid violent language. We can not patronize violent films. Second, we can practice political activism in support of reasonable gun laws and mental health services.

George

Dusk, I think community is one of the most significant features of religion. It has been noted that people typically are first attracted to a church because of social connections, then they later embrace the theology.

George

I find it curious that as JosephM says, a literal reading of the teachings of Jesus would lead you to accept a pacifist view of Jesus' teachings yet most biblical literalists seem to be very pro war.

More evidence that our worldview informs our theology, not the reverse. We can conveniently select passages from the Bible to support our views, overlook others that might challenge it and interpret others as needed.

George

Maybe it’s time for me to leave.

Rivanna, Please don't.

George

Ron,

I am glad you finished it. It is a powerful story that many can identify with but on another level. It is one thing just to lose friends, but to lose one's livelihood and status as well must be a most difficult experience. But, he showed the courage of his convictions.

The scene at the gay church in San Francisco was particularly moving. And, I loved the section where he and his wife were casting the devil out of each other. The guy has a good sense of humor and a lot charisma.

George

I would say a Christian is someone whose theology or philosophy is centered on Jesus.

George

It is my understanding that the Quakers have a long history of practicing non-violent resistance.

Yes, I think pacifism does have a long history in Christianity beginning with its founder. Constantine helped take it in another direction. In fact, I think if one isolated what is written about Jesus from the rest of the Bible, it would be hard to argue for militarism or violence under any circumstance.

George

James, welcome. We usually ask new members to introduce themselves in the "Introduce Yourself" thread.

Yes, the authors are unknown, but it is convenient to refer to them by the titles of the books. "The anonymous author of the book that tradition has attributed to Mark says . . . " gets a little unwieldy the second or third time it is used.

George

This week on the NPR radio show "This American Life," there is a rerun of a program aired several years ago about the fall from grace of a prominent evangelical preacher - but not for the usual reasons (I won't spoil the plot for those who would like to listen to it - but the thread title is a hint).

I remember hearing this when it first aired and found it a worthwhile re-listen.

Here is a link: http://www.thisameri...de/304/heretics

George

I yhink one will find It's ideas quite strange to most people.

Joseph, how so? Maybe you could elaborate a little.

George

I think giving up guns as a self sacrifice for a safer society is a good way to look at it.

And, for one's own safety. A gun owner is 22 times more likely to harm themself or a family member than to prevent harm.

As an example, I have a friend of a friend who is a military veteran, an ex-cop and a life-long gun nut. He recently shot himself through the hip requiring surgery and a lengthy rehab. He has also laughed about an incident at his hunting cabin in which a shot-gun accidentally went off, destroying some stuff in a cabinet. Fortunately, no one was down range when this happened. He has never cited an instance where he protected himself or his family, although he will claim that his guns help protect his family.

George

UK and others may be a good example of showing that the absence of guns , while reducing deaths by such, does not deter violent crimes.

Does the absence of guns absolutely eliminate all violent crime? Of course not, but one is 3.5 times more likely to be murdered in the US than the U.K.

George

I just don't think it takes a genius to realise that the US's higher than normal rate of firearm possession (compared to the rest of the developed world) simply must have some correlation with the US's higher than normal rate of firearm homicide (compared to the rest of the developed world).

To suggest that the high rate of gun deaths in the U.S. has nothing to do with the presence of so many guns is simply counter intuitive (never mind all the data).

Merry Christmas,

George

Grace, Welcome and merry Christmas. I am looking forward to your contribution to the discussions here.

George

PS. As you point out with Lincoln.... neither do i hunt animals or do i intentionally kill an animal bigger than a mosquito except for fishing..

I grew up with guns and hunting. Shortly after I got out of college, some friends asked me if I would like to go hunting with them. I said yes. I lined up an animal in my sights but could not pull the trigger. I thought to myself, "why in the world would I want to kill that poor creature" and put the gun down. I have not picked up a loaded gun since.

George

A minor fact loosely related to this topic. I currently reading the book "Team of Rivals" on which the movie "Lincoln" was based. (BTW, it is an excellent book, highly recommended). The author notes that Lincoln, although raised in a hunting society, would not hunt or kill any animal. The author says, "Lincoln's abhorrence of hurting another was born of more than simple compassion. He possessed extraordinary empathy."

George

Joseph, Can you cite the source of your claims in your Post #170? I have information that this is not correct regarding the rate of gun deaths in places like Wyoming.

George

For all its evils, you're still more than 3.5 more likely to be murdered in the US than you are in the UK.

And, then there are accidental deaths and suicides.

George